What else do you need byond your toolbox?

Kung Fu Wang

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Assume your toolbox already contain the following tools:

1. Punch - jab, cross, hook, uppercut, back fist, hammer fist, side punch, hay-maker, ...
2. Kick - front toe kick, front heel kick, side kick, roundhouse kick, hook kick, back kick, inside crescent kick, outside crescent kick, tornado kick, jumping double front kick, jumping crescent kick, ...
3. Knee - upward knee, horizontal knee, 45 degree knee, flying knee, ...
4. Elbow - horizontal elbow, upward elbow, downward elbow, forward elbow, backward elbow, ...
5. Lock - finger lock, wrist lock, elbow lock, shoulder lock, head lock, spine lock, knee lock, ankle lock, ...
6. Throw - single leg, double legs, hip throw, leg twist, leg spring, leg lift, leg block, foot sweep, ...
7. Footwork - forward step, backward step, side step, wheeling step, circle walking, circle running, long distance advance, long distance retreat, ...
8. Ground game - full mount, side mount, arm bar, leg bar, choke, ...

What's your reason to cross train a new MA system? For:

1. Power generation,
2. Speed training,
3. Strategy,
4. ...?

What else do you need beyond your toolbox? Your thought?
 
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Midnight-shadow

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If I already had all the things you mentioned I wouldn't feel the need to cross-train into anything else. I'm not sure I understand what you are asking if I'm honest.
 

Martial_Kumite

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This being a little confusing on what your asking, I would have to assume that one would want to cross train to deep or advanced aspects of the tools. Like training in BJJ for better grappling, or boxing of better footwork. Also, just because one has built a build house, does not mean one knows how to build a mansion.
 

Buka

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Looks like a pretty darn good tool box right there.

My reason to cross train anything would be for the experience and just plain fun.
 
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Kung Fu Wang

Kung Fu Wang

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If I already had all the things you mentioned I wouldn't feel the need to cross-train into anything else. I'm not sure I understand what you are asking if I'm honest.
Just trying to find out the reason why anybody wants to cross train a new MA system. For example when I cross trained the WC system, I did not expect to learn a new punching skill, or a new kicking skill, but to learn a new fighting strategy.

We all want to build up a good (or complete) toolbox. The number of tools in the toolbox may be a finite number. But the number of "strategy" can be an infinite number. Should "strategy" be part of the toolbox? How many "strategy" will be considered as "enough"?

The tool in the toolbox may not have that strong "style flavor". A long fist jab is no difference from a boxing jab. A preying mantis side kick is no difference from a TKD side kick. But IMO, the strategy does have strong style flavor.
 
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CB Jones

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9. Weapons preferably ones that go boom

10. A bigger boat
 

Bill Mattocks

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Assume your toolbox already contain the following tools:

1. Punch - jab, cross, hook, uppercut, back fist, hammer fist, side punch, hay-maker, ...
2. Kick - front toe kick, front heel kick, side kick, roundhouse kick, hook kick, back kick, inside crescent kick, outside crescent kick, tornado kick, jumping double front kick, jumping crescent kick, ...
3. Knee - upward knee, horizontal knee, 45 degree knee, flying knee, ...
4. Elbow - horizontal elbow, upward elbow, downward elbow, forward elbow, backward elbow, ...
5. Lock - finger lock, wrist lock, elbow lock, shoulder lock, head lock, spine lock, knee lock, ankle lock, ...
6. Throw - single leg, double legs, hip throw, leg twist, leg spring, leg lift, leg block, foot sweep, ...
7. Footwork - forward step, backward step, side step, wheeling step, circle walking, circle running, long distance advance, long distance retreat, ...
8. Ground game - full mount, side mount, arm bar, leg bar, choke, ...

What's your reason to cross train a new MA system? For:

1. Power generation,
2. Speed training,
3. Strategy,
4. ...?

What else do you need beyond your toolbox? Your thought?

That's all jutsu. There's also do. Technique versus philosophy. Method versus way.

If all I wanted to do was to learn to defend myself, Boxing would have been a good, relatively quick, choice for me.

I didn't know what I wanted more from my training when I started, but as the path began to reveal itself, I found it worth being on. For that sake alone.
 

hoshin1600

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well to continue the tool analogy, those things are just tools. being a trade man myself i love tools. i know lots of guys who own tools but have no idea how to use them. its not about the tools its about the ability to apply them. the electrician, carpenter, machinist and plumber all use a screwdriver but in different ways. each persons view of reality is different. when the person is confronted by a new environment or situation that does not conform to their known application of the tool they are lost. the machinist will not know that the screwdriver is the wrong tool for drywall screws (we have an electric driver for those) and the carpenter will not know what the heck a spinning indexer is for.
 

ST1Doppelganger

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I see things that are missing in the tool box technique wise especially in the grappling game category but personally I think adding concepts to a near complete tool box would be more beneficial.

The study of concepts such as off balancing, yielding, vital points, feints, changing levels, deflections, parrying, bobbing and weaving etc would be what would benefit someone that already has a well made tool box.

Cross training can be beneficial to practitioners simply because different arts can offer different concepts that can be beneficial to a martial artist who already has a core in a foundation art or two. Not to mention it's fun to cross train.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk
 

ST1Doppelganger

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A good teacher and training partners are the other thing needed beyond the tool box of techniques and concepts.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk
 
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Kung Fu Wang

Kung Fu Wang

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You won't survive ground game without any escapes.
If you learn a technique, you should also learn the counters, and counters for those counters. So "escape" should be part of the ground game training.

Same as how to

- block a punch,
- block a kick,
- escape and counter a lock,
- escape and counter a throw,
- ...
 

DanT

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Because I love kung fu and do nothing other than train and screw. So I train multiple styles because I have nothing better to do.
 

Balrog

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What's your reason to cross train a new MA system? For:

1. Power generation,
2. Speed training,
3. Strategy,
4. ...?

What else do you need beyond your toolbox? Your thought?
For the knowledge. I like to think of it as going to college. Taekwondo is my major. But if I get in some cross-training in aikido, for example, I'll learn about balance from a different perspective. In addition, I'll expand my arsenal of joint manipulation techniques. It's like taking an elective course to support my major and make me a more well-rounded martial artist.
 

jobo

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Assume your toolbox already contain the following tools:

1. Punch - jab, cross, hook, uppercut, back fist, hammer fist, side punch, hay-maker, ...
2. Kick - front toe kick, front heel kick, side kick, roundhouse kick, hook kick, back kick, inside crescent kick, outside crescent kick, tornado kick, jumping double front kick, jumping crescent kick, ...
3. Knee - upward knee, horizontal knee, 45 degree knee, flying knee, ...
4. Elbow - horizontal elbow, upward elbow, downward elbow, forward elbow, backward elbow, ...
5. Lock - finger lock, wrist lock, elbow lock, shoulder lock, head lock, spine lock, knee lock, ankle lock, ...
6. Throw - single leg, double legs, hip throw, leg twist, leg spring, leg lift, leg block, foot sweep, ...
7. Footwork - forward step, backward step, side step, wheeling step, circle walking, circle running, long distance advance, long distance retreat, ...
8. Ground game - full mount, side mount, arm bar, leg bar, choke, ...

What's your reason to cross train a new MA system? For:

1. Power generation,
2. Speed training,
3. Strategy,
4. ...?

What else do you need beyond your toolbox? Your thought?
the one I've found most usefull is a throat grab, grab the Adams apple like you crushing a tennis ball, squeeze and keep squeezing no matter what happens, in a short time both his hands will be fully occupied trying to get your hand off his throat, leaving you a free arm to do what you will, it is dependent on a strong grip, practise with a tennis ball
 
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Kung Fu Wang

Kung Fu Wang

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the one I've found most usefull is a throat grab, grab the Adams apple like you crushing a tennis ball, squeeze and keep squeezing no matter what happens, in a short time both his hands will be fully occupied trying to get your hand off his throat, leaving you a free arm to do what you will, it is dependent on a strong grip, practise with a tennis ball
If you have strong grip, you may not need that many tools. The tool (technique) is only the first 1/2. The ability (strength) is the other 1/2.
 

gpseymour

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Assume your toolbox already contain the following tools:

1. Punch - jab, cross, hook, uppercut, back fist, hammer fist, side punch, hay-maker, ...
2. Kick - front toe kick, front heel kick, side kick, roundhouse kick, hook kick, back kick, inside crescent kick, outside crescent kick, tornado kick, jumping double front kick, jumping crescent kick, ...
3. Knee - upward knee, horizontal knee, 45 degree knee, flying knee, ...
4. Elbow - horizontal elbow, upward elbow, downward elbow, forward elbow, backward elbow, ...
5. Lock - finger lock, wrist lock, elbow lock, shoulder lock, head lock, spine lock, knee lock, ankle lock, ...
6. Throw - single leg, double legs, hip throw, leg twist, leg spring, leg lift, leg block, foot sweep, ...
7. Footwork - forward step, backward step, side step, wheeling step, circle walking, circle running, long distance advance, long distance retreat, ...
8. Ground game - full mount, side mount, arm bar, leg bar, choke, ...

What's your reason to cross train a new MA system? For:

1. Power generation,
2. Speed training,
3. Strategy,
4. ...?

What else do you need beyond your toolbox? Your thought?
For different screwdrivers. For instance, you've put all of "throw" in a single category. But, for me, there are several categories of throws. And those aren't the same as takedowns. And no art has all the techniques, though some can contain all of them (I haven't met an effective technique that couldn't find a home in NGA, given the right practitioner, and other arts have the same capacity). If I look at the core curriculum (the "Classical techniques"), NGA only has 2 hip throws, but there are many other variations, and some I like better.

So, we can cross-train to pick up a different variation of a tool. Or a more effective version of a tool. Or just a tool from the same category that fits us better.

And sometimes it's not even about the different tools available, but about the difference in how the principles are expressed. Some of my current understanding of my NGA techniques is colored by the time I spent taking private lessons in FMA. Very different approach, which gave me some new insights.
 

gpseymour

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the one I've found most usefull is a throat grab, grab the Adams apple like you crushing a tennis ball, squeeze and keep squeezing no matter what happens, in a short time both his hands will be fully occupied trying to get your hand off his throat, leaving you a free arm to do what you will, it is dependent on a strong grip, practise with a tennis ball
I'd be surprised if that worked anywhere near as often as you suggest.
 
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Kung Fu Wang

Kung Fu Wang

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I'd be surprised if that worked anywhere near as often as you suggest.
The

- throat push,
- under chin push,
- whole face push,
- forehead push,
- side head push,
- ...

are all good contact points. It can be combined with "leg skill" such as cut, hook, spring, ... as throw.
 
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