Youth Black Belts

[TKD_Father]

I know my son is incredibly talented at TKD and exceeds every one.

You should really think about changing the last two words to "many" ;-)

Ok, maybe your right

No one can say what it takes to be a Black Belt except the people who are charged with presenting it to the individual. Each school is different.

A Grand Master has determined that my son is worthy to wear the belt of a 1st Degree. He has submitted the paperwork to have this honor recognized by the organization the school is a part of. He will be submitting my son's Kukkiwon application as well.

 

[NPTKD]

NPTKD that why I would never be waiting in your waiting room just my opinion.

That said just trying to get a conversation going!!! Maybe I could learn something from the higher black belts who humble enough to talk to a parent.

If I came across as judgmental I am sorry not my intention.

NPTKD you certainly judged me very quickly.

My point is, is that you started this threat because you have been sitting in some poor guy's waiting room thinking to yourself that " that kid doesn't deserve that black belt" or " my kid is better then that" or something along that line. You probably aren't happy with something with your childs school. So my opion stand. You are in no position to make the call. These kids spend coutless hours working toward s goal, does that not count for something? Not to say that if you show up you get the rank, but come on!

 

[NPTKD]

I'm not sure that's a valid proposition. High dan belts created the situation we have today in the US where we see nonsense like 6 year old second dans.

This is an frequent discussion on MT and I have no real answer that would be applicable to everyone, but it seems like the phrase "I know it when I see it" would apply with regard to child black belts. A black belt should look the part with clean, strong technique with a reasonable expectation of being able to apply their skills on the street against a determined attacker. For most children, the latter part just can't be true no matter how nice a side kick they can throw in the dojang.

Just my opinion.

Thats my point.... Just by sitting in a waiting area 3 days a week for a couple of months doesn't give that person the ability to make that decision. You know I have been to tournament where there wasn't enough certified refs so they would use parents! If you okay with that then... And I have also been to Poomsae seminars with international referees that couldn't even do the poomsaes that they are judging others on... Unless you do it and do it right yourself then....... get my point.

 

[NPTKD]

My son tested this past Saturday for his 1st Dan. He's 9 years old and has been attending class for 3 years. I guarantee he's deserving of his 1st Dan.

Since beginning TKD he's been in about 15 competitions and won first place in forms each time. He's gotten one third place in sparring and all others were first.

I'm not sure how you came up with your 5 requirements for a Black Belt, but I know my son is incredibly talented at TKD and exceeds every one.

Does your son need a job?

 

[TKD_Father]

And I have also been to Poomsae seminars with international referees that couldn't even do the poomsaes that they are judging others on... Unless you do it and do it right yourself then....... get my point.

I'm not sure I totally agree. Someone who knows stances, punches, blocks and movements would be able to judge someone else's abilities to do those things, even if they didn't know the Poomse.

Truly, it's not about doing the correct movements as much as it is about doing the movements correctly.

 

[TKD_Father]

Does your son need a job?

LOL , hiring?

Since there aren't any colleges that offer TKD scholarships, I'm hoping he will be able to get a job teaching evenings to support his schooling. We have about 9 years to get him ready though...

 

[dancingalone]

Thats my point.... Just by sitting in a waiting area 3 days a week for a couple of months doesn't give that person the ability to make that decision. You know I have been to tournament where there wasn't enough certified refs so they would use parents! If you okay with that then... And I have also been to Poomsae seminars with international referees that couldn't even do the poomsaes that they are judging others on... Unless you do it and do it right yourself then....... get my point.

Admittedly I'm using a low bar, but I think even a non-martial artist can tell if someone has the goods or not. You know what I'm talking about. We've all seen those youtube videos of red belts and black belts who probably should go back to square 1 and start all over again.

 

[mwd0818]

A Grand Master has determined that my son is worthy to wear the belt of a 1st Degree. He has submitted the paperwork to have this honor recognized by the organization the school is a part of. He will be submitting my son's Kukkiwon application as well.

Congratulations then.

 

[ATC]

Since there aren't any colleges that offer TKD scholarships...

There are many. Not full scholarships, but they do offer something.

 

[TKD_Father]

There are many. Not full scholarships, but they do offer something.

Now stop teasing. I checked into this last year and was told there weren't any.

Would you have a reference handy?

 

[NPTKD]

:soapbox:

 

[miguksaram]

These kids spend coutless hours working toward s goal, does that not count for something? Not to say that if you show up you get the rank, but come on!

Unfortunatlely that is the point. Many of these kids just show up. They "know" their curriculum but look like crap doing it because they rush through it or don't take time to comprehend what they are doing. The instructors tend to justify giving the belt away with differernt execuses; "He/she is better than when they first started.", "The black belt is actually the beginning, so they will now learn to refine their techniques.", trust me I've heard them all.

The hours are not countless. I'd say, the vast majority spend a total of 192-288 hours for their black belt (based on 1 hour classes 2-3 times a week for 2 years). Yes, you will get the odd man/woman out who will put in more time or who is just naturally talented and can pick up and comprehend what they are doing. However, they are few and far between.

 

[miguksaram]

There are many. Not full scholarships, but they do offer something.

Let me know which ones. I'll switch my kid back to TKD. ha.ha.ha.

 

[terryl965]

In whose eyes? Kukkiwon recognizes under 15 as a Poom, at his school he is a 1st Degree Black Belt in Tae Kwon Do. Not sure what the schools affiliation will put on his paperwork though. Have to wait a bit and see.
Ok but you said they are sending away for his KKW certificate so he is not a 1st Dan, he will be a poom just like all others nomatter what your GM says.

No he doesn't train 6 days x 2 hours per week. How many black belts reading this now do that? Every child progresses at different rates. Prior to a state tournament last year he was doing 5 days x 4 hours which included 2 hours of conditioning and 2 hours of sparring drills. He won the tourny.
I do not know any instructor that would train an eight year old 5 days a week for four hours, there bodys will break down. I know alot of the top fighters in the US and they have made the National Teams, so I find this to be not an accurate statement.

State Open, local tournaments. *Added: What difference does it make? Many Black Belts don't compete at all. Are you saying you have to compete to become a Black Belt?
Because if he is not doing the bigger tournaments he is only playing and not competing, if he was the next prodical son of TKD his GM would have him at AAU National or the USAT Juniors and getting him ready for the big jump into the 14-17 age range when he is 12. A local state run tournament with a couple of hundred people means nothing to the bigger tournament out there.

Really? Yes was just making commits about your position and what it really takes to be on top, the people that know me know I am never an *** about things and I would hate for you to think that way.

... some math and stuff about a company boss comparison which have absolutely no bearing removed...

Iy does if you son is teaching adult Self Defense application because there is not one instructor that would put that burdin on any child that was any good. You see so many people think that being able to throw a kick or a punch equals a true Black Belt, let me ask you this question on your poomsae does your son understand the many application to each said form and his he learning different variation of application. Does he understand what the law in your area say you can and cannot do within a self defense stituation? Does he know the difference and all variation of evey single kick? Does he understand how the nervous system and bone structure of the human body really work for a SD type stituation? These are the things that seperate a true BB and all others and there is not a child alive that does at the age of 9-12 so that is why we have junior BB to recognized time in but to know the student has so much more to learn.

He does Olympic style sparring and point sparring, basically whatever they offer at any tournament he can get in. He also enters ALL forms competitions, and as I said earlier, he has won them all.
But yet he is not on the curcuit for any big tournament. What org. is your school with? What was the name of the school? Just curious if the talent is there why is he not at the US Open in Florida or USAT or AAU National? These are question that should be ask of the instructor why just local small tournaments?

Trust me, I'm my son's worst critic. He has a work ethic that other's should aspire to attain. He'll finish class, get a drink and wipe off the sweat, then ask me if he can run "lines" in the Dojang. I kinda understand your concerns, and I've seen kids promoted who absolutely did not deserve the belt they are wearing, but I can say, without the "father" influence, that my son isn't one of those. EVERYONE at his school comment on just how good he is, and it's not just them. At the tournaments he attends Grand Master's remark about how well he performs.Yes - some kids should wait to get 1st Degree (Poom, Dan or whatever you want to call it), and some kids don't have to wait.

I am glad you are his worst critic, I am that way with my three, see I have been in Martial Arts for forty years and my father tought in the military for 38 years so for me too say three years is fast, I know a few things. My own three stayed at mid belt that is green stripe though Blue belt for two years learning everything and all my boys have won on the International and National levels including the USAT, AAU and the ISKA and the AOK. We have produce dmany National State Local and International Champions in both Olympic, Point and continuos point sparring.

To finish this up all I am saying is amke sure you keep him training and learning and look for the bigger tournaments to get him in the right eyes so he can grow with full potential in the sport side if that is your goal and you will need the AAU and the uSAT for that.

 

[NPTKD]

Unfortunatlely that is the point. Many of these kids just show up. They "know" their curriculum but look like crap doing it because they rush through it or don't take time to comprehend what they are doing. The instructors tend to justify giving the belt away with differernt execuses; "He/she is better than when they first started.", "The black belt is actually the beginning, so they will now learn to refine their techniques.", trust me I've heard them all.

The hours are not countless. I'd say, the vast majority spend a total of 192-288 hours for their black belt (based on 1 hour classes 2-3 times a week for 2 years). Yes, you will get the odd man/woman out who will put in more time or who is just naturally talented and can pick up and comprehend what they are doing. However, they are few and far between.

no.. right ... your wrong! But I still love ya.

 

[terryl965]

I'm not sure I totally agree. Someone who knows stances, punches, blocks and movements would be able to judge someone else's abilities to do those things, even if they didn't know the Poomse.

Truly, it's not about doing the correct movements as much as it is about doing the movements correctly.

See that is the problem so many referees do not even practice the art but yet they judge. See in the art you have to understand each movement and why it is important in the poomsae and it is not about stances and power but pocession and knowledge we are not talking about a dance rehersal but application and the meaning of them.

 

[miguksaram]

I wish I had a dollar for every parent who thought their child deserved a black belt... and just to add some fuel to the fire...

Tournament wins do not = good black belts

My oldest son competes as a black belt on the open circuit and has done so for the past two years, but was only officially ranked as a purple belt in our school when he started competing at that level. In both years he was rank #1 in the region and ranked #11 nationally. He earned brown belt last year and is finally going for his Jr. BB this August after almost 6 years in our present school and 3 years at the former TKD school we went to.

Tournament wins only equal good athletes and nothing else. It is what they do in the school that counts towards being a good black belt.

 

[terryl965]

My oldest son competes as a black belt on the open circuit and has done so for the past two years, but was only officially ranked as a purple belt in our school when he started competing at that level. In both years he was rank #1 in the region and ranked #11 nationally. He earned brown belt last year and is finally going for his Jr. BB this August after almost 6 years in our present school and 3 years at the former TKD school we went to.

Tournament wins only equal good athletes and nothing else. It is what they do in the school that counts towards being a good black belt.

So your sons like mine had about eight years of training before BB. I am so glad to hear this.

 

[miguksaram]

So your sons like mine had about eight years of training before BB. I am so glad to hear this.

Thanks. If it were up to him he would remain a brown belt. The Jr. BB test is killer about 2-3 hours. ha.ha.ha.ha Plus he will have to retest for his adult black belt when he turns 16 and that one is 4-6 hours.

In the TKD school, he was progressing too quickly. He was good but I didn't feel he should have been at the level he was promoted to. I wanted to hold him back but the GM insisted on it. (Note: I was my son's instructor not a sideline parent in the waiting room ). It was that mixed with some other personal reasons that we left the school and was blessed to walk into to Sharkey's Karate. He was pissed at first becuase he knew he was about 6 months out from black belt at the old school. However, he soon saw the differences between the two and realized that it was for the better to move on from where we were.

 

[TKD_Father]

terryl965 - You've put a lot of effort into discrediting my son's credentials.

I'll just say this. He's incredible.

You seem to have a clear understanding of what a Black Belt means to you. That can be respected. But that doesn't mean your right. It's what YOU require, not everyone.

My son met the criteria set forth by the original poster, which is what I was replying to.

What rank are you in Tae Kwon Do? I only ask because it was a well respected 9th (yes, Kukkiwon certified) that determined the rank of my son, and I'd like to know your knowledge of TKD to make these judgments.

Actually after reading through some of your last post, I'm not entirely liking the tone your setting.

he will be a poom just like all others nomatter what your GM says

Wow, strike a nerve? Ok, Ok, he's a Poom... I'll let ya know what his organization certificate says when we get it.

there bodys will break down. I know alot of the top fighters in the US and they have made the National Teams, so I find this to be not an accurate statement.

I'm not a slave driver, the 5 day 4 hour workouts were split into 2 hour segments and took place for 3 weeks prior to the tournament. And my son wanted to train more then he did.

I am never an *** about things and I would hate for you to think that way.

Too late.

As to why he hasn't done more national tournaments... He's only 9! He'll continue to do local and state tournaments over the next couple of years, then compete in some regional events and keep progressing. There's no point in pushing him now.

Also - it's really no business of anyones, but another reason for not entering some of these other tourny's is that his school's GM is not a believer in TKD as a sport. His school used to be very competitive but he saw the whole process becoming very political. He went back to a more traditional teaching. He actually doesn't approve of "outside" competitions. This is a serious issue for us, because we know how good he is and what he's capable of. It could come down to changing schools, though we're hoping it doesn't get that far... if might have to.