WTF vs Kukkiwon Certification

popcorn37209

White Belt
Joined
May 28, 2006
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
HI, excuse my ignorance please. I have a black belt certificate from 1987 which is from World Tae Kwon Do Headquarters, signed by Un Yong Kim, world tae kwon do federation. Is this a kukkiwon certificate or is that something different. I know alot has been discussed about this here, but I have just gotten back into Tae Kwon Do and am curious. Thank you, Michael.
 

Gemini

Senior Master
MTS Alumni
Joined
Apr 12, 2005
Messages
3,546
Reaction score
37
Location
The Desert
Hi Michael First let me welcome you to Martial Talk. Why don't you go over to the Meet & Greet section and introduce yourself. :)

Now to address your question. Certification comes from the Kukkiwon, not the World Taekwondo Federation. However, you're not the first person who's said that in the 80's, WTF did in fact, certify people. I'm hoping someone with more information on that will chime in here.
 

Last Fearner

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
712
Reaction score
17
Yes, I believe this issue has been discussed here on the Taekwondo Threads at MT before. The Kukkiwon was built in Seoul, Korea (1971-72, named in 1973) as the offical "National Academy" of Taekwondo in Korea, and is intended to be the World Headquarters of all "offical" Taekwondo training, and Black Belt certification. The KTA (Korea Taekwondo Association) is in charge of Taekwondo instruction in Korea (National Governing Body). As a matter of chain of command, the KTA would not be directly responsible for international training or certification. Thus, the WTF (World Taekwondo Federation) was created (to replace the ITF - International Taekwondo Federation, but that's a whole other story).

Black Belt certificates from the 1970s and 80s were issued from the Kukkiwon, but they were also recognized as WTF certificates. Dr. Un Young Kim was the President of Both the Kukkiwon and WTF, thus his signature on a Dan Certificate from that era would be a legitimate "Kukkiwon" certificate regardless (unless it was a forgery, or fake certificate). At the Kukkiwon, if you walk around the curved hallway which surrounds the gym you come to office doors for the KTA, the Kukkiwon, the Korean Olympic committee (and used to be one for the WTF).

Since I was there, I understand that the WTF has relocated its offices, and are no longer at the Kukkiwon building. The WTF logo used to be on the "Kukkiwon Certificates" but now the WTF has nothing to do with rank or Dan certification. New certificates come straight from the Kukkiwon, but the old ones with the WTF logo should still be recognized. The main thing is that there should be a certificate number on your certificate. You can verify if the Kukkiwon has record of your rank by contacting them.

Good Luck, and welcome to MT! :asian:
CM D. J. Eisenhart
 
OP
P

popcorn37209

White Belt
Joined
May 28, 2006
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Thank you for the replies. I think that it is probably a kukkiwon certificate, but I found a way to contact them on their website and I can check that it is in fact a kukkiwon certificate. I doubt that it is a forged or fake certificate as I have no questions about my master's integrity or his qualifications. Thanks again.

Michael
 

Miles

Senior Master
Joined
Oct 10, 2004
Messages
2,254
Reaction score
56
Location
Metro-Detroit
popcorn37209 said:
HI, excuse my ignorance please. I have a black belt certificate from 1987 which is from World Tae Kwon Do Headquarters, signed by Un Yong Kim, world tae kwon do federation. Is this a kukkiwon certificate or is that something different. I know alot has been discussed about this here, but I have just gotten back into Tae Kwon Do and am curious. Thank you, Michael.

The Kukkiwon is "World Taekwondo Headquarters" so it does sound like a legitimate certificate. As Last Fearner mentioned, you should have a number (which will be on all subsequent rank certificates). Generally, Americans have 05 as the first two numbers...

Welcome to MT!

Miles
 

allpet

Yellow Belt
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
26
Reaction score
0
Location
Denmark
I have heard that from 85 to 87 you could get WTF certificates.

They are the same as Kukkiwon certificates.

I can't remember why that was so. But today many are stille calling their Kukkiwon certificates for WTF certificates. :idunno:
 

IcemanSK

El Conquistador nim!
MT Mentor
MTS Alumni
Joined
Nov 7, 2005
Messages
6,482
Reaction score
181
Location
Los Angeles, CA
allpet said:
I have heard that from 85 to 87 you could get WTF certificates.

They are the same as Kukkiwon certificates.

I can't remember why that was so. But today many are stille calling their Kukkiwon certificates for WTF certificates. :idunno:

My 1st Dan was in 1985 & its from the WTF, not the Kukkiwon. I hope its legit.:)
 

Last Fearner

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
712
Reaction score
17
IcemanSK said:
My 1st Dan was in 1985 & its from the WTF, not the Kukkiwon. I hope its legit.:)

I'm sure it is, Iceman, but you could always check to be sure. I wasn't certain about this, but I remember that there was a time period in the 80's when I believe they were attempting to make the WTF the official international certification organization of Dan Certificates, keeping "Kukkiwon" certificates only for those who trained in Korea, or perhaps were Korean citizens.

Therefore, there may have been a period where the kukkiwon was not mentioned on the WTF certificates, but they are still as legitimate. It's just paperwork, and politics. In fact, having been certified during that period in time makes your certificate all the more unique and valuable in my opinion.

CM D. J. Eisenhart
 

matt.m

Senior Master
Joined
May 16, 2006
Messages
2,521
Reaction score
121
Location
St. Louis
That is cool, I find myself getting smarter the more I read Last Fearner's posts.
icon12.gif
 

IcemanSK

El Conquistador nim!
MT Mentor
MTS Alumni
Joined
Nov 7, 2005
Messages
6,482
Reaction score
181
Location
Los Angeles, CA
Last Fearner said:
I'm sure it is, Iceman, but you could always check to be sure. I wasn't certain about this, but I remember that there was a time period in the 80's when I believe they were attempting to make the WTF the official international certification organization of Dan Certificates, keeping "Kukkiwon" certificates only for those who trained in Korea, or perhaps were Korean citizens.

Therefore, there may have been a period where the kukkiwon was not mentioned on the WTF certificates, but they are still as legitimate. It's just paperwork, and politics. In fact, having been certified during that period in time makes your certificate all the more unique and valuable in my opinion.

CM D. J. Eisenhart

Master Stoker was kind enough to look into it for me & my 1st Dan from 1985 is legit.

Ya gotta love paperwork & politics as a way to make people feel important, but not really help others.
 

terryl965

<center><font size="2"><B>Martial Talk Ultimate<BR
MTS Alumni
Joined
Apr 9, 2004
Messages
41,259
Reaction score
340
Location
Grand Prairie Texas
IcemanSK said:
Master Stoker was kind enough to look into it for me & my 1st Dan from 1985 is legit.

Ya gotta love paperwork & politics as a way to make people feel important, but not really help others.

You are welcome and keep on training.
Terry
 

MSUTKD

Purple Belt
Joined
Jun 13, 2005
Messages
388
Reaction score
15
Location
Michigan
My 1st Dan from 1985 is the same, WTF logo on bottom, greenish paper with little TKD guys all over it. My 1st Dan number is different than my 2nd - 5th. I will scan it and post the difference from my 5th. The Kukkiwon just changed the certificates and ID cards.

ron
 

Miles

Senior Master
Joined
Oct 10, 2004
Messages
2,254
Reaction score
56
Location
Metro-Detroit
MSUTKD said:
The Kukkiwon just changed the certificates and ID cards.

ron

I saw that Kukkiwon had decided to change the certificates and cards. I have 3 applications which are being processed and am anxious to see what they look like "up close and personal."

Miles
 

cali_tkdbruin

Master of Arts
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Messages
1,697
Reaction score
16
Location
Los Angeles suburbs, Cali. USA
MSUTKD said:
My 1st Dan from 1985 is the same, WTF logo on bottom, greenish paper with little TKD guys all over it. My 1st Dan number is different than my 2nd - 5th. I will scan it and post the difference from my 5th. The Kukkiwon just changed the certificates and ID cards.

ron

You'd think that they would want to retain the same dan number for each practitioner as they progress up the TKD ladder. Sort of how here in the US you keep your same SSN or driver's license number throughout your entire life. I only hold a 2nd Kukkiwon dan, but both my 1st and 2nd dan certificates have the same Kukkiwon certified dan number. Your situation is different. Maybe it's better that once they assign you a dan number, it's yours forever.
 

Latest Discussions

Top