Wing Chun vs MMA
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Steve
Mostly Harmless
One martial art isn't better than another.
What is MMA, actually?
Let's say I "mixed" up my own version of "Eclectic-Do," in which I snagged cool-looking stuff from Tai Chi, Aikido and Wushu Kung Fu. That's a Mixed Martial Art, right?
And my evil twin, 3PJ dialed-up his own, wherein he stole stuff from Kenpo, Muay Thai and Savate. Another Mixed Martial Art, right?
Which one is better?
What if I also said that I trained one day out of 5, wherein evil twin guy trained 2 hours a day, worked with hard core sparring partners, etc?
He'd be better, right? So... is it the Mixture, or the guy? You tell me.
Let's say I "mixed" up my own version of "Eclectic-Do," in which I snagged cool-looking stuff from Tai Chi, Aikido and Wushu Kung Fu. That's a Mixed Martial Art, right?
And my evil twin, 3PJ dialed-up his own, wherein he stole stuff from Kenpo, Muay Thai and Savate. Another Mixed Martial Art, right?
Which one is better?
What if I also said that I trained one day out of 5, wherein evil twin guy trained 2 hours a day, worked with hard core sparring partners, etc?
He'd be better, right? So... is it the Mixture, or the guy? You tell me.
So UFC fighting, not mixed martial arts
The answer is still: it depends on the situation. If they're both at the same level, that means that they are both equal in a fight based on what they've learned, so it would depend on whether a situation suits itself better to "conventional MMA' or Wing chun. This isn't the answer your looking for, but it's the only truthful answer. Now if you wanted to ask what advantages there are to practicing wing chun I'm sure some people could answer that, but there is generally no X style is better than Y style simple answer to these questions.
The answer is still: it depends on the situation. If they're both at the same level, that means that they are both equal in a fight based on what they've learned, so it would depend on whether a situation suits itself better to "conventional MMA' or Wing chun. This isn't the answer your looking for, but it's the only truthful answer. Now if you wanted to ask what advantages there are to practicing wing chun I'm sure some people could answer that, but there is generally no X style is better than Y style simple answer to these questions.
Really? I can't believe you actually wrote that. You are probably serious, too, right? No, don't answer that.
What is there to "cope with" in MMA, and by MMA I am assuming that you mean the UFC rules for fighting as (as I set out above) there really is no single MMA. Striking? I think the WC guys/gals can deal with that. Takedowns? Take a bit of Judo or BJJ and that's handled. What is there to cope with?It's all the same, it's about who, not what.
Hanzou
Grandmaster
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You've seriously not aware of WC "anti-grappling" and other training methods developed to specifically deal with MMA fighters?
Conversely, I have yet to attend a MMA session where we deal with how to stop a WC practitioner from knocking us out.
And clearly it is about what, since you're not seeing WC guys entering NHB competitions and doing well. I mean, if all styles are equal, than we should see equal representation of styles. However we don't see that. Instead, we see people from same handful of styles over and over again.
Both can and have been effectively used for self defense. Pick the one that you can find good instruction for and are willing to commit to, because that is the best one for (your) self defense. Until then, carry pepper spray if you are really worried about self defense. No one's style matters if you empty a can of that in someone's face.
I haven't. Did WC not have anti-grappling methods before then? They've developed new anti-grappling training in response to modern MMA?
Has WC not had representation in lei tai matches? I haven't checked to be sure, but I'd be very surprised if that were true.
lklawson
Grandmaster
Chic-Chic-BANG.
One martial art is not better than another. Doesn't really matter in the least if you don't like that fact, it remains a fact.
Life is not that black and white. Get over it.
Not only WC, MMA also doesn't care about long fist, Baji, praying mantis, Taiji, XingYi, Bagua, .... The term "style" has no meaning for MMA as long as you know how to use tools such as:
- jab, cross, uppercut, hook, back fist, hammer fist, ...
- straight elbow, downward elbow, upward elbow, backward elbow, ...
- front kick, side kick, roundhouse kick, hook kick, ...
- upward knee, side knee, flying knee, ...
- finger lock, wrist lock, elbow lock, shoulder lock, head long, spine lock, ...
- hip throw, shoulder throw, single leg, double legs, foot sweep, ...
- arm bar, leg bar, neck choke, side mount, missionary mount, 69 mount, ...
The main concern is which MA style (or styles) can provide you with such tools.
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Danny T
Senior Master
Maybe you don't know of any but I know several with wing chun knowledge. And they do use some within there MMA performances. They do just as boxers turned MMA, wrestlers turned MMA, BJJers turned MMA...etc have done. They train other aspects of the sport fight game. Today how many pure wrestlers do you see in MMA? Or pure any other martial art in MMA especially in the high level events?
I love how when some fighters use Filipino style infighting it isn't called Panantukan or Suntukan which is where much of it came from it is call dirty boxing. When a fighter throws a round house type of kick contacting with the shin it is Muay Thai even though the fighter doesn't train muay thai. Some one latches onto another's neck and shoulder and drive a knee they are using the thai knees.
Jon Jones uses the wing chun bil gee a lot. A lot of fighters use the mon sao... the lead hand reaching out to make contact with the opponent. The so called oblique kick named by Joe Rogan (because he didn't know where it came from) is out of wing chun and is also seen in Savate as well even a lot of BJJ players use it. How about Anderson Silvia who began training and adding wing chun to his tool box? No wing chun isn't in MMA sports but a lot of wing chun techniques are.
I love how when some fighters use Filipino style infighting it isn't called Panantukan or Suntukan which is where much of it came from it is call dirty boxing. When a fighter throws a round house type of kick contacting with the shin it is Muay Thai even though the fighter doesn't train muay thai. Some one latches onto another's neck and shoulder and drive a knee they are using the thai knees.
Jon Jones uses the wing chun bil gee a lot. A lot of fighters use the mon sao... the lead hand reaching out to make contact with the opponent. The so called oblique kick named by Joe Rogan (because he didn't know where it came from) is out of wing chun and is also seen in Savate as well even a lot of BJJ players use it. How about Anderson Silvia who began training and adding wing chun to his tool box? No wing chun isn't in MMA sports but a lot of wing chun techniques are.
So you're implying that training MMA is better than training Wing Chun if you want to compete in MMA. I think so too.
I also think that an MMA stylist would do poorly in a Wing Chun grading test.
However, those two statements don't mean anything regarding the question in the OP which is 'which one would help me the most for self defence?'.
Btw it's weird to hear that WC guys are 'now developing anti grappling techniques'. It's difficult to believe that in the seemingly long story of Wing Chun no instructor ever thought to himself 'what do I do if I ever get grappled/tackled'. The UFC is indeed a blessing, no man ever would have thought about grappling/takedowns before. Don't listen to the haters, though, they'll say it's judo.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
okay, let's not get too crazy here. have you seen the ridiculous "anti grappling" that some WC guys are marketing?
The Chinese wrestling is popular in the northern part of China. It's not popular in the southern part of China. When the WC style was created, to use WC to fight against wrestler might not be a major consideration back then.
If you want to learn the
- striking art, you may choice WC.
- grappling art, you may not choice WC. You may not even choice long fist, Baji, praying mantis, ... Any striking art is always weak in grappling, that's a fact.
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@Steve: I've not seen them but if they've been recently 'developed' with the sole purpose of being more appealing to clients yeah there are good chances that they are ridiculous. I'm not sure how representative of the art they are, though.
@Wang: I understand. I've never said that WC was strong in grappling though.
My point was that it would be strange if, at any point of its history, no one ever tackled any of the 'big names' of WC or one of their students. I agree that they didn't train with the primary focus of dealing with grappling but it doesn't mean that they've never considered getting taken down and that they've never come up with a countermeasure. I've seen angry kids and untrained adults do 'takedowns', it makes sense that WC offers some kind of countermeasure for these situations (although its developers probably did not have in mind judo/bjj's sophisticated take on groundfighting).
@Wang: I understand. I've never said that WC was strong in grappling though.
My point was that it would be strange if, at any point of its history, no one ever tackled any of the 'big names' of WC or one of their students. I agree that they didn't train with the primary focus of dealing with grappling but it doesn't mean that they've never considered getting taken down and that they've never come up with a countermeasure. I've seen angry kids and untrained adults do 'takedowns', it makes sense that WC offers some kind of countermeasure for these situations (although its developers probably did not have in mind judo/bjj's sophisticated take on groundfighting).
lklawson
Grandmaster
Umm... Boxing used to have trips, throws, a lock or two, a couple of chokes, backfists, hammer-fists, spinning-backfists, hair pulling, eye-gouging, rabbit punches, an "accidental" kick or two, and even a few of what could be called "vital point" or "pressure point" attacks, you know this, right?
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
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