Martial arts for self defense

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RTKDCMB

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Judo utilizes fairly modern training methods. Many classical MA styles do not.

Define 'modern training methods'. Our training differs from what was it was 20 years ago.

BTW, TKD isn't a classical style. Heck, Judo, Bjj, and modern Japanese karate are older than TKD.

BTW, I did not mention which arts are modern and which were traditional in my comment. Also the art itself does not have to be old to be considered traditional, only the traditions have to be.
 
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RTKDCMB

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I'm merely repeating what scholars and a few people on this forum have stated about karate's general purpose as "civilian self defense".
The reason most self defense martial arts concentrate on defense against relatively unskilled attacker is because those are the ones you are most likely to encounter in civilian self defense. However they still teach defenses to many types of attacks (such as side kicks and back kicks) that unskilled people are not likely to be able to use,
 

Hanzou

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Define 'modern training methods'. Our training differs from what was it was 20 years ago.

That is an entirely different thread. No need to derail this discussion any further.

BTW, I did not mention which arts are modern and which were traditional in my comment. Also the art itself does not have to be old to be considered traditional, only the traditions have to be.

Yeah, but the problem here is that the roots of TKD aren't traditional either, they literally come from the modernized version of Japanese karate which itself dates back to the 1920s when Funakoshi watered down traditional Okinawan karate for the Japanese masses. Even the forms come from Shotokan karate. Those that didn't were created by a group of officials after WW2.

I gotta say, that history of the Taekyon (sp?) warriors is pretty entertaining though.

The reason most self defense martial arts concentrate on defense against relatively unskilled attacker is because those are the ones you are most likely to encounter in civilian self defense. However they still teach defenses to many types of attacks (such as side kicks and back kicks) that unskilled people are not likely to be able to use,

Which is a strange philosophy because there's no guarantee that you're going to mainly encounter unskilled attackers. That concept made sense back in the old times when only the wealthy got martial arts training, but in the modern world, everyone has access to martial arts training on some level.
 

Buka

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Things sometimes get heated around here. So here's a little Kumbaya to sooth.

24447pz.jpg


Now, somebody kill the fricken' bird and carry on.
 

Hanzou

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But still the majority of people you will encounter on the street will have little or no martial arts training.

I simply don't believe that. In America every kid has access to wrestling, and in some areas they have access to boxing in secondary school. Beyond that, styles like boxing and basic grappling aren't very difficult to learn on your own as long as you have a partner. You take a look at those street fighting vids, and some of those kids have VERY solid striking and grappling skills.

You can also find just about every Bjj or MMA submission on YouTube nowadays. In fact YT is so comprehensive, even trained people use it for supplemental training. You combine that with some rudimentary skills and street fighting experience and you can have some problems.
 

Touch Of Death

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But still the majority of people you will encounter on the street will have little or no martial arts training.
Everybody thinks they know something that gives them the advantage. Even the guy that stayed home and locked it door. It gave him an advantage, didn't it? :)
 

Steve

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Usually when a guy comes on the internet to spout about how tough he is, it is a pretty safe bet, he is no match for the police. However, carry on... :)
I mentioned this earlier, but based on everything tez and ballen are saying, the key to self defense is being a cop. IThey see a lot of stuff, certainly more than most. At least I can see where they're coming from.

I don't completely agree, as I think being a cop is as far away from self defense as competitive MMA, just in another direction. But I commend ballen for actually taking a position that isn't just contrary to another poster.
 

Steve

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It's even better in person. How quick they change their tune when I unpin my badge from my shirt and start taking off my gun belt
Sense when did debate on a message board become stalking? What exactly makes this public, two way discussion stalking? Would a profanity laced, threatening PM be more like stalking? I've never sent ballen a profanity laced, threatening pm. Can you say the same thing, ballen? I haven't forgotten those PMs.

I happen to not agree with you, and posted in response. that's not stalking. It's doing what people do on a message board. arent you a cop? Shouldn't you know that?
 

Steve

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Well PCP is totally different then most other drugs but Its just 1 example of many that you don't prepare for playing in the ring. Mental health issues, other drugs, weapons, multiple attackers, someone really trying to kill you not just trying to "win", your own level of intoxication, environmental issues. So again it's not the self defense method its the mind set. If you really believe the mat is just as good as real life then your in for a rude awakening when you start tapping and the guy laughs and then doesn't stop.
How does the typical martial artist, interested in self defense training, prepare for a guy on PCP?
 

Hanzou

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How does the typical martial artist, interested in self defense training, prepare for a guy on PCP?

What I found interesting about that exchange is that Ballen had a problem believing that a MMA fighter could stop a guy on PCP, but had no problem believing that a traditional karate expert could stop a guy on PCP.

I'd be very interested to know exactly what aspect of traditional training makes someone more capable of handling a modern, violent situation.
 

Steve

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no I developed it from being in the street
This definitely makes sense. I've said many times that you can't really become an expert without application. It sounds like you're saying that the training doesn't matter. Is that what you mean?
 

Steve

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But still the majority of people you will encounter on the street will have little or no martial arts training.
This is an interesting assertion. I see where you're coming from. But given the statistical unlikelihood that you will ever be in a self defense situation at all, wouldn't you want to prepare for a worst case scenario? At least as far as fighting skills.
 

Steve

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What I found interesting about that exchange is that Ballen had a problem believing that a MMA fighter could stop a guy on PCP, but had no problem believing that a traditional karate expert could stop a guy on PCP.

I'd be very interested to know exactly what aspect of traditional training makes someone more capable of handling a modern, violent situation.
Frankly, I don't know how pcp enter d the conversation at all. It seems like cherry picking something that a cop runs into but is otherwise completely irrelevant to a discussion about self defense.
 

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