Martial arts for self defense

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RTKDCMB

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Well that's the thing; In sport/competitive MAs we tend to test our techniques against living opponents.

That doesn't happen in many traditional MAs. So what happens is you get pretty forms;


But when the rubber meets the road......


As you said; If your opponent is made out of straw, all that kata stuff would work out just fine. When you attempt to apply it to someone trying to punch you in the face, things start falling apart.
And you think those two videos are representative of all self defense martial arts? How cute. And for the record in the second video they are in a contest therefor the were engaging in sport not self defense.
 

Hanzou

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i,was waiting for your kata bashing to start

Except it isn't a bash, it's simply the truth. Form training really doesn't translate into fighting ability, which is why many fighting arts have done away with it completely and replaced it with more modern methods.

There's nothing essentially wrong with forms. Heck, I openly admit that I enjoy watching kata competitions since I have a weak spot for seeing well done karate kata, but I also fully recognize that doing a beautiful kata isn't going to help against someone trying to punch me in the face.

Forms can be a great way to exercise or relieve stress, but then again so can running and doing yoga on a regular basis.
 

ballen0351

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Except it isn't a bash, it's simply the truth. Form training really doesn't translate into fighting ability, which is why many fighting arts have done away with it completely and replaced it with more modern methods.

There's nothing essentially wrong with forms. Heck, I openly admit that I enjoy watching kata competitions since I have a weak spot for seeing well done karate kata, but I also fully recognize that doing a beautiful kata isn't going to help against someone trying to punch me in the face.

Forms can be a great way to exercise or relieve stress, but then again so can running and doing yoga on a regular basis.
it's not "truth" thats all your opinion
 

Hanzou

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And you think those two videos are representative of all self defense martial arts? How cute.

And where did I say or imply that? My art is a self defense art. How would that video represent my art at all?

And for the record in the second video they are in a contest therefor the were engaging in sport not self defense.

Exactly. So if this venerated instructor can't stop some barely-trained kid from knocking him out in a relatively safe contest, how is he going to fair against someone who isn't going to stop after he's knocked him out cold?
 

RTKDCMB

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What DB and Fried are saying is that MMA style training is effective for self defense and self protection because it teaches you how to fight off trained people of various sizes.
So does just about every other martial art out there and often without weight classes.
 

ballen0351

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Has any of the people who give seminars about the hidden power of bunkai ever stepped into a ring or a cage to showcase its effectiveness?
I have no idea I don't study their life history but I know for a fact they have used it in real life to,defend themselves so I don't care about pretty trophies
 

Hanzou

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So does just about every other martial art out there and often without weight classes.

Actually that's not true. Karate for example was developed to beat unskilled people, not other skilled martial artists.

That would include your art of Tae Kwon Do, since it's a Korean derivative of Japanese karate.

I have no idea I don't study their life history but I know for a fact they have used it in real life to,defend themselves so I don't care about pretty trophies

So that would be a "no". I can't say that surprises me.

Don't you think it's interesting that we have all these fighting experts who have never really fought anyone?
 

RTKDCMB

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Actually that's not true. Karate for example was developed to beat unskilled people, not other skilled martial artists.

That would include your art of Tae Kwon Do, since it's a Korean derivative of Japanese karate.
So do you think that we just get unskilled people into our dojang to spar against so we don't have to spar skilled martial artists?
 

Hanzou

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So do you think that we just get unskilled people into our dojang to spar against so we don't have to spar skilled martial artists?

I'm merely repeating what scholars and a few people on this forum have stated about karate's general purpose as "civilian self defense".

You were trying to use it as an example that martial arts that incorporate kata cannot use their martial art to defend themselves and you failed, miserably.

Judo incorporates kata, and I would never say that a Judoka isn't fully capable of defending themselves.

What I was saying is that kata as the main training method doesn't tend to translate well into overall fighting ability. What sets Judo apart from that particular Kung Fu style is the training methodology. Judo utilizes fairly modern training methods. Many classical MA styles do not.

BTW, TKD isn't a classical style. Heck, Judo, Bjj, and modern Japanese karate are older than TKD.
 
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