What does an online bully look like to you?

[Steve]

not shocked you saw that as an insult if you really did, (which i dont believe, i am pretty sure you are just claiming aggrieved status).

Just to be very clear. I did because you did.

that game draws jackasses, (most 1st person shooters do)that your kids played it doesnt mean i was insulting them unless you want it to mean that. Particuarly after i said, IN ENGLISH that i didnt mean any such thing.

i couldnt be an "online bully" if i wanted to, since there is no such thing

You're saying now that online bullies don't exist? Really? I would bet money that you are the only one on this entire board, and probably in a very exclusive group of people in the country who would agree with this statement. I've said before, and I'll say again, Twin Fist. You need help, and I hope you get it.

none of us can be because this isnt real, it is words on a screen. bullies give you swirly's, THAT is what bullies do, they take your lunch money and give you wedgies.

Is that what they did to you? Is that why you're so angry and aggressive online?

not mocking replies to your posts...seriously

Not what? Mocking everyone else who has posted in this thread? I'd say that's pretty much exactly what you're doing.

not shocked you see bullies everywhere though,....

Not everywhere. But I have no problem calling them out when I see them.

all you are doing is once again throwing your personal insults in your typical passive agressive way to try and stay just inside the rules.

LOL. Yeah. Mr. "I don't make stuff up." You and my mother in law are the King and Queen of passive aggressive.

My posts are very clear and if you cant follow me, your reading comprehension is....not my problem.

Yeah. They're clear, when you're not yelling or tripping the profanity filter every third word. Which is very rarely.

either way, bored now.

Haha. Yeah. Go get yourself another beer and relax.

 

[Ironcrane]

Online bullying is a bit of an enigma to me. On one hand that kind of behavior is frowned upon, and mocked to the point that anyone who acts like that will just look shameful, and ridiculous to their own detriment. On the other hand, it's so widespread that it would be easy to assume that everyone involved in online communities are hateful, moronic, bigots.
Your kids might have been indifferent to the way they were acting, because the best method of combating online bullying is to not give them attention. At least that's the best method I'm currently aware of.

 

[Steve]

Online bullying is a bit of an enigma to me. On one hand that kind of behavior is frowned upon, and mocked to the point that anyone who acts like that will just look shameful, and ridiculous to their own detriment. On the other hand, it's so widespread that it would be easy to assume that everyone involved in online communities are hateful, moronic, bigots.
Your kids might have been indifferent to the way they were acting, because the best method of combating online bullying is to not give them attention. At least that's the best method I'm currently aware of.

A lesson I can't seem to learn.

 

[granfire]

Online bullying is a bit of an enigma to me. On one hand that kind of behavior is frowned upon, and mocked to the point that anyone who acts like that will just look shameful, and ridiculous to their own detriment. On the other hand, it's so widespread that it would be easy to assume that everyone involved in online communities are hateful, moronic, bigots.
Your kids might have been indifferent to the way they were acting, because the best method of combating online bullying is to not give them attention. At least that's the best method I'm currently aware of.

I think the bullying only takes hold if the online and real life personas actually cross paths.

I mean, you would be an idiot to let a complete stranger from who-knows-where bully you.

But I think the cases that end tragic always include the real life aspect. That's why I did step up and took action when those lines intersected.
I can't keep it from happening at school, but I can intercept the online aspect.
Just because you sit at home alone does not mean you are not heard or seen.

 

[WC_lun]

The main problem with online bullying is kids and teenagers. A lot of them haven't developed a well established and confident ego so when they get bullied, it effects them greater than a normal adult. If the child or teenager has psycological problems or bullied in real life (say school) it becomes a recipe for disaster. Kids can be pretty damn mean as well. A teenager recently committed suicide due to being bullied because he was gay. At a school dance his sister was attending some of the student's friends started chanting his name as a sort of a homage to him. Others in the school began adding stuff like "...is better off dead!" to the chant. While I don't think these kids are representive of most teenagers, they certainly are not very rare.

Bulies online are bullies in life as well. However, many times they are to cowardly to act out on the impulse unless put in a situation where they are safe from repurcussions. Look at those that won't say boo to anyone on thier own, but put them in a crowd or backed by enough of thier friends and they become very vocal and aggressive. It is the same type of behaviour.

 

[Cyriacus]

Its a fickle Topic.

Remember that they MAY be "Bullying" by Ganging up and whatnot;
But for the People Ganging up, its a Form of Tactics.

Just as an Offhand Example, Youtube > Minecraft Griefing.
On the One Hand, if the Server doesnt Protect its Property, Sabotage is Inevitable.
On the Second, its Unfortunate if alot of Work went into something, or the Acquisition of Resources.
On the Third, People should Fortify Better.
On the Fourth, the People doing it are Exploiting either the Weakness of the Defenses; Or the Obviousness of the Possessions.
On the Fifth, if its a Group, theyre just Co-Operating.
Sure, it may be Cooperating against someone, but then, its better than an aimless free-for-all, even if youre on the Receiving End of a Superior Group.

 

[Twin Fist]

the ones in Oak Cliff did, they were tough chicas.......lol

Twin fist - Clearly you haven't experienced female bullies in high school. They don't operate that way.

 

[Twin Fist]

blah blah blah more passive aggressive personal attacks and insults.

i said in english, "not talking about your kids" you keep bringing it up after that? YOU are stirring up something, or trying to. As usual.

I've said before, and I'll say again, Twin Fist. You need help, and I hope you get it.

another passive aggressive personal attack.

Is that what they did to you? Is that why you're so angry and aggressive online?

and another

when you're not yelling or tripping the profanity filter every third word. Which is very rarely.
Haha. Yeah. Go get yourself another beer and relax.

and two more for fun

all you got is personal insults and you dont even have the intestinal fortitude to just come out and say it, you do the chick thing and try to dance AROUND the insult.

PS
i dont even drink, so thats you AGAIN making up stuff and telling lies.

 

[Sukerkin]

Calmly, gentlemen, if you please. Othwise I shall have to call the attention of a most definitely non-passive Moderator. If you can't play together nicely then it is best to stay away from each other.

Mark A. Beardmore
MT Moderator

 

[seasoned]

Snide remarks yes, defensiveness yes, sharp tongued wit, some. Passionate about political stances yes. Bullying, I just don't see it here on Martial Talk. The study is the study, a place where you better have your game face on and your facts straight. From past experience, bullies/trolls, don't last long. The study at times gets heated, but, is well monitored. The study motto should read "enter at your own risk" and if your overly sensitive, read, but don't get to deeply involved. To me it looks like a huge sparring match, and I enjoy the view from the stands.

 

[MJS]

I'm curious. My kids were playing a game online, and I was appalled. I don't believe in sheltering my kids, but they were playing on a server that was really vile. Regular use of profanity, derogatory comments and ganging up, in game.

My kids were completely unaffected by it. They didn't think it was any big deal. While they didn't engage in any of the back and forth, they didn't take offense, either. After all, they said, it's not like they know me in real life.

Now, on the one hand, I thought that this was good for my kids. They're grounded and stable enough to keep things in perspective. At the same time, I was concerned that they see a huge disconnect between online behavior and real life behavior. It's okay, in other words, to say things online to someone you don't know that you would never say in real life. We had a good chat about that one. Suffice to say, I disagree.

Which is the point of the thread. Do you see bullies online as being different than in real life? Do you see a concerning disparity between how kids view "real life" interaction vs their online communication?

On forums like this one, do you believe we have bullies? What are some of the characteristics of an online bully? What do you do about it, if anything? Is how you react online functionally different than in real life (other than the obvious differences)?

Hey Steve,

Nice thread! To answer your questions: First, let me start by saying that I commend your kids for not falling into the 'game' that the other people were playing. It certainly says alot.

Do I think bullies are different online vs in person? No. Only difference is that they torment people with written words, vs. actually standing in front of them and tormenting them. OTOH, its funny, because alot of the time, people use the 'security' of the computer to aid in their actions, which sometimes leads to things being said that normally wouldn't be said face to face. Of course there've also been times, and I can't recall where this happened, but there was an incident in which a mother got online, posed as a male, began talking to a female, whom her daughter and her friends didn't like, and actually pretended to like her, only to suddenly turn on her, which resulted in the girl killing herself.

Do we have bullies on MT? Sure. Some are no longer here, some probably still lurk, and some hide, pop back to stir the pot, then run back to their safe spot, like a *****.

What do I do about it? Well, obviously if they're that much of a PITA, I ban their ***! LOL! Which results in them coming back to resume their BS or talk **** on another forum. LOL. Some people have nothing better to do with their time I guess. LOL

How do I deal with online vs. real life? Well, online....I've learned to chalk it up to people being kids. Online BS is easy (for some) to walk away from. On here, all you need to do is ignore the person, ban them (after discussion with the other mods) but most importantly, you can walk away from the computer. Trust me, more than once, I've typed up a reply that probably would get me banned or some IC points...LOL...only to walk away, come back, and start over, making a more civil, mature post.

Real life...well, thats not so easy. Kinda hard to walk away from some ******* that you work with...lol. You learn to grow a thick skin and ignore..lol. Of course, some people in RL are stupid, and dont know when to draw the line, so sometimes you need to tell them. I try not to pull as many punches as I used to...in other words, if someone is being an ***, I'm going to tell them. Sadly, you can't always change someone else, but you can learn that you're a better person, by not falling into their trap.

 

[Steve]

Hey Steve,

Nice thread! To answer your questions: First, let me start by saying that I commend your kids for not falling into the 'game' that the other people were playing. It certainly says alot.

They're smart kids.

Do I think bullies are different online vs in person? No. Only difference is that they torment people with written words, vs. actually standing in front of them and tormenting them. OTOH, its funny, because alot of the time, people use the 'security' of the computer to aid in their actions, which sometimes leads to things being said that normally wouldn't be said face to face. Of course there've also been times, and I can't recall where this happened, but there was an incident in which a mother got online, posed as a male, began talking to a female, whom her daughter and her friends didn't like, and actually pretended to like her, only to suddenly turn on her, which resulted in the girl killing herself.

I remember this too. I think Carol brought it up earlier in the thread. Bullies definitely exist online.

I've mentioned in the past that i believe bullies and people who are bullied are functionally the same. What I mean is that in most cases, people who bully others and people who attract bullies are both insecure, both anti-social, tend not to be very introspective and are lacking some fundamental skills that make it difficult for them to get along with others.

My theory, based on my 20 or so years on usenet/internet forums, is that online bullies are actually people who tend to be bullied in real life and feel empowered online.

Do we have bullies on MT? Sure. Some are no longer here, some probably still lurk, and some hide, pop back to stir the pot, then run back to their safe spot, like a *****.

What do I do about it? Well, obviously if they're that much of a PITA, I ban their ***! LOL! Which results in them coming back to resume their BS or talk **** on another forum. LOL. Some people have nothing better to do with their time I guess. LOL

How do I deal with online vs. real life? Well, online....I've learned to chalk it up to people being kids. Online BS is easy (for some) to walk away from. On here, all you need to do is ignore the person, ban them (after discussion with the other mods) but most importantly, you can walk away from the computer. Trust me, more than once, I've typed up a reply that probably would get me banned or some IC points...LOL...only to walk away, come back, and start over, making a more civil, mature post.

Real life...well, thats not so easy. Kinda hard to walk away from some ******* that you work with...lol. You learn to grow a thick skin and ignore..lol. Of course, some people in RL are stupid, and dont know when to draw the line, so sometimes you need to tell them. I try not to pull as many punches as I used to...in other words, if someone is being an ***, I'm going to tell them. Sadly, you can't always change someone else, but you can learn that you're a better person, by not falling into their trap.

Which leads me to another question. Most of the people on this board are professionals in some capacity or another. I think most of us work. Have you ever worked with an adult bully? I'm talking the boss who publicly embarrasses employees, picks favorites, or sets impossible deadlines... or coworkers who are passive aggressive, sabotage projects or gang up on each other. Now that we have, in theory, better interpersonal skills to deal with them, how do you guys approach these things?

There's a book I read a few years back. I really like it. It's called the No ******* Rule. I think we could benefit from a little more of that around here.

 

[Monroe]

Stevebjj - We have a bully at work. We call him Satan. I think his employed days are numbered.

They're not an asset, they're a liability. In all fairness, the employer needs a heads up. They're the ones who'll probably end up being sued.

 

[MJS]

They're smart kids.

I remember this too. I think Carol brought it up earlier in the thread. Bullies definitely exist online.

Ah...yes, you're correct. I missed that post.

I've mentioned in the past that i believe bullies and people who are bullied are functionally the same. What I mean is that in most cases, people who bully others and people who attract bullies are both insecure, both anti-social, tend not to be very introspective and are lacking some fundamental skills that make it difficult for them to get along with others.

You're probably correct. Think about it....back in high school, how many popular kids did you see getting bullied? I dont recall many, if any at all. Those kids, the more popular ones, most likely were not lacking what you mention.

My theory, based on my 20 or so years on usenet/internet forums, is that online bullies are actually people who tend to be bullied in real life and feel empowered online.

True.

Which leads me to another question. Most of the people on this board are professionals in some capacity or another. I think most of us work. Have you ever worked with an adult bully? I'm talking the boss who publicly embarrasses employees, picks favorites, or sets impossible deadlines... or coworkers who are passive aggressive, sabotage projects or gang up on each other. Now that we have, in theory, better interpersonal skills to deal with them, how do you guys approach these things?

Yes. Usually, if at all possible, I do my best to have as little interaction with them as possible. Sure, there're people who I can't avoid, ie: people that work on my shift. However, some of those people I only interact with, only when its work related. Otherwise, I do my best to not engage in chat with them.

There's a book I read a few years back. I really like it. It's called the No ******* Rule. I think we could benefit from a little more of that around here.

 

[Flying Crane]

On forums like this one, do you believe we have bullies?

I believe there are people here in these forums who are bullies, or who work in that direction. Sometimes people make excuses for it by saying, "oh, he's really a decent guy face-to-face". I say BS to that. What he says and how he says it when hidden safely behind a computer monitor is probably the real personality there. If he's nice face-to-face, it's a facade designed to hide his true personality. The guy who comes out online is probably the real deal.

It doesn't bother me much, I just see it as showing his true colors and I know what kind of people they are. From that point on they don't hold any credibility for me and I don't engage with them. I also know who I have no interest in ever meeting, face-to-face.

 

[Flying Crane]

Since our children can almost live their lives online,

this is actually the part that I find most disturbing.

 

[Sukerkin]

Aye, the sense of simple human contact is seemingly being lost with the flood of portable digital comms available.

I see it at work. Whereas only ten years ago, myself and my workmates would sit in the canteen, play cards and chat, the young people we're employing now sit around the table reverently worshipping their iPhones.

I have no evidence that this is societally bad but it certainly doesn't feel like it's 'good' for long term 'social health'.

 

[Flying Crane]

Aye, the sense of simple human contact is seemingly being lost with the flood of portable digital comms available.

I see it at work. Whereas only ten years ago, myself and my workmates would sit in the canteen, play cards and chat, the young people we're employing now sit around the table reverently worshipping their iPhones.

I have no evidence that this is societally bad but it certainly doesn't feel like it's 'good' for long term 'social health'.

I'm the last man on the planet who has never owned a cell phone. And fighting desperately to keep it that way.

never been on Facebook, Myspace, etc...

never sent a text message or IM.

comfortable with email, tho.

 

[Twin Fist]

luddite!!! lol

 

[Sukerkin]

ROFLKLITA - aye, I'm 'guilty as charged' too, John. Which is pretty ironic considering what I do for a living and how I spend a lot of my leisure time (either here or playing LOTRO).