What does an online bully look like to you?

[Steve]

I'm curious. My kids were playing a game online, and I was appalled. I don't believe in sheltering my kids, but they were playing on a server that was really vile. Regular use of profanity, derogatory comments and ganging up, in game.

My kids were completely unaffected by it. They didn't think it was any big deal. While they didn't engage in any of the back and forth, they didn't take offense, either. After all, they said, it's not like they know me in real life.

Now, on the one hand, I thought that this was good for my kids. They're grounded and stable enough to keep things in perspective. At the same time, I was concerned that they see a huge disconnect between online behavior and real life behavior. It's okay, in other words, to say things online to someone you don't know that you would never say in real life. We had a good chat about that one. Suffice to say, I disagree.

Which is the point of the thread. Do you see bullies online as being different than in real life? Do you see a concerning disparity between how kids view "real life" interaction vs their online communication?

On forums like this one, do you believe we have bullies? What are some of the characteristics of an online bully? What do you do about it, if anything? Is how you react online functionally different than in real life (other than the obvious differences)?

 

[WC_lun]

I've played online games and belonged to forums which this kind of behavior is fairly common place. I don't really know how to stop it. As long as there is a venue in which cowards can hide behind a screen name and not put themselves in jeopardy of actually suffering the repurcussions of thier bad behaviour, you'll have the bullying. My rule is I won't say anything on the net that I won't say to a person's face. I would hope that when/if I have children they would see my example of showing respect to people and follow it, even on the internet.

 

[Empty Hands]

 

[Steve]

What occurred to me yesterday isn't necessarily the acting like a turd online, but the lack of concern or desensitization that my kids exhibited. They were more concerned for me, because I was genuinely shocked. As I said, I am about being involved, not having blinders on and guiding my kids. So far, that's worked out really well. They're good kids, honest, not sneaky. But I was alarmed.

So, after talking about it, they agreed to avoid that particular server.

So, you think that the online bullies are "normal people" who enjoy the anonymity of online games to act out? Or is a bully a bully?

 

[Carol]

Many bullies seem to be skilled in acting insidious...they won't beat down a kid in full view of the dean, they would seize the opportunity when they are less likely to be seen or heard. The Missouri case comes to mind where 13 year old Megan Meier committed suicide after first being bullied by someone she thought was a new boy in town. (The "boy" wasn't a boy at all, but the mother of one of Megan's friends who made the character up to belittle Megan after the two teens had a falling out).

 

[Jenna]

Do you see a concerning disparity between how kids view "real life" interaction vs their online communication?

I think this is the worrying part. Since our children can almost live their lives online, virtual- and real-world activity is scarcely delineated and one naturally flows into the other. I think this is worrying exactly because of the nature of your question Steve. When someone cannot readily delineate the BIG BLACK LINE differentiating what is real from what is a binary representation then who is to say that that person (especially the youthful and naive) can differentiate between what is bullying online and what is bullying in reality. If their bullying is either condoned online or at least comes with no penalty then why should they imagine it is so wrong. If they have no strong differentiation between Facebook "friends" and flesh-and-blood people then it is a short hop from bullying online to enacting that behaviour in reality I think.

For us who fight for our hobby, We tend to believe that a real-world punch-up would sort out a bully, especially when our children are at school age - I have always taught this pedagogy to my son, and but no! not if an online bully with no sense of real / online differentiation has come to school with a kitchen knife in their backpack.

AS to forums like these, Steve, you know they are more often than not congregations of closet bullies seeking opportunity to flex their typing wrath. In some cases it is explicit calling someone out or acting the internet tough guy and but in other cases it is the kind of verbal beration or beating down that would be unlikely to garner any support or kinship in the real world. I believe we internet people are ambivalent towards the more subtle bullying. We say to ourselves that we do not approve and claim we cringe when we see it acted out. And but really we like to be the dispassionate voyeur of arguments and arguers, no?

On another note, I used to think online bullies were mostly male. I have long since realised that women have far more to gain from the anonymity the online environment affords their bullying than men do. *Anecdotal* though my anecdote is real for me.

Well done to you too Steve for educating your children to have the wit and intelligence to know what is what online! You are right to have your senses alerted though.

 

[granfire]

Good Grief, what were they playing (and how old are they)

I think there is a huge disconnect between online anonymity and real life, RL for short.

I don't put much stock in the unknown person abusing the medium to use words they would probably get in trouble for IRL.
When i come across some of those and feel bored enough I have my fun with them, which usually is something like 'I think your Mom is calling, you need to do your homework'
I do believe a lot of games have an ignore feature or a report option. I mean, even World of Warcraft, notorious for rough exchanges has a limit to what goes.


However, I am very weary when such things are being put on the net by people who actually cross my kid's path on a daily basis. I actually printed out an exchange off FB and took it to the principal!

One of the lessons to be learned on web usage is 'What do i care what a stranger on the net thinks about me'
That holds true for message boards as well.

 

[Steve]

Good Grief, what were they playing (and how old are they)

I think there is a huge disconnect between online anonymity and real life, RL for short.

I don't put much stock in the unknown person abusing the medium to use words they would probably get in trouble for IRL.
When i come across some of those and feel bored enough I have my fun with them, which usually is something like 'I think your Mom is calling, you need to do your homework'
I do believe a lot of games have an ignore feature or a report option. I mean, even World of Warcraft, notorious for rough exchanges has a limit to what goes.


However, I am very weary when such things are being put on the net by people who actually cross my kid's path on a daily basis. I actually printed out an exchange off FB and took it to the principal!

One of the lessons to be learned on web usage is 'What do i care what a stranger on the net thinks about me'
That holds true for message boards as well.

They're 14 and 15, Granfire, and they were playing Team Fortress 2. It's a cartoonish first person shooter. Very large servers with massive amounts of people playing at the same time. They were on a server that was basically where people go to rack up achievements and such. It was pretty hardcore.

The computers are in the living room and there's no right to online privacy in our house. I've also made it very clear to the kids exactly how easy it is for me to get their text messages and such from the phone company. I'm all for empowerment, and want them to be able to do their thing. At the same time, I don't want to be foolishly naive about it.

I made it very clear to my kids yesterday that I expect them to treat people online EXACTLY as they would treat them in person.

 

[Mike Melillo]

The most difficult part of this is seeing the Internet the way our kids do. To them, it's another form of entertainment, as they claim. But, we see it differently... It delivers their homework, it is one of their primary means of communication, it is instant gratification for any desire. They grew up with this advantage, and as they age, it will become even more important and essential. We keep seeing it as this big, bad place for them to get hurt, something all parents have felt about any advances their children have had over their own. It's perfectly natural to worry about things they know more about than we do.Having said that, however, if more and more of their contact is done through virtual communication, than we have no choice but to equate cyber bullying to the real thing. Because this is becoming their primary method of contact, it is just as injurious and hateful as what we perceive in the 'real' world. All we can do as parents is the very thing you did... Talk to them. Ask questions. Make them know you care about their exploits online and off. If you're concerned about what they do when you aren't looking, do what I do and establish an Internet curfew, when the modem goes off.

 

[granfire]

They're 14 and 15, Granfire, and they were playing Team Fortress 2. It's a cartoonish first person shooter. Very large servers with massive amounts of people playing at the same time. They were on a server that was basically where people go to rack up achievements and such. It was pretty hardcore.

The computers are in the living room and there's no right to online privacy in our house. I've also made it very clear to the kids exactly how easy it is for me to get their text messages and such from the phone company. I'm all for empowerment, and want them to be able to do their thing. At the same time, I don't want to be foolishly naive about it.

I made it very clear to my kids yesterday that I expect them to treat people online EXACTLY as they would treat them in person.

Ah, I am familiar with the game. I think it's one of the few ones where both sides are on the same chat channel. Makes for interesting gameplay.

It's smart to keep taps on net activity (I ought to be more vigilant, so far we do well, problems are brought up in conversation, plus he is playing with his buddies from school)

But it's nice of your kids, trying to shield you! :lol: You know, parents have never heard any bad words in their life! :lfao:

 

[Steve]

Ah, I am familiar with the game. I think it's one of the few ones where both sides are on the same chat channel. Makes for interesting gameplay.

It's smart to keep taps on net activity (I ought to be more vigilant, so far we do well, problems are brought up in conversation, plus he is playing with his buddies from school)

But it's nice of your kids, trying to shield you! :lol: You know, parents have never heard any bad words in their life! :lfao:

Bolded was actually the sweetest part of the entire conversation. They were genuinely concerned that I was... concerned. While it was clear that they didn't see it as any big deal, they were like, "Dad. Are you okay?"

But what about adults? In part, this got me thinking about MT. We have heated discussions and such, and I've shot off a post or two (ahem) that I might not have had I given some thought to it. So, I wonder what you guys think about online behavior, bullies and how it affects us here? We're mostly adults. I'd say most of us are established. Many are parents.

 

[granfire]

But what about adults? In part, this got me thinking about MT. We have heated discussions and such, and I've shot off a post or two (ahem) that I might not have had I given some thought to it. So, I wonder what you guys think about online behavior, bullies and how it affects us here? We're mostly adults. I'd say most of us are established. Many are parents.

Oh good grief...adults...they are such pansies!

I actually had more honest, straight forward discussions with people I knew to be in their teens and early twenties. On the other hand I have had so called adults whimper at the mere hint of disagreement with their opinion, claiming abuse. I cannot tell you how many times I was tempted to use a popular WoW phrase on them: 'Because you touch yourself at night' while hilarious in contact, it's a put down, for those not into gaming.

I do admit I tend to get impatient with people, so around the 10th time they try to sell the same old idea that has been rebutted 20 times before that. like old Candace on Phinieas and Ferb: butbutbutbut....

I have called people out on their hizzy fits, I have called them names. and I have earn my reprimands for it, too! ^_^

But generally I have to say that while I try my darndest not to write anything I would not say face to face, I find it hard because most people cannot adhere to that principle.

And of course, there is the problem between real life and online: If I disagree with somebody and let it bug me past walking away from the computer, then I am the idiot.
However, while spouting off on the net (excluding FB) has little to no consequences, if I tell somebody IRL who bugs me exactly what I think of him (I have an example in mind ) it has far reaching consequences, and while I am up for clear speak and straight talk, I don't want to make the ripples it will cast.

 

[Twin Fist]

that game draws adolescent jackasses like flies to crap

thats why i dont play it anymore, too many jerks.

I play WoW, and unless you are on a pvp server, it isnt like that.

that being said, we are so wussified as a people that now we are worried about so called "bullies" that cant even touch us?

give me a break.

I got bullied. ALOT by real people who were really larger than me, and guess what?

i lived, and it motivated me to get into martial arts.

we need to toughen up as a people, we need less woody allen and more frank sinatra

They're 14 and 15, Granfire, and they were playing Team Fortress 2. It's a cartoonish first person shooter. Very large servers with massive amounts of people playing at the same time. They were on a server that was basically where people go to rack up achievements and such. It was pretty hardcore.

The computers are in the living room and there's no right to online privacy in our house. I've also made it very clear to the kids exactly how easy it is for me to get their text messages and such from the phone company. I'm all for empowerment, and want them to be able to do their thing. At the same time, I don't want to be foolishly naive about it.

I made it very clear to my kids yesterday that I expect them to treat people online EXACTLY as they would treat them in person.

 

[granfire]

I play WoW, and unless you are on a pvp server, it isnt like that.

Right. oOn RP servers they go to Goldshire to cyber....

 

[Steve]

I seriously, genuinely hope I'm misunderstanding your post, and you didn't just call my kids "adolescent jackasses."

 

[granfire]

I seriously, genuinely hope I'm misunderstanding your post, and you didn't just call my kids "adolescent jackasses."

If your kids are, mine is, too.

Let's go party.

 

[Twin Fist]

not a bit. Only saying that there are a LOT of adolescent jackasses that play that game, and first person shooters in general. i dont know your kids so i cant say anything about their character, and since i dont make stuff up and pretend it is fact, i wouldnt comment as to thier character.

Anytime there is a PVP element ina game, it will draw the worst of the worst to it. PvP in wow is a good example, and ugh, dont even get me started on splinter cell co op.

I seriously, genuinely hope I'm misunderstanding your post, and you didn't just call my kids "adolescent jackasses."

 

[Steve]

not a bit. Only saying that there are a LOT of adolescent jackasses that play that game, and first person shooters in general. i dont know your kids so i cant say anything about their character, and since i dont make stuff up and pretend it is fact, i wouldnt comment as to thier character.

Anytime there is a PVP element ina game, it will draw the worst of the worst to it. PvP in wow is a good example, and ugh, dont even get me started on splinter cell co op.

For someone who says he speaks plainly, you don't.

Here's a serious question for you, Twin Fist. Have you ever considered that you are a bully?

When I say that my kids play a particular game, and then you say that game attracts a certain type of person, I draw what I think is a very reasonable conclusion. Kind of like when you call someone a lefty, and then say that the lefty's do horrible things. It's a cowardly tactic. Something that a bully would do.

So, in a way, thank you for demonstrating at least one behavior I'd say is indicative of an online bully.

 

[Twin Fist]

not shocked you saw that as an insult if you really did, (which i dont believe, i am pretty sure you are just claiming aggrieved status).

that game draws jackasses, (most 1st person shooters do)that your kids played it doesnt mean i was insulting them unless you want it to mean that. Particuarly after i said, IN ENGLISH that i didnt mean any such thing.

i couldnt be an "online bully" if i wanted to, since there is no such thing

none of us can be because this isnt real, it is words on a screen. bullies give you swirly's, THAT is what bullies do, they take your lunch money and give you wedgies.

not mocking replies to your posts...seriously

not shocked you see bullies everywhere though,....

all you are doing is once again throwing your personal insults in your typical passive agressive way to try and stay just inside the rules.

My posts are very clear and if you cant follow me, your reading comprehension is....not my problem.

either way, bored now.

 

[Monroe]

Twin fist - Clearly you haven't experienced female bullies in high school. They don't operate that way.