Bullying

[MJS]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39620074/ns/us_news-life

MENTOR, Ohio — Teachers and administrators confronting the issue of four bullied students who died by their own hands must get involved to end bullying, an attorney for grieving families said Monday.
Some of the student deaths followed bullying that was "incessant, it was constant, and the teachers and the administrators for whatever reason took a hands-off, laissez-faire approach and didn't get involved and stop this at its inception," Ken Myers said on NBC's "Today" show.
Families of victims told the NBC show there is a frightening pattern of bullying-related suicides in the district.
"They were little terrorists," Janis Mohat, whose son Eric shot himself in 2007, said on "Today." "They flicked his ear, they pushed him into lockers, they called him gay, fag. The bullies went up to him and said, 'Why don't you go home and shoot yourself? It's not like anyone would care.'"

I think its safe to say that stuff like this has existed for a long time. Its sad though, that its gotten to an extreme now, where kids are taking their own lives, because of it.

 

[Ken Morgan]

Sad.
Also is it any wonder why some kids bring weapons to school and shoot the ones they hold responsible?

 

[Big Don]

I can't help but think that today's kids haven't been served well by all the self-esteem stuff in schools.

 

[Carol]

This has been going on for a long time? Really?

Isn't that kind of like at a teenager who succumbed to injuries after getting his chest literally stomped on by gang members and saying that kids fight, and have been doing so for the longest time?

Because these cases have ended in suicide, they have gotten national attention, yet that attention seems to be accompanied by a bit of a dismissiveness (if that's a word...), as if the fallen youths were some how weak, and that is why they took their own lives.

I don't remember kids getting getting terms associated with anal sex tattooed on their *** by the hands of bullies when I was in high school in Chicago. Yet it happened right here in New Hampshire.

http://www.concordmonitor.com/article/217607/bully-to-serve-six-months

What will it take for people to realize that perhaps what is going on is something a bit more than kids squabbling on the playground?

 

[MJS]

This has been going on for a long time? Really?

Isn't that kind of like at a teenager who succumbed to injuries after getting his chest literally stomped on by gang members and saying that kids fight, and have been doing so for the longest time?

Because these cases have ended in suicide, they have gotten national attention, yet that attention seems to be accompanied by a bit of a dismissiveness (if that's a word...), as if the fallen youths were some how weak, and that is why they took their own lives.

I don't remember kids getting getting terms associated with anal sex tattooed on their *** by the hands of bullies when I was in high school in Chicago. Yet it happened right here in New Hampshire.

http://www.concordmonitor.com/article/217607/bully-to-serve-six-months

What will it take for people to realize that perhaps what is going on is something a bit more than kids squabbling on the playground?

Just to clarify and it looks like I owe an apology for my poor wording. Bullying, teasing, picking on others...this is nothing new. Whats new, is the fact that kids are now so distraught by it, that they're taking their own lives.

Did I have some people who gave me issues? Sure did. However, I'm still alive, typing this message today.

Its sad that a kid can't go to school, to learn, to get an education, without having someone torment them daily.

 

[Archangel M]

Kids cant bring plastic knives with their lunches, cant put toy soldiers on hats because of "zero weapon policies" and cant bring cough drops to school but **** like this goes on and the schools do nothing about it? What the holy flying ****?

 

[David43515]

Where are the teachers and school administrators who let the bullying go on this long w/o doing anything about it? Where are the bully`s parents who can`t rein thier kid in a bit when someone complains to them?

 

[Stac3y]

I can't help but think that today's kids haven't been served well by all the self-esteem stuff in schools.

That's because telling people they're wonderful just because they exist is a huge load of horse ****, and kids know that. True self-esteem comes from DOING things that make you proud of yourself, not just from "being yourself." I think it's great that schools try to concentrate on positive reinforcement and build kids' confidence, but to there has to be something to reinforce--that's what a lot of teachers miss.

 

[Archangel M]

This "self-esteem" stuff is in the same neighborhood as the "respect" crap kids spout. You EARN respect..you are not born entitled to it. Part of the entitlement culture IMO.

 

[Steve]

I don't have a problem with teaching kids that it's a good thing to respect other people. I do, however, feel like a broken record when I say that as long as we treat the symptoms (kids who are bullied) and avoid addressing the disease (why the bullies bully) we will continue to have these kinds of problems.

There are two sides of the coin here, and as a society we consistently fail to address them both. We have kids who are bullied, and we need to help them. We also have kids who bully, and they need help, too... hopefully well before the bullying escalates to anything resembling these news stories.

While it's easy to sympathize with a bullied child, and it's difficult to sympathize with a bully, until we accept that they are all children who need help, this cycle will continue.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Scuicides have been going on for a long time. I doubt that bullying was not the cause for a large percentage of them. Our sensationalism about bullying is what is new.
Sean

 

[Steve]

Scuicides have been going on for a long time. I doubt that bullying was not the cause for a large percentage of them. Our sensationalism about bullying is what is new.
Sean

I'm having trouble understanding your second sentence. Are you saying that you believe bullying was the cause for a large percentage of teen suicides or that bullying doesn't lead to suicide? The way it reads, it looks like you're suggesting that bullying is the cause for a large percentage of teen suicides, and if so, I'd agree.

Suicide is a result of ongoing, clinical depression. Teens experience depression largely in only a few different ways: physical or mental illness, drug addiction, family trouble (abuse, divorce, etc), and rejection or fear of rejection by peers (including bullying and coping with homosexuality). Suicide is the third leading cause of death among teenagers, with car accidents being first and homocide being second. It's a big deal.

And in 2010, I think it's a real damned shame that kids who are struggling with the idea that they are gay are still being demonized to the point that they can't envision a life in which they could be happy and healthy.

A close friend committed suicide in our sophomore year because of home issues and another close friend took his life in our senior year because of how his parents and some peers reacted when he told them he was gay.

I disagree completely that anyone is sensationalizing bullying. If anything, I don't think we're making a big enough deal about it. With kids being as plugged in as they are, constantly barraged by input and commentary from their peers, it's critical for parents to be aware of what their kids are into.

Once again, I just think that most kids bully and most kids are bullied to some degree or another. If it gets to the point where a child is bullying another child to the point that suicide is involved, we've failed both of those kids completely. One is dead and the other's life is basically ruined.

 

[MJS]

Scuicides have been going on for a long time. I doubt that bullying was not the cause for a large percentage of them. Our sensationalism about bullying is what is new.
Sean

I agree....people didn't start bullying or killing themselves today...its been going on for a long time. But, what seems to be the new thing, is that kids are now killing themselves because of this. Like I said, I've seen bullying in school, but I never saw anyone kill themselves because of it, or come to school with a gun and blow the accused people/person away.

 

[Archangel M]

It's from an overdeveloped sense of self-worth. Nobody has ever LIKED being bullied, but it never crushed me to the point of murder or suicide. Why do todays kids seem so wrapped up in their sense of self worth that this now seems like an all too frequented option?

 

[Master Dan]

I don't have a problem with teaching kids that it's a good thing to respect other people. I do, however, feel like a broken record when I say that as long as we treat the symptoms (kids who are bullied) and avoid addressing the disease (why the bullies bully) we will continue to have these kinds of problems.

There are two sides of the coin here, and as a society we consistently fail to address them both. We have kids who are bullied, and we need to help them. We also have kids who bully, and they need help, too... hopefully well before the bullying escalates to anything resembling these news stories.

While it's easy to sympathize with a bullied child, and it's difficult to sympathize with a bully, until we accept that they are all children who need help, this cycle will continue.

I agree with you but the first priority is to protect the inocent first. The real problem is Parents!!! both sides. Schools have stopped teaching and become social engineering off track. I have seen teachers quite or leave becasue administrations would not allow them to dicipline violent students or even protect themselves from the students. I have also seen teachers so worn out they have become abusive. One or two people have a child but it takes a community to raise them. Parents need to teach thier children about how to deal with bullies and have enough self worth to realize how to not let it get them down. They have to take teachers administration to task even court if needed. My students all know they belong to me protected by me. Sometimes talk works other times not. Ive told some boy bullies I have a 12 year old girl that is going to kick you *** right in front of your friends if you do not leave these kids alone. It worked because the pier presure of being beaten by a girl was to horible to think about. In other cases I will exhaust all legal remedies first including talking to the parents but if that will not work I will put that kid down what ever it takes to get it through thier head don't do it again.

Many of the bullies are acting out due to abuse or neglet in thier own lives. They have no respect for anyone or property becasue they have no respect for themselves.

Our schools have been turned into day cares putting parenting and behavior health isssues on the backs of the teachers who do not have the time or education in those fields. Our schools have always had special ed. or special needs departments we need to develop a third department in the schools,behavior health and life skills for those who do not have it so the other kids that want to get an education can in a challenging, inspiring and safe environment that teaches how to learn not just monkey see monkey do to meet some No Kid left behind crap that has failed

 

[MA-Caver]

Where are the teachers and school administrators who let the bullying go on this long w/o doing anything about it? Where are the bully`s parents who can't rein their kid in a bit when someone complains to them?

Because most likely the bullies are being bullied at home, and a cycle begins or continues. Dad goes off on the kid, kid takes it out on weaker kid, weaker kid (or parent) complains, bully gets disciplinary action and gets punished at home and it just goes 'round and 'round. But not always true and not in every case.

This "self-esteem" stuff is in the same neighborhood as the "respect" crap kids spout. You EARN respect..you are not born entitled to it. Part of the entitlement culture IMO.

That is true and I would apply that to inner cities and densely populated areas. But out in the country I don't think it's as prevalent... it's THERE alright but in my own personal experience mostly proving one's self is done via other means.

I agree....people didn't start bullying or killing themselves today...its been going on for a long time. But, what seems to be the new thing, is that kids are now killing themselves because of this. Like I said, I've seen bullying in school, but I never saw anyone kill themselves because of it, or come to school with a gun and blow the accused people/person away.

As a victim of bullying I used to cry and whine and complain and found myself sitting in the principal or guidance counselor's office many a day or was sent home because I gotten the crap beaten out of me. Why I got the crap beaten out of me was because I fought back or responded with emotional violence. Now-a-days this would've gotten me an overdose of Ritalin. But there were days where I didn't WANT to go to school and a couple of bad days I recall where I thought death was preferable. Of course I later started learning MA/SD and gotten better at fighting back and found that by fighting back I was left pretty much alone and the bullies sought out easier prey. {BREAK} It's a power trip, a control thing. A need for control where they (the bullies) don't have any outside of school. As I mentioned sometimes bullies are bullied themselves when they get home. A dominant parent or older sibling making their lives miserable. How is a child supposed to deal with that? Act out... act out their own frustration, fears, anger, humiliation, pain, guilt on some other hapless kid who is bee-bopping along happy with life because they got good folks a good life and all is well where-ever they are. Jealousy, envy, bitterness and an instinctual awareness of weakness gives the bully or potential bully a method of selecting their prey. {BREAK} Sometimes bullies can come from a good home, some have a sense of empowerment given by their (parent's) social status or their peers and thus they feed off that power by picking on others who are (erronenously) perceived as lesser beings. {BREAK} Sometimes when I was called/sent/dragged/carried/helped into the (school) office(s) I was given the thought that it was indeed MY FAULT! that it happened. I said something wrong, or I overreacted or whatever. I don't know of any kids when I was growing up that killed themselves because of bullying. I do know that a lot of them became successful and a lot of them toughened up or simply got over it and moved on. A lot of them became alcoholics or drug addicts or sought diversions elsewhere.... either way killing themselves was either not an option or not a preferred one. Somehow each of them managed to find a non-lethal way to deal with the pain. {BREAK} That is what needs to be done with the victims of bullies and if necessary the bullies themselves.

 

[Steve]

It's from an overdeveloped sense of self-worth. Nobody has ever LIKED being bullied, but it never crushed me to the point of murder or suicide. Why do todays kids seem so wrapped up in their sense of self worth that this now seems like an all too frequented option?

Are you kidding me? You're seriously suggesting that kids commit suicide because they have an overdeveloped sense of self worth?

 

[Steve]

I agree with you but the first priority is to protect the inocent first. The real problem is Parents!!! both sides. Schools have stopped teaching and become social engineering off track. I have seen teachers quite or leave becasue administrations would not allow them to dicipline violent students or even protect themselves from the students. I have also seen teachers so worn out they have become abusive. One or two people have a child but it takes a community to raise them. Parents need to teach thier children about how to deal with bullies and have enough self worth to realize how to not let it get them down. They have to take teachers administration to task even court if needed. My students all know they belong to me protected by me. Sometimes talk works other times not. Ive told some boy bullies I have a 12 year old girl that is going to kick you *** right in front of your friends if you do not leave these kids alone. It worked because the pier presure of being beaten by a girl was to horible to think about. In other cases I will exhaust all legal remedies first including talking to the parents but if that will not work I will put that kid down what ever it takes to get it through thier head don't do it again.

Many of the bullies are acting out due to abuse or neglet in thier own lives. They have no respect for anyone or property becasue they have no respect for themselves.

Our schools have been turned into day cares putting parenting and behavior health isssues on the backs of the teachers who do not have the time or education in those fields. Our schools have always had special ed. or special needs departments we need to develop a third department in the schools,behavior health and life skills for those who do not have it so the other kids that want to get an education can in a challenging, inspiring and safe environment that teaches how to learn not just monkey see monkey do to meet some No Kid left behind crap that has failed

I don't think we disagree too much. I just believe that in a situation where one kid bullies the other, they're both victims. Ultimately, when it gets to the point where kids are grievously harming each other or themselves, just about every adult and role model in those kids' lives has to shoulder some amount of responsibility for it. Parents, school teachers, administrators, counselors, doctors, coaches and whoever else was involved.

 

[MJS]

As a victim of bullying I used to cry and whine and complain and found myself sitting in the principal or guidance counselor's office many a day or was sent home because I gotten the crap beaten out of me. Why I got the crap beaten out of me was because I fought back or responded with emotional violence. Now-a-days this would've gotten me an overdose of Ritalin. But there were days where I didn't WANT to go to school and a couple of bad days I recall where I thought death was preferable. Of course I later started learning MA/SD and gotten better at fighting back and found that by fighting back I was left pretty much alone and the bullies sought out easier prey. {BREAK} It's a power trip, a control thing. A need for control where they (the bullies) don't have any outside of school. As I mentioned sometimes bullies are bullied themselves when they get home. A dominant parent or older sibling making their lives miserable. How is a child supposed to deal with that? Act out... act out their own frustration, fears, anger, humiliation, pain, guilt on some other hapless kid who is bee-bopping along happy with life because they got good folks a good life and all is well where-ever they are. Jealousy, envy, bitterness and an instinctual awareness of weakness gives the bully or potential bully a method of selecting their prey. {BREAK} Sometimes bullies can come from a good home, some have a sense of empowerment given by their (parent's) social status or their peers and thus they feed off that power by picking on others who are (erronenously) perceived as lesser beings. {BREAK} Sometimes when I was called/sent/dragged/carried/helped into the (school) office(s) I was given the thought that it was indeed MY FAULT! that it happened. I said something wrong, or I overreacted or whatever. I don't know of any kids when I was growing up that killed themselves because of bullying. I do know that a lot of them became successful and a lot of them toughened up or simply got over it and moved on. A lot of them became alcoholics or drug addicts or sought diversions elsewhere.... either way killing themselves was either not an option or not a preferred one. Somehow each of them managed to find a non-lethal way to deal with the pain. {BREAK} That is what needs to be done with the victims of bullies and if necessary the bullies themselves.

I think we're pretty much on the same page here. Just so theres no confusion, I'm not saying that bullying is ok. I do feel that its a shame that kids today are taking it to this level...where someone will get pushed to the breaking point, where they take their own life.

I too, was bullied in school and a few issues on the bus. I managed to ignore a good portion of it and fortunately, that worked. There were some cases, in which my mother was livid and told my father to go to the school. He did a few times. Of course, when he walked into the office, he got the usual sppech that nobody was available, blah, blah....so he walked right into the office, and of course, someone was available. The issues stopped.

Kids shouldn't be afraid to talk to their parents. If kids are showing signs, ie: skipping school, saying they dont want to go, etc, this should be a sign for parents to ask whats going on. The school should be providing a safe environment for kids to learn.

 

[Archangel M]

Are you kidding me? You're seriously suggesting that kids commit suicide because they have an overdeveloped sense of self worth?

In the sense that embarrassment, or an assault on their self-esteem results in shootings or suicide?

Yup.