Training Partner Rant

Em MacIntosh

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So far, it sounds to me like you've been lucky. I've seen someone lose a nose ring the hard way (hooked and ripped clean through the nostril) in a sparring accident. I think it hooked on the glove or finger or something to that effect. The class was taking it slow too. It sounds like you are compassionate and understanding, so you don't want to become bitter or resentful toward each other. I would suggest clearly stating the possibilities of severity of the injury and give him an ultimatum if necessary. If anyone counters with the "then why do you come to class with a piercing? Why don't you take it out?" or "that's why we don't get piercings in ___" [not sure what martial art you take, but you mentioned a sifu, so I'm assuming some kind of wushu (yes, kung fu)], then I suggest telling them that it's the 21st century and that you have a life as well, not to mention that you DO take it seriously. All I can reccomend is to be diplomatic and assertive. It might, unfortunately, just be one of those problems that there is no un-painful solution. Best of luck to you.
 

jdinca

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Yeah but you gotta be careful with the groin shots. He may have a piercing down there
icon7.gif
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:xtrmshock I've never understood that...
 
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Jade Tigress

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Well guys, I logged off for a while and wondered if I was being whiney baby.

Ya know, I'm really easy to get along with and I don't make a habit of whining or complaining. I have gotten lightly tapped on the nose by others and you know what? No big deal. It was controlled. But last night, after 4 weeks of asking him to AIM FOR THE CHIN, I got HIT, not tapped, HIT hard on the nose. Is it too much to ask to use a little control and aim for the chin, or am I really whining more than venting? And be honest. The last thing I want is to be a cry baby. If you see it, tell me and I'll shut up and deal with it.

Em MacIntosh, I am training Southern Praying Mantis kung fu. And yes, this is the 21st century and I do have a life. :)

Thanks again everybody, for your words of wisdom and giving me some things to think about. Rant done. Whining done. Crying done. :asian:
 

kidswarrior

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Well guys, I logged off for a while and wondered if I was being whiney baby.

Is it too much to ask to use a little control and aim for the chin, or am I really whining more than venting? And be honest. The last thing I want is to be a cry baby. If you see it, tell me and I'll shut up and deal with it.

No, you're not whining. No, it's not too much to ask. If the guy doesn't have the control for doing light drills, he probably shouldn't be making any contact at all. If he were my student and I saw what you're describing, especially for several weeks, I would warn him in very strong terms, and failing that, probably tell him No Contact until he progresses further in his skill level. JMHO.
 

Bigshadow

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That being said, he prefers to move very quickly, while I prefer to go more slowly and do the technique properly, rather than go too fast, end up sloppy, and get poor technique into muscle memory.

Sounds like your doing it right to me!
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I believe he should be matching your speed. If you are going at one speed and he another, that is a problem.


Last night we're training, as I said, he likes to move fast and hard, and I'm trying to move to a slower pace. I got popped hard in the nose. Dammit. So, I keep training, and I'm throwing my punches slower, and he's in a rhythm and anticipating, so I threw a fast punch and hit him right in the mouth. Boy was he surprised. I said, "Oh, I'm sorry." I could tell it hurt too. heh. :D

Great! Good for you! He needs to be matching your speed. Just how good is he, really? To be honest here... I would question his control if he cannot match your speed JMO.

He doesn't even make the connection. He actually blamed me saying, "you were going slower and then threw a fast one."

Another clue, he doesn't recognize he is doing the same thing...

He really doesn't mean any harm, but how the hell do I get across to just let me train. I appreciate the feedback.

In my honest opinion he isn't helping your training at all. I don't know how much I would appreciate his feedback under the circumstances.

Yeah, you know what? I'm learning. I'm gonna miss sometimes, and I don't need the crap beat out of my arms every week because you insist on moving so fast you can't help but bang them.


Just be blunt, I would. Tell him first, match your speed or go slower. Then follow that up with what you said toward the end (above). If that don't work. Switch partners.

Just my opinions (not knowing your art).

Did I say "match your speed" too many times? :p
 

DavidCC

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I'm guess I'm wondering - if he had shown perfection in control and targeting and target penetration etc until you got pierced, and now suddenly he has lost control? Maybe he just finds it too sexy and can't concentrate :D

if his control was never that good, and it just hurts more now because of the new piercing, then this really has nothing at all to do with the piercing...


-D
 

Kacey

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I do appreciate all the advice. I'm going to ask my Sifu for suggestions. :asian:

See, this is where I'd have started! While I do understand Brian's point - I have trained with injuries, and my sahbum was very clear about what level of control he expected from partners when one person was injured. The last person with a fresh piercing (and it was her nose, as I recall) was asked to put a small bandaid over it, both as a minor protection and as a visual reminder to others - the bandaid was a lot more visible than the stud.
 

Steel Tiger

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Well guys, I logged off for a while and wondered if I was being whiney baby.

Ya know, I'm really easy to get along with and I don't make a habit of whining or complaining. I have gotten lightly tapped on the nose by others and you know what? No big deal. It was controlled. But last night, after 4 weeks of asking him to AIM FOR THE CHIN, I got HIT, not tapped, HIT hard on the nose. Is it too much to ask to use a little control and aim for the chin, or am I really whining more than venting? And be honest. The last thing I want is to be a cry baby. If you see it, tell me and I'll shut up and deal with it.

Em MacIntosh, I am training Southern Praying Mantis kung fu. And yes, this is the 21st century and I do have a life. :)

Thanks again everybody, for your words of wisdom and giving me some things to think about. Rant done. Whining done. Crying done. :asian:

You know, the first thing that occurred to me was brought on by you saying your both the same rank, but he has been at the level longer.

My thought was this; perhaps there is some kind of resentment of your quick progress, not conscious, and possibly your deliberate learning style is revealing some weaknesses in his technique which are exacerbating that resentment. The result bing he is not listening when you ask him to avoid your nose.

Just a thought.
 

morph4me

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I still think that doing your drills with everyone else without safety gear, and then putting it on when you have to work with him will send a visible message, to everyone, and maybe it will sink in.
 

exile

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You know, the first thing that occurred to me was brought on by you saying your both the same rank, but he has been at the level longer.

My thought was this; perhaps there is some kind of resentment of your quick progress, not conscious, and possibly your deliberate learning style is revealing some weaknesses in his technique which are exacerbating that resentment. The result bing he is not listening when you ask him to avoid your nose.

Just a thought.

Pam, I think that Kidswarrior, Flying Crane and a number of other people have made very pertinent and constructive observations. But this post of ST's really nails what may be the actual problem. Look at it this way: you'd have said something to us if this guy was, um, a bit thick or a few bricks short of a load, right? So I think we're allowed to assume that the problem isn't a shortage of normal intelligence. Yet here's something you've been saying to him for weeks, that you might as well have been telling him in Greek, for all the attention he pays to it. But it can't be that he doesn't really understand what you've been saying. So the most likely conclusion is that he's deliberately disregarding it. I'm not saying he's doing that consciously... but somehow the information doesn't wind up affecting his choice of how to drill with you.

The only way I can make any sense of this is to imagine something along the lines that Steel Tiger's suggesting. He's trying to show you something, all right—that you have no business being at the same rank as he is after having spent a good deal less time to get to that point than he has. Again, almost certainly not consciously. But I'd love to bet everything I own, at even odds, that that's a big part of what's involved.

This creates a problem for you, because if it's really the case that that's what's going on, he's not gonna stop, and nothing you can do or say is going to get through to him. I suspect it's time to call in help from the top. You really can't afford to get injured near that piercing, and this guy sounds as though his ruffled ego is a more important consideration to him than your safety and well-being. :angry:

I really, really hope that you'll reconsider working with him in future...
 

IWishToLearn

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Heh yo Ex clear out yer pm's mang. :)

On a totally unrelated note - everything in moderation, with emphasis on reality training. :)
 

exile

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Heh yo Ex clear out yer pm's mang. :)

Sorry Steve—second time today I've been admonished—it's been a very hectic day, been doing hit and run posting... the weekend will give me a bit of breathing space... meanwhile, will clean out my locker pronto...
 

Tez3

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Pam, I think that Kidswarrior, Flying Crane and a number of other people have made very pertinent and constructive observations. But this post of ST's really nails what may be the actual problem. Look at it this way: you'd have said something to us if this guy was, um, a bit thick or a few bricks short of a load, right? So I think we're allowed to assume that the problem isn't a shortage of normal intelligence. Yet here's something you've been saying to him for weeks, that you might as well have been telling him in Greek, for all the attention he pays to it. But it can't be that he doesn't really understand what you've been saying. So the most likely conclusion is that he's deliberately disregarding it. I'm not saying he's doing that consciously... but somehow the information doesn't wind up affecting his choice of how to drill with you.

The only way I can make any sense of this is to imagine something along the lines that Steel Tiger's suggesting. He's trying to show you something, all right—that you have no business being at the same rank as he is after having spent a good deal less time to get to that point than he has. Again, almost certainly not consciously. But I'd love to bet everything I own, at even odds, that that's a big part of what's involved.

This creates a problem for you, because if it's really the case that that's what's going on, he's not gonna stop, and nothing you can do or say is going to get through to him. I suspect it's time to call in help from the top. You really can't afford to get injured near that piercing, and this guy sounds as though his ruffled ego is a more important consideration to him than your safety and well-being. :angry:

I really, really hope that you'll reconsider working with him in future...


Exile, excellent post! ( tried to give rep but said I couldn't, sorry!)

I think some posters have been too severe on Jade Tigress who is most definitely not whinging! Okay the piercing is a choice but what on earth is wrong with a little consideration? Certainly if I were asked not to hit a certain part of the anatomy for whatever reason whether sparring or doing techniques I don't see any reason why I wouldn't respect that request. It's not as big a deal as some posters seem to think it is. A couple of our guys have had nipples pierced ( ouch!) and as we do MMA we've gone easy on their chests until it's healed but no one has got po faced about it!
 

Laurentkd

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Thanks guys. I've tried, really. I've told him I'm not afraid to get hit. I told him I've been hit before. His reply? "How long has it been?" Like I forgot what it feels like. :rolleyes: I've repeatedly said, "Aim for the chin! Aim for the chin!"

Anyway, I have tried being very clear with him, but he is not getting it. Plus, part of it is his own lack of control that he may be trying to cover with "not going easy on me".

But damn, it felt good to get that out! :D


Do you know if he DOES aim for the chin?? Because if he is and he is hitting your nose everytime he is the one that needs to slow down so he can actually hit the target he is aiming for. Figure out a way to use that to your advantage. Ask him to aim for the chin, and when he hits you in the nose call him on it. Somehow make him realize he is the one that needs to slow down because he is completely missing the target he is aiming for. My juices don't seem to be flowing right now, I can't think of a creative way to get him to realize this, maybe someone else can pick this up and follow through with some proper advice....

If you can at least get him to aim for the chin and actually hit the chin, you'll still have to deal with getting hit, but at least you have taken care of problem one by not getting hit in the nose!
 

Laurentkd

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Pam, I think that Kidswarrior, Flying Crane and a number of other people have made very pertinent and constructive observations. But this post of ST's really nails what may be the actual problem. Look at it this way: you'd have said something to us if this guy was, um, a bit thick or a few bricks short of a load, right? So I think we're allowed to assume that the problem isn't a shortage of normal intelligence. Yet here's something you've been saying to him for weeks, that you might as well have been telling him in Greek, for all the attention he pays to it. But it can't be that he doesn't really understand what you've been saying. So the most likely conclusion is that he's deliberately disregarding it. I'm not saying he's doing that consciously... but somehow the information doesn't wind up affecting his choice of how to drill with you.

The only way I can make any sense of this is to imagine something along the lines that Steel Tiger's suggesting. He's trying to show you something, all right—that you have no business being at the same rank as he is after having spent a good deal less time to get to that point than he has. Again, almost certainly not consciously. But I'd love to bet everything I own, at even odds, that that's a big part of what's involved.

This creates a problem for you, because if it's really the case that that's what's going on, he's not gonna stop, and nothing you can do or say is going to get through to him. I suspect it's time to call in help from the top. You really can't afford to get injured near that piercing, and this guy sounds as though his ruffled ego is a more important consideration to him than your safety and well-being. :angry:

I really, really hope that you'll reconsider working with him in future...


I should have read all the posts before posting! I think this (and others) are right on. Hope it all works out!!
 

Tez3

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Do you know if he DOES aim for the chin?? Because if he is and he is hitting your nose everytime he is the one that needs to slow down so he can actually hit the target he is aiming for. Figure out a way to use that to your advantage. Ask him to aim for the chin, and when he hits you in the nose call him on it. Somehow make him realize he is the one that needs to slow down because he is completely missing the target he is aiming for. My juices don't seem to be flowing right now, I can't think of a creative way to get him to realize this, maybe someone else can pick this up and follow through with some proper advice....

If you can at least get him to aim for the chin and actually hit the chin, you'll still have to deal with getting hit, but at least you have taken care of problem one by not getting hit in the nose!


How about hitting him on the chin a lot (hard!) and saying everytime, this is a chin, this is a chin lol!
 

Xue Sheng

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He really doesn't mean any harm, but how the hell do I get across to just let me train. I appreciate the feedback. I appreciate knowing when the technique felt right to him. I appreciate if he switches it up so I don't get into a rhythm. How do I get across that I am there to TRAIN, not get popped to teach me a lesson. Yeah, you know what? I'm learning. I'm gonna miss sometimes, and I don't need the crap beat out of my arms every week because you insist on moving so fast you can't help but bang them.

*sigh*

Rant over.

Jade

SPM or not, exactly where is the school located, what time is class and what is his name….. never mind I don’t need his name… to me he is just another tree.:EG:

Sorry I missed this post and did not respond sooner

You have got some good advice here and my only answer is to explain the situation to him in GREAT detail, but it sounds like you have already done this. And if that fails…well…. hit back…often and hard. Also you may want to discuss this with your sifu as well.

Yes it is a martial arts class and yes WE all want reality but the reality is that speed does not make up for bad form or lack of control and the “You can’t be afraid to be hit” stuff gets old FAST from the person that is hitting you due to his lack of control.

Your training partner need to slow down so he can understand the applications that he is doing and gain the control needed to actually use them should the need ever arise.

It sounds, at least to me that he does not have a grasp on the applications you are training. That or he is clueless as to the applications you are training.

I am going to ask you a couple of questions and please be completely honest here and do not be humble about it. And I do not expect you to answer, just think about it and answer it to yourself.

He has been there longer than you and you are both at the same rank

How long did it take him to get to this rank and how long did it take you?

Did he not get promoted last time for some reason or was he not tested?

Are you better or as good at SPM that he is?

I am wondering, the nice guy stuff aside, if there is not a little unfriendly competition going on here since you have already told him what you do NOT want him to do and it continues.
 

Xue Sheng

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Pam

Interesting thing happened in Xingyi today.

My sifu was telling us all to slow down. We need to get the foundation first we need to work on the technique. If we do that power and speed will follow. But speed without technique is messy and without power.

Maybe your training partner need to think about this as well

Just thought I should post that here.

XS
 

mantis

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I just need to vent a little.

I train with this really nice guy and he doesn't mean any harm and he's not being a macho *** or anything like that. When we do our drills he is very intense and in his words, "doesn't go easy on me". We are the same rank but he has been at the level longer than me and is better than me. That being said, he prefers to move very quickly, while I prefer to go more slowly and do the technique properly, rather than go too fast, end up sloppy, and get poor technique into muscle memory.

I understand he is trying to "help" me improve and I appreciate his feedback. However, as most of you know I recently got my nose pierced. It takes 3 months before I can change the jewelry and at a least a year to fully heal. I asked him to be careful of my nose several times. Getting hit in the nose could cause granulomas (small lumps which form around the piercing). It is the most common problem in healing and it usually occurs because the piercing has been knocked, or the jewelry has been taken out and re-inserted damaging the wound.

So anyway, I have asked him several times to not hit my nose. I am learning, these are drills, I'm gonna miss sometimes. I said "aim for the chin, aim for the chin". Well, he has hit me in the nose, hard, on a few occasions and it has made me "gun shy". Pulling back. Then I get the old "don't be afraid to get hit". Well, I'M NOT AFRAID TO GET HIT. I've been hit. I can handle it. I'm afraid of missing while I'M STILL LEARNING A NEW TECHINIQUE AND GETTING HIT IN THE 4 WEEK OLD PIERCING ON MY NOSE!!!

Last night we're training, as I said, he likes to move fast and hard, and I'm trying to move to a slower pace. I got popped hard in the nose. Dammit. So, I keep training, and I'm throwing my punches slower, and he's in a rhythm and anticipating, so I threw a fast punch and hit him right in the mouth. Boy was he surprised. I said, "Oh, I'm sorry." I could tell it hurt too. heh. :D

He doesn't even make the connection. He actually blamed me saying, "you were going slower and then threw a fast one." Well gee, I was just trying to "help" you train. :angel: Shouldn't be anticipating you know. Don't get into a rhythm. Watch for the punch.

He really doesn't mean any harm, but how the hell do I get across to just let me train. I appreciate the feedback. I appreciate knowing when the technique felt right to him. I appreciate if he switches it up so I don't get into a rhythm. How do I get across that I am there to TRAIN, not get popped to teach me a lesson. Yeah, you know what? I'm learning. I'm gonna miss sometimes, and I don't need the crap beat out of my arms every week because you insist on moving so fast you can't help but bang them.

*sigh*

Rant over.

wear something to cover your nose like basketball players wear. Also hit him in the nuts a few times, fast and hard so it jogs his brains a bit and makes him start thinking of what you said to him. and also say "dont afraid to be hit".
 

Xue Sheng

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wear something to cover your nose like basketball players wear. Also hit him in the nuts a few times, fast and hard so it jogs his brains a bit and makes him start thinking of what you said to him. and also say "dont afraid to be hit".

Oh man that’s a GREAT idea.... I suggest a fencing mask.... I hit one of those bad boys just lightly and kidding around once.... DAMN that thing cut my knuckles all to hell, and that was just with a light tap.

And DEFINITLY… you have to constantly say "don’t afraid to be hit". :uhyeah:
 
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