Training Partner Rant

[Jade Tigress]

I just need to vent a little.

I train with this really nice guy and he doesn't mean any harm and he's not being a macho *** or anything like that. When we do our drills he is very intense and in his words, "doesn't go easy on me". We are the same rank but he has been at the level longer than me and is better than me. That being said, he prefers to move very quickly, while I prefer to go more slowly and do the technique properly, rather than go too fast, end up sloppy, and get poor technique into muscle memory.

I understand he is trying to "help" me improve and I appreciate his feedback. However, as most of you know I recently got my nose pierced. It takes 3 months before I can change the jewelry and at a least a year to fully heal. I asked him to be careful of my nose several times. Getting hit in the nose could cause granulomas (small lumps which form around the piercing). It is the most common problem in healing and it usually occurs because the piercing has been knocked, or the jewelry has been taken out and re-inserted damaging the wound.

So anyway, I have asked him several times to not hit my nose. I am learning, these are drills, I'm gonna miss sometimes. I said "aim for the chin, aim for the chin". Well, he has hit me in the nose, hard, on a few occasions and it has made me "gun shy". Pulling back. Then I get the old "don't be afraid to get hit". Well, I'M NOT AFRAID TO GET HIT. I've been hit. I can handle it. I'm afraid of missing while I'M STILL LEARNING A NEW TECHINIQUE AND GETTING HIT IN THE 4 WEEK OLD PIERCING ON MY NOSE!!!

Last night we're training, as I said, he likes to move fast and hard, and I'm trying to move to a slower pace. I got popped hard in the nose. Dammit. So, I keep training, and I'm throwing my punches slower, and he's in a rhythm and anticipating, so I threw a fast punch and hit him right in the mouth. Boy was he surprised. I said, "Oh, I'm sorry." I could tell it hurt too. heh.

He doesn't even make the connection. He actually blamed me saying, "you were going slower and then threw a fast one." Well gee, I was just trying to "help" you train. :angel: Shouldn't be anticipating you know. Don't get into a rhythm. Watch for the punch.

He really doesn't mean any harm, but how the hell do I get across to just let me train. I appreciate the feedback. I appreciate knowing when the technique felt right to him. I appreciate if he switches it up so I don't get into a rhythm. How do I get across that I am there to TRAIN, not get popped to teach me a lesson. Yeah, you know what? I'm learning. I'm gonna miss sometimes, and I don't need the crap beat out of my arms every week because you insist on moving so fast you can't help but bang them.

*sigh*

Rant over.

 

[Drac]

Try using the exact words in your last paragraph...Looked pretty clear to me...

 

[IWishToLearn]

I just need to vent a little.

I train with this really nice guy and he doesn't mean any harm and he's not being a macho *** or anything like that. When we do our drills he is very intense and in his words, "doesn't go easy on me". We are the same rank but he has been at the level longer than me and is better than me. That being said, he prefers to move very quickly, while I prefer to go more slowly and do the technique properly, rather than go too fast, end up sloppy, and get poor technique into muscle memory.

I understand he is trying to "help" me improve and I appreciate his feedback. However, as most of you know I recently got my nose pierced. It takes 3 months before I can change the jewelry and at a least a year to fully heal. I asked him to be careful of my nose several times. Getting hit in the nose could cause granulomas (small lumps which form around the piercing). It is the most common problem in healing and it usually occurs because the piercing has been knocked, or the jewelry has been taken out and re-inserted damaging the wound.

So anyway, I have asked him several times to not hit my nose. I am learning, these are drills, I'm gonna miss sometimes. I said "aim for the chin, aim for the chin". Well, he has hit me in the nose, hard, on a few occasions and it has made me "gun shy". Pulling back. Then I get the old "don't be afraid to get hit". Well, I'M NOT AFRAID TO GET HIT. I've been hit. I can handle it. I'm afraid of missing while I'M STILL LEARNING A NEW TECHINIQUE AND GETTING HIT IN THE 4 WEEK OLD PIERCING ON MY NOSE!!!

Last night we're training, as I said, he likes to move fast and hard, and I'm trying to move to a slower pace. I got popped hard in the nose. Dammit. So, I keep training, and I'm throwing my punches slower, and he's in a rhythm and anticipating, so I threw a fast punch and hit him right in the mouth. Boy was he surprised. I said, "Oh, I'm sorry." I could tell it hurt too. heh.

He doesn't even make the connection. He actually blamed me saying, "you were going slower and then threw a fast one." Well gee, I was just trying to "help" you train. :angel: Shouldn't be anticipating you know. Don't get into a rhythm. Watch for the punch.

He really doesn't mean any harm, but how the hell do I get across to just let me train. I appreciate the feedback. I appreciate knowing when the technique felt right to him. I appreciate if he switches it up so I don't get into a rhythm. How do I get across that I am there to TRAIN, not get popped to teach me a lesson. Yeah, you know what? I'm learning. I'm gonna miss sometimes, and I don't need the crap beat out of my arms every week because you insist on moving so fast you can't help but bang them.

*sigh*

Rant over.

I'm in agreement with Drac! That's EXACTLY how you should tell him.

 

[Jade Tigress]

Thanks guys. I've tried, really. I've told him I'm not afraid to get hit. I told him I've been hit before. His reply? "How long has it been?" Like I forgot what it feels like. I've repeatedly said, "Aim for the chin! Aim for the chin!"

Anyway, I have tried being very clear with him, but he is not getting it. Plus, part of it is his own lack of control that he may be trying to cover with "not going easy on me".

But damn, it felt good to get that out!

 

[bluemtn]

I just need to vent a little.

He really doesn't mean any harm, but how the hell do I get across to just let me train. I appreciate the feedback. I appreciate knowing when the technique felt right to him. I appreciate if he switches it up so I don't get into a rhythm. How do I get across that I am there to TRAIN, not get popped to teach me a lesson. Yeah, you know what? I'm learning. I'm gonna miss sometimes, and I don't need the crap beat out of my arms every week because you insist on moving so fast you can't help but bang them.

*sigh*

Rant over.

Try using the exact words in your last paragraph...Looked pretty clear to me...

Go ahead and rant, and tell him what you just said in your last paragraph. I'd think that he would've been a bit more understanding about a new piercing, and not aim for the nose! Also, you are supposed to switch up the pace some... Of course, I don't do your art, so therefore don't know exactly what it entails....

 

[chinto01]

I agree with what the others have said. If that does not work talk to your instructor and hopefully they will help fix it.

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

 

[jdinca]

Ditto! Get in his face and don't be nice about it. You've tried that and it didn't work. If he persists, you may need to change up your speed more often. If he pops you in the nose again, an "accidental" groin shot may be required. "Oh, I'm so sorry, did that hurt?" :angel:

 

[rutherford]

"I train with this really nice guy . . ."

That's the only part of your post that surprised me. I assume you mean outside of class.

If it's at all an option I would just refuse to train with him. You've already told him what you expect out of training. He apparently thinks he knows better and won't listen. So don't waste anymore time on him.

 

[Tames D]

Ditto! Get in his face and don't be nice about it. You've tried that and it didn't work. If he persists, you may need to change up your speed more often. If he pops you in the nose again, an "accidental" groin shot may be required. "Oh, I'm so sorry, did that hurt?" :angel:

Yeah but you gotta be careful with the groin shots. He may have a piercing down there

.

 

[Brian King]

Both consciously and subconsciously many people use speed and power and momentum as a way of dealing with their fear. Understanding this it becomes easier to deal with people who are training at an inappropriate training speed. One quote I like to keep in mind is from Jim King “Fear loses power when you see opportunity”. Talking to your training partner and stressing that slow is for learning and fast is for testing. When learning how to drive a car or ride a motorcycle no sane person starts out with a world class racer going all out or even half speed. I feel the same should be true in combat arts. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast is a very old training axiom that has been proven time and time again. Fast and sloppy can get you or others killed. Many people work on speed when instead their time might be better used working on timing. Your timing can improve as you age while speed usually slows and in reality speed is often compensation for poor timing. Your partners lack of control is more than robbing you of valuable training time and lessons but is also creating bad habits by reinforcing a fear response in you and reinforcing his ego as he sees you flinch and get angered, exactly opposite of which lessons should be absorbed and worked on, and that should not be tolerated by either one of you.

While I do not like training wearing protective gear in this case I might recommend that you wear one of those nose guards like some of the NBA players do. Do not wear it all the time just with those that lack control and let them know you are wearing it just because they do lack the control.

Good luck
Brian King

 

[kidswarrior]

"I train with this really nice guy . . ."

That's the only part of your post that surprised me. I assume you mean outside of class.

If it's at all an option I would just refuse to train with him. You've already told him what you expect out of training. He apparently thinks he knows better and won't listen. So don't waste anymore time on him.

One reason we train slowly in San Soo is this very thing. Going too fast/too hard can (1) cause someone to be sloppy--or, if s.o. is already sloppy, as you said, they try to cover it with speed; (2) cause serious injuries. My last one was a mashed nerve running through the cervical vertabrae to the arm, all because a higher ranking belt thought he had to show me how a particular neck crank would feel. Now understand, I never go to the doctor anymore for these things, but when my whole arm went numb about a week later, decided to make an exception. Took three months of physical therapy (my first time--wasn't so bad ), etc., and two years later I still/will always have permanent damage.

Talking to that guy would have been a waste of time. The instructor in charge has a se la vie attitude to injuries. So, no talking there, either.

I could have later hurt him in retaliation, to prove his belt doesn't impress me and wouldn't save him (and I don't mean just a shot to the mouth or groin--those are just part of training, slight corrections, if you will ; I mean, hurt as in s.th. I'd be sorry for, for a long time). But that's just not me. I'm not in this to hurt people, just as you aren't JadeTigress, and just as most of the people on this board are not.

So, my solution? I just won't ever work with him again. Would I prefer to hurt him? :angry: Oh, Yeah. But I'd feel bad later, because his action really just grew out of his own insecurity. And ya' know what? He's right. He's not as good as he thinks (I'm not either, but I'm determined ). So, this guy is foolish and lives with the deep-down notion that he's not as 'bad' as his belt proclaims him to be. That just has to be good enough for me, and I have to move on--without him.

End of my own rant, I guess....:soapbox: But just trying to say, I get it and empathize.

 

[Flying Crane]

I assume you have told him exactly, and very clearly, WHY you don't want to get hit in the nose? That the piercing is new, and getting hit could cause complications in the healing process? Maybe tell him again, and insist that he repeat back to you exactly what you just told him...if he hits you again, make him repeat it again. Then, maybe just refuse to work with him.

 

[JBrainard]

So, I keep training, and I'm throwing my punches slower, and he's in a rhythm and anticipating, so I threw a fast punch and hit him right in the mouth. Boy was he surprised. I said, "Oh, I'm sorry." I could tell it hurt too. heh.

"RAWR" indeed

If that does not work talk to your instructor and hopefully they will help fix it.

That's what I would suggest.

 

[morph4me]

Both consciously and subconsciously many people use speed and power and momentum as a way of dealing with their fear. Understanding this it becomes easier to deal with people who are training at an inappropriate training speed. One quote I like to keep in mind is from Jim King “Fear loses power when you see opportunity”. Talking to your training partner and stressing that slow is for learning and fast is for testing. When learning how to drive a car or ride a motorcycle no sane person starts out with a world class racer going all out or even half speed. I feel the same should be true in combat arts. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast is a very old training axiom that has been proven time and time again. Fast and sloppy can get you or others killed. Many people work on speed when instead their time might be better used working on timing. Your timing can improve as you age while speed usually slows and in reality speed is often compensation for poor timing. Your partners lack of control is more than robbing you of valuable training time and lessons but is also creating bad habits by reinforcing a fear response in you and reinforcing his ego as he sees you flinch and get angered, exactly opposite of which lessons should be absorbed and worked on, and that should not be tolerated by either one of you.

While I do not like training wearing protective gear in this case I might recommend that you wear one of those nose guards like some of the NBA players do. Do not wear it all the time just with those that lack control and let them know you are wearing it just because they do lack the control.

Good luck
Brian King

I agree, I am a proponent of trainng slowly and using proper technique, and I especially like the idea of wearing protection with someone to show you dont trust him because he lacks control, actions speak louder than words. Good luck.

 

[Jade Tigress]

If he persists, you may need to change up your speed more often. If he pops you in the nose again, an "accidental" groin shot may be required. "Oh, I'm so sorry, did that hurt?" :angel:

LMAO! Seriously, that thought actually crossed my mind. :lol:

"I train with this really nice guy . . ."

That's the only part of your post that surprised me. I assume you mean outside of class.

Actually, I meant that as it's not like he trying to prove how tough he is cuz he's training with a girl, like some guys do. I have to say, I have been fortunate enough in my training so far as not to have encountered guys like that. Though I've heard other woman have to deal with it in training. And I also mean that his intentions are good, he's not being an ***, he and I just have a different view of what we think training should be.

If it's at all an option I would just refuse to train with him. You've already told him what you expect out of training. He apparently thinks he knows better and won't listen. So don't waste anymore time on him.

Unfortunately, not training with him is not an option. I'd rather train the drills with a partner than by myself.

Yeah but you gotta be careful with the groin shots. He may have a piercing down there

Ummmmm....definitely NOT the type. LOL!

Both consciously and subconsciously many people use speed and power and momentum as a way of dealing with their fear. Understanding this it becomes easier to deal with people who are training at an inappropriate training speed. One quote I like to keep in mind is from Jim King “Fear loses power when you see opportunity”. Talking to your training partner and stressing that slow is for learning and fast is for testing. When learning how to drive a car or ride a motorcycle no sane person starts out with a world class racer going all out or even half speed. I feel the same should be true in combat arts. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast is a very old training axiom that has been proven time and time again. Fast and sloppy can get you or others killed. Many people work on speed when instead their time might be better used working on timing. Your timing can improve as you age while speed usually slows and in reality speed is often compensation for poor timing. Your partners lack of control is more than robbing you of valuable training time and lessons but is also creating bad habits by reinforcing a fear response in you and reinforcing his ego as he sees you flinch and get angered, exactly opposite of which lessons should be absorbed and worked on, and that should not be tolerated by either one of you.

While I do not like training wearing protective gear in this case I might recommend that you wear one of those nose guards like some of the NBA players do. Do not wear it all the time just with those that lack control and let them know you are wearing it just because they do lack the control.

Good luck
Brian King

Excellent points Brian, and something my training partner does not understand. He thinks faster is better. The assistant instructor has told him to slow down on occasion but, just like when I tell him to watch the nose, he quickly forgets and gets into his own little "I'm training so hard" zone.

I do appreciate all the advice. I'm going to ask my Sifu for suggestions. :asian:

 

[DavidCC]

It was your choice to get the nose piercing - a cosmetic procedure that has made it difficult for you to train properly, and made you into someone who is not a good partner to train with while it heals. Didn't you know before it was done about these time frames and problems it would present for proper training? If so, then you clearly priortized the nose piercing over your training. Now you want to have it both ways, and blame your partner because you can't.

Maybe you should not go to class until the 3 months is up.

If you had an injury that led to the same restrictions, would you still be training while it healed? Say, if you had broken finger or something... ? Would yo be mad if your partner accidentally hurt your broken finger, or would you think "well, that's what I get for training while injured".

please don't be offended, I'm just telling you how I, as a teacher, would approach a student with the same issue.

-David

 

[Jade Tigress]

It was your choice to get the nose piercing - a cosmetic procedure that has made it difficult for you to train properly, and made you into someone who is not a good partner to train with while it heals. Didn't you know before it was done about these time frames and problems it would present for proper training? If so, then you clearly priortized the nose piercing over your training. Now you want to have it both ways, and blame your partner because you can't.

Maybe you should not go to class until the 3 months is up.

If you had an injury that led to the same restrictions, would you still be training while it healed? Say, if you had broken finger or something... ? Would yo be mad if your partner accidentally hurt your broken finger, or would you think "well, that's what I get for training while injured".

please don't be offended, I'm just telling you how I, as a teacher, would approach a student with the same issue.

-David

Yes I did know. And getting hit in the nose is not a normal part of training if done properly. I'm not sparring. It's a DRILL, it's supposed to be controlled. And yes, I choose a cosmetic procedure for personal reasons just as I choose to train in martial arts for personal reasons. I don't think one has to negate the other. Would I care about getting hit the nose if I was in a street fight or trying to defend myself? HELL NO! But this is TRAINING so that I CAN avoid being hit in a real life situation. I mean heck, I don't go around kicking guys in the nuts full out in training like I would if I were actually defending myself. I CONTROL it. To me, this is more about courtesy and control than it is "training with an injury".

 

[Jade Tigress]

Good God you guys are fast! KW, FC, JB, and Morph, all cross-posted with me.


FC, yeah, I told him. He's not purposefully hitting me in the nose, but it's happening anyway. He's hitting me because he's going too fast and can't control it. Then when I miss, he covers his lack of control with "you can't be afraid to get hit" or the old, "don't watch my hand", etc, where he starts coaching me on missing his uncontrolled punch.

 

[MarkBarlow]

Yes I did know. And getting hit in the nose is not a normal part of training if done properly. I'm not sparring. It's a DRILL, it's supposed to be controlled. And yes, I choose a cosmetic procedure for personal reasons just as I choose to train in martial arts for personal reasons. I don't think one has to negate the other. Would I care about getting hit the nose if I was in a street fight or trying to defend myself? HELL NO! But this is TRAINING so that I CAN avoid being hit in a real life situation. I mean heck, I don't go around kicking guys in the nuts full out in training like I would if I were actually defending myself. I CONTROL it. To me, this is more about courtesy and control than it is "training with an injury".

I think you're completely within your rights to request structure for drills. As you said, there already exists an unspoken agreement for you not to punt his chestnuts up into this throat. Maybe an occasionaly punt might make him appreciate how good natured you've been.

 

[Flying Crane]

Good God you guys are fast! KW, FC, JB, and Morph, all cross-posted with me.


FC, yeah, I told him. He's not purposefully hitting me in the nose, but it's happening anyway. He's hitting me because he's going too fast and can't control it. Then when I miss, he covers his lack of control with "you can't be afraid to get hit" or the old, "don't watch my hand", etc, where he starts coaching me on missing his uncontrolled punch.

Yeah, I dunno. Either he can get it into his head to not hit you in the nose, or you just can't work with him for now.

Davidcc has made a valid point on one hand, but on the other, it doesn't seem to me like something that can't be worked with. If you had an injury, like a broken finger or bruised ribs, I think you could train thru it and reasonably expect your classmates to use some extra caution. Same thing here, the only difference is that you chose this one for yourself. Some people you just can't work with. They are in their own world.