The Way A Black Belt Test Should Be.

[kingkong89]

I feel that a bb test should consist of everything. Not everything out there but everything that is part of your system, all the katas one steps throws sweeps joint locks ect. Whatever you do in your system should be on the test

 

[KenpoDave]

The black belt test is a signpost representing the very best that you have on that day, physically and mentally. The test should be physically demanding enough that, during the test, there should be a few times where the student says, "I'm not sure I can finish this..." but they reach inside and do it anyway.

There should be a standard, yet every test should be unique to the student.

The test is really only a formality. The candidate has "passed" in the eyes of the instructor when the instructor sets the test date. Yet, it can be failed.

We require all self defense techniques, performed in the air and on an opponent, all katas, and all basics performed 5 times each both sides. The typical test runs about 3.5 hours.

A correctly administered black belt test should be a gift from the instructor to the student, and from the student to the instructor and school. It should be both difficult enough yet flawlessly performed, so that the blackbelt can look back everyday and know that he achieved something.

 

[Doc]

Flying Crane is correct. If he was in that THAT bad of shape, he shouldnt have been testing in the first place.

underbelt tests can be anything. BB test SHOULD be hard, but not these 3 days, 1000's of reps, 10 mile runs i hear about on here

oddly, i have never, in 25 years in the arts seen a school that ACTUALLY did that. just heard about it from people that claim their school does it.....

Seems to me just coming to a properly run class that actually teaches and tests skills regularly as a matter of instruction, would yield cardio benefits with no extra effort. If it doesn't, and a person makes it all the way to testing for black, chances are they hadn't learned and/or developed anything anyway, and never will in that environment.

 

[Twin Fist]

exactly right Doc

 

[MJS]

Seems to me just coming to a properly run class that actually teaches and tests skills regularly as a matter of instruction, would yield cardio benefits with no extra effort. If it doesn't, and a person makes it all the way to testing for black, chances are they hadn't learned and/or developed anything anyway, and never will in that environment.

Exactly!!

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Seems to me just coming to a properly run class that actually teaches and tests skills regularly as a matter of instruction, would yield cardio benefits with no extra effort. If it doesn't, and a person makes it all the way to testing for black, chances are they hadn't learned and/or developed anything anyway, and never will in that environment.

Hard to argue with that!

 

[Sukerkin]

To play devils advocate a little on this topic, why on earth should a 'test' for a martial arts grade take anything like the amount of time or physical demands that are being spoken of in some of the posts above?

For 99.9% of us that train in the martial arts (made up stat there ), our training is the hardest thing that we do in any given week and we are never anticipating having to go out onto a feudal battlefield and rely on our 'skillz' because our weapon has broken. So what possible value is there in such needless strenuousness?

To most people, it reeks of pure testosterone fueled faux-machismo to demand that a black belt test should near enough put you in A & E.

 

[jks9199]

For at least 1st degree/dan/level, it makes some sense to have some sort of crucible of a test, as a rite of passage. But it's not necessary to go to insane lengths, or weeks long testing. The review of all the material below black belt, some reasonable but demanding physical challenge, sparring (if appropriate for the art), and so on. I question using a written test or even the paper requirements, unless they're going to be reasonably reviewed and assessed. I've just seen too many where the written test was trite or the papers were simply checked off, and not actually read.

 

[Carol]

I think a BB test should be hard. I've seen guys who sucked wind half way thru, and guess what, test over you fail. Not only should you know the requirements, I think you should be randomly attacked to see how you react. I also think you should be hit hard to see how you react to getting hit.

.

I agree, and this is why it drives me nuts to train side by side with people who're less serious about the training. Are the casual, looking for something to do after work folks, really going to hold up to the contact of the BB test? Are they going to want the contact? In most cases, the test will probably be modified or watered down. Then again, I have to wonder...way back in the day, not just in the Kenpo/Kaju systems, but the Shotokan, Goju, etc. systems, were there less serious people training? If so, did they survive? Were tests watered down because someone is 50yrs old and 20lbs over weight?

When you say "sucking wind" does that mean performing poorly or breathing hard? Based on Mike S's comment, it sounds like he's talking about poor performance, but the prior comments (by Bill M and Flying Crane) address someone breathing hard.

I can understand a poor performer not earning the rank, but I can't get behind breathing hard as a metric of pass/fail. If I were to give up something as a failure just because someone else thought out of breath, I wouldn't have accomplished a lot of the things i did this year.

I hiked up to the summit of Mount Monadnock this fall. It was very crowded and I frequently stepped to the side to let other hikers (in better shape) pass me. Once when I stopped to rest, another hiker asked me if I was OK. I said fine, and joked that I had plenty of heart, but perhaps not enough cardio. The hiker laughed and said that cardio alone won't bring you to the finish line of a marathon, but cardio and heart together will always bring great results. I think he's right.

Sometimes its not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog. So...

So what possible value is there in such needless strenuousness?

I suppose the academic answer may be pain tolerance, art proficiency, blah blah blah. I haven't earned a black belt in anything, so I can't speak from experience.

But when you are in a situation where you must perform, and must go for hours, you are alone, when you feel that the odds are against you, the situation seems hopeless, and you keep finding obstacle after obstacle bringing one new hell after another...

...and you emerge from that experience with all or most of your health intact...

...then you, your mind, your body everything within you KNOWS the importance of never, ever, ever, ever giving up. That makes for a much bigger fight in the dog.

 

[Sukerkin]

I like your answer to my last question, Carol :tup:.

I think if martial arts is a persons primary motivation for continuing to draw breath (or if their art truly is a means for their survival) then that does indeed count as a worthy rationale for gradings that are tests of endurance.

 

[Doc]

To play devils advocate a little on this topic, why on earth should a 'test' for a martial arts grade take anything like the amount of time or physical demands that are being spoken of in some of the posts above?

For 99.9% of us that train in the martial arts (made up stat there ), our training is the hardest thing that we do in any given week and we are never anticipating having to go out onto a feudal battlefield and rely on our 'skillz' because our weapon has broken. So what possible value is there in such needless strenuousness?

For me and those I teach sir, I must agree. Every one of my classes is some measure of a test physically, intellectually, and emotionally. Each class is about 4 hours long, and extremely demanding on many levels. Not only do I, but everyone in the school knows whose competent and who is not on any given night at their level. My students earn it every night. My classes themselves are a"right of passage" and to subject my students to additional exhausting demands as a formality seems unnecessary, and my exams are no more exhausting, and are actually shorter than a regular class. The written exams are mandatory at every level, and they consist of no less than 30 essay questions, plus a thesis for black and above. I also realize I am not in the business of the martial arts. We do not advertise, and the location of the primary school is not listed anywhere. Only word-of mouth, a referral, or luck can bring you to us followed by an interview and background check. I cannot expect others to be as stringent in a "open to the public" studio. We're a private institution, and that allows me to pick the student, over the other way around, and we do not take children for any reason.

 

[AriesKai]

To play devils advocate a little on this topic, why on earth should a 'test' for a martial arts grade take anything like the amount of time or physical demands that are being spoken of in some of the posts above?

For 99.9% of us that train in the martial arts (made up stat there ), our training is the hardest thing that we do in any given week and we are never anticipating having to go out onto a feudal battlefield and rely on our 'skillz' because our weapon has broken. So what possible value is there in such needless strenuousness?

To most people, it reeks of pure testosterone fueled faux-machismo to demand that a black belt test should near enough put you in A & E.

I completely agree to this. Not everyone has to anticipate:

having to go out onto a feudal battlefield and rely on our 'skillz' because our weapon has broken.

Those that have a higher chance, should train for it (ie: combat soldiers, armed militiamen, police officers, ect); because it's the 'worst case scenario'. This is "Life" or "Death", and it's, "Survival of the fittest"; not playing with a box of Lego's while watching Blues Clues or Sesame Street.

If i'm getting some training under some 'McSensei' at the local 'McDojo' that is pathetically useless in the "Worst Case Scenario", then what in the Hell am I training under him for? Physical training?? I can get that at "Gold's Gym"!!!
In relation to us who train in the 'Martial Arts'; we train for those "Worst Case Scenario's", or we wouldn't be training at all.
One's purpose of training may be different than someone else's (such as my own); but that doesn't mean that they both shouldn't train for the 'worst case scenario' as long as it remains 'realistic' within their daily lives, and or jobs.
If I go into a street fight against 20 attackers with glocks, chances are i'm gonna either get turned into swiss cheese, or i'm going to 'negotiate' my way out of the situation (which is something that should be included in every Martial Arts schools curriculum). One should be trained on how to handle that as best as possible. If I'm a soldier on the front lines, I end up 'stranded' or 'strayed' away from my platoon/squad, and my weapon gets destroyed somehow, I should be trained on how to find my squad/platoon without being detected, and if I have to engage an enemy hand-to-hand (which is probably going to happen eventually), then I should be trained for it... there's a high chance that one may not come out alive (which is another thing that one should be trained for; SERE w/h2h tactics); but there is still that chance that I will.
Last one: If I go into a street fight against 3 thugs with knives and brass knuckles, there is a very high chance that i'm going to get battered, beaten, and sliced to death.. but there is still a chance that I can come out of that situation alive and unharmed (a low chance, but 1% is enough to say that it is possible).

While there's the chance that something can happen, there should be an even much higher chance that we train for it.
If we don't, then that chance of Life and Death goes from 50/50 to 30/70; death wins. If we do then that chance of Life and Death goes from 50/50 to 70/30; Life wins.

Conclusion:
Someone who trains up to the BB test should be trained and conditioned enough to the point to where they can handle what they're being given.
It shouldn't be something where you have to take a break during or in-between in order to stay alive or put your heart back into it's proper and/or normal rhythm.
Just because you feel palpitations in your chest, doesn't mean you should stop. Feeling palpitations from your heart beat during exercise is actually very normal. If you are showing symptoms of myocardial infarction or cardiac arrest, then you should stop immediately (or the instructor should make you stop), and find professional/medical assistance immediately.
Your instructor should be medically inclined just enough to know at least symptoms of heart failure...HOPEFULLY!

Another thing and THIS SHOULD BE TAKEN VERY SERIOUSLY!!!!:
Your instructor should know about ALL of your previous medical issues.
If you have any history of heart conditions, asthma, ect; your Instructors should know about it!
It's their responsibility to know, and is YOUR responsibility to make sure they know!!

Something that should also be taken into account, is that if the lady/gentleman is elderly and/or is a senior citizen, than they're battling the factor of having to keep up with those who are of better health.
Just because they're having to battle against this, does not mean that they should be given a black belt; they should still have to work and earn it just would anyone else, but within their physical capabilities!
They should not be restricted the possibility and privilege of earning a black belt. Any good instructor will take that seriously, as one could probably even file a lawsuit against that instructor for discrimination and/or that instructor being prejudice.

My experience under all of my specially selected instructors includes having to continuously contribute to that distinctive odor of sweat and bleach on the mats and floors no matter what belt level I was, the entire time I trained under them.

The way i've always believed is:
While I sweat more now, the less bleedin`n`dyin I have to do later!

That goes back to that old saying, 'No pain, No game!'

It doesn't matter if you're a beginner, intermediate, advanced, or a grandmaster.. If you're not really ready for that next belt, than it shouldn't be given to you.

The first few belts should not only be your understanding on the basics of the martial art, but should also be the instructors' assessment on where you are physically, mentally, and even emotionally. This is where they should be pushing you until they know your limits, while you learn your own limits as well.

The black belt test should be earned through hours and hours of sweat, blood, and pain, while you display great amounts of motivation, determination, and the heart to fight through even the toughest of fights.
One thing I believe is: you always die or go down fighting.
While you shouldn't have to 'die fighting' for that black belt, you should be fighting to reach that level of strength, conditioning, and technique/skillz from day one. If an instructor doesn't see that you're putting forth that 110% effort every time (realistically, within your limits), you shouldn't even get past white belt (beginner), even if you are learning the techniques.
One thing that everyone should know: the more you train in technique, the more proficient you'll be at it; so if you stay at white belt for 5 years (just an example), you're going to be phenomenally skilled at the white belt curriculum of skills.
If you're not getting anything in that amount of time in regards to technique/'skillz' then you probably shouldn't be studying anyways......

With all of that being said; someone testing for the 'black belt' should be more than just prepared for it.
There's no point in 'meeting' the standard when you can 'exceed' it!!

Accidents and problems can always be prevented; in this case, it's proper training and conditioning while having to earn every single belt or rank you receive.




Best Regards,
Aries Kai

 

[Ray]

The first black belt tests I saw (two simultaneously) happened during what I thought would be a normal group class. The teacher took two brown belt students and made them run through forms and techniques (the techs were performed on other members of the class). Then each sparred with nearly everyone in the class. They ended by sparring with each other. These two were probably the best fighters in the class, including the black belts that were present. The two didn't know ahead of time that they were being test, I and others in the class didn't realize it until later in the class.

It seemed as if, at the end, anyone who may doubted the abilities or knowledge of the two could not now dispute any of that. They were tired and sweaty but proven to be worthy of their belts.

I've seen more formal tests where people were otherwise physically tested as described by others in the thread.
----

Me, I decided once that I would only "sign up" to test when I became a "great fighter." I got to the point where: I went to class every night of the week for multiple classes...I worked out at home almost incessantly. And after all the hours I worked out, practiced and tried I never became sufficiently good enough to test. There were other people who were better than me and no matter how hard I tried I could not best them.

At one of my teacher's tournaments I took a 2nd in Brown Belt forms, and 1st in Brown Belt fighting. And I had a great time helping set up, judge and do whatever I could to help out.

At one point I was paged to the front by my teacher and as I approached I was surrounded by a group of blackbelts. My teacher said "grab him" and I was grabbed from behind by two, my teacher kicked me up and I was promoted there & there. I still wasn't happy with my proficiency & ablities and I didn't wholeheartedly feel good about my promotion. After all these years, I realize I never will be happy with my proficiency, knowledge and skills. Left to my own devices, I would never have tested.
----

What is the purpose of a test? And what is the outcome? Is it to be shown, like the Wizard of Oz "scarecrow" that we really do have something that we never realized? Is it to show us that we still have a lot to learn and improve upon? Is it to confirm to us and others that we posses the requisites for the rank? I suppose if the test acheives the purpose then it is the right way to test. I believe it should spur us on to want to improve.

 

[LawDog]

Those who practice,
* the Art itself - there is no need for long cardio types of tests. There are those who want to enjoy the working out for "self gratification" and there is nothing wrong with this.
* the Martial Arts - If your going to train to fight or for a possible encounter then you should be up to the task.
Like in the military there are those who want to take up the challenge of the hard test.
The MMA guys test all of the time so that they can get rated. They get this rating by actual fighting.
One should should join a school / system that fits well with their own point of view and not worry so much about how the other person does it.
Test or no test - the never ending question. :argue:

 

[MJS]

To play devils advocate a little on this topic, why on earth should a 'test' for a martial arts grade take anything like the amount of time or physical demands that are being spoken of in some of the posts above?

For 99.9% of us that train in the martial arts (made up stat there ), our training is the hardest thing that we do in any given week and we are never anticipating having to go out onto a feudal battlefield and rely on our 'skillz' because our weapon has broken. So what possible value is there in such needless strenuousness?

To most people, it reeks of pure testosterone fueled faux-machismo to demand that a black belt test should near enough put you in A & E.

IMO, I think the test should be hard, but should the person end up dying? IMO, no. The test, I feel, should be a test thats physically and mentally demanding. While we may not go into battle, so to speak, depending on where you live, work, hang out, can all play a big part in whether or not you'll ever need you're training. To re-enforce this, in my small town that I live in, there has been a home invasion as well as a shooting in a now closed bar/nightclub.

I think Doc made a good point, and others, including myself touched on it. Why in the world would anyone be up for BB level if they can't perform at BB level? This tells me that if this is happening, then people who perform half-assed, are moving up in rank, when they shouldn't be, and the inst. is running a mcdojo, as he's more concerned with making the $$$ then quality students.

 

[Sukerkin]

That wasn't quite what I was trying to shine a dim light on, MJS.

It is most clear that if you are not yet of the right standard then you should not even get the merest whisper of a step onwards in rank. That I am in full agreement with.

What I was addressing, as Devil's Advocate, was the apparent need to turn a test into something tantermount to a hazing ritual.

From my own experience, I have had 'gradings' that lasted all day without my even realising it because my sensei believes in seeing someones actions over time when they do not think they are being scrutinised. So, essentially I know that, with appropriate breaks, I can swing a sword over a large number of hours - for me, there would be no gain to bringing me to the brink of exhaustion to prove that I can do Mon Iri when my arms feel like lead weights because I already know that I can.

As a semi-aside, Doc mentioned above that his normal classes already put his students under that kind of physical stress but he also noted that his students are what we might term 'invitation only' as it is not a commercial environment but one for the invesitgation of the art (something that I believe all schools should be). Because such a thing is a mutual rather than a finacial agreement I feel that puts it into a different field than a commercial school.

 

[dianhsuhe]

In our system there is no black belt test per se. The idea is that the student is being tested every time they step on the mat so when they are ready they are promoted.

It is also worth mentioning that every black-belt in our system is approved in person by Grandmaster Kuoha, this ensures quality and consistency.

The belt is received palms down (earned) as opposed to palms up (gift).

CHeers

 

[shaolinmonkmark]

at my school, our tests are 1 month long:
3 days a week for 2 hours each day.
We mix it up, example:
first 25 minutes, pushups, cardio, BOB heavy bag combos on both right and southpaw stance, kicks, etc., then next 25 minutes non stop, will either be BJJ grappling(strickly BJJ, no striking, broken up amongst all testing participants, 2 to 3 minutes each, rotate the partners)_or, Dm's/combinations, both right and left sided, using 3 people at a time, defender in middle, both attackers at 45degree angles ready to punch in, master calls out the number, and side you have to go ASAP, then over head/side clubs another 45 minutes , slashing/straight in knifes, 30 minutes, kempo punch techniques-you freeze, you do 150 pushups or 200 crunches, broken up in 40's, 30 second breaks in between, last 20 minutes, sparring, first 5 minutes, Point sparring, next 5 minutes, sparring with Verbal handicapps, example, mark , you cannot strike with your hands, only block, but, can use only feet, etc... last remaing time, MMa style kumite with gear, don't stop till master instructor says up.
(i will admit, sometimes, i wanted to puke at the end )
We do not believe in USSD's way:
a test is 14 hours long non stop with only a 25 minute water/rest break.
At end of the test, there is a ceremony date.

 

[ninjachamp3]

Before taking a test, these are the steps that any beginner can take now to ensure a successful path to black belt:

1. Define what the black belt means to you personally
2.Set a realistic period in which to reach your goal
3. Break your overall goal down into smaller content chunks
4. Understand exactly what content you need to learn
5. Get to know the black belts in your club and ask them how they were successful.
6. Go to class on a regular basis
7. Practice at home
8. Read books on karate and your style and do some research on the Internet
9. Find a training partner who shares the same goal and push each other to the next level
10. Never give up on becoming a black belt