The Way A Black Belt Test Should Be.

[MJS]

There are always discussions about testing, people who get promoted too quick, tests that seem too easy, etc. So, in your opinion, what do you feel a Black Belt test should be like? I'm not looking for some discussion on how to create a universal testing process, but instead for talk about how you run your tests.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Well, perhaps NOT like this one:

New York Appellate Division Reports
MACHOWSKI v. GALLANT, 234 A.D.2d 933 [4th Dept 1996]
December 30, 1996

Supreme Court erred in granting defendants' motion for summary judgment dismissing this wrongful death action, arising out of the fatal heart attack suffered by plaintiff's husband (decedent) shortly after he completed the test for his black belt in karate. "Generally, whether the plaintiff assumed a risk by participating in a sport is a question for the jury; dismissal of the complaint is appropriate only when the proof before the court reveals no triable issue of fact" (Weller v. Colleges of the Senecas, 217 A.D.2d 280, 284; see also, Maddox v. City of New York, 66 N.Y.2d 270, 279). Although "`participants properly may be held to have consented, by their participation, to those injury-causing events which are known, apparent or reasonably foreseeable consequences of the participation'" (Lamey v. Foley, 188 A.D.2d 157, 163 quoting Turcotte v. Fell, 68 N.Y.2d 432,.439), a defendant generally has a duty to exercise reasonable care to protect participants from "`unassumed, concealed or unreasonably increased risks'" (Lamey v. Foley, supra, 188 A.D.2d, at 164, quoting Benitez v. New York City Bd. of Educ., 73 N.Y.2d 650, 658). A videotape of decedent's black belt test indicates that decedent was exhausted and gasping for breath virtually from the outset of the test, yet defendant Kelly Gallant continued to urge him on. Plaintiff submitted an affidavit from an expert who avers that the test as designed by defendants was unnecessary and should have been stopped. Plaintiff also submitted a physician's affidavit from which a jury could conclude that the alleged deficiencies in the conduct and supervision of the test were a proximate cause of decedent's death (cf., Putrino v. Buffalo Athletic Club, 193 A.D.2d 1127, and 82 N.Y.2d 779). A jury could find that defendants, by failing properly to conduct and supervise the black belt test, thereby exposed decedent to unreasonably increased risks of injury (see, Sheehan v. Hicksville Union Free School Dist., 229 A.D.2d 10

The basic point being that I often read about Black Belt tests that are grueling affairs of endurance, stoic acceptance of punishment, and sometimes abuse. While I agree that a test should be a true test and not a gift or a present or especially a purchased commodity, it would seem that tests should be designed to test what a person has learned and how well they can apply it, not to take them to the ragged edges of life itself. Tests of that nature exist and properly, too; in the military. And that is where they belong; extreme tests for extreme life-or-death functions where the difference between being qualified and not being qualified is life itself.

I am not qualified to say what a black belt test should consist of, but this is my opinion as a junior-level karateka, for what it may be worth.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I've never seen the sort of do-or-die testing described. The testings I've seen, in a number of schools and arts, have been much more relaxed, and frankly I cannot imagine any instructor worthy of the name pushing a student to that degree. And I believe that such events are newsworthy for the same reason things like shark attacks get so much press; they are extremely rare.
I've said before... I don't even know why we call it testing. A test is to see if you know material. Given the way martial arts training is done, both the student and the instructor should have no doubt that the material is known to an acceptable degree before the option to test is given. I think what we do is more a demonstration than a test, and perhaps it ought to be called a demonstration.
It's been said, and I strongly agree, that we do not test to earn a rank. We already ARE that rank and are just demonstrating that fact.

 

[Jdokan]

I've never seen the sort of do-or-die testing described. The testings I've seen, in a number of schools and arts, have been much more relaxed, and frankly I cannot imagine any instructor worthy of the name pushing a student to that degree. And I believe that such events are newsworthy for the same reason things like shark attacks get so much press; they are extremely rare.
I've said before... I don't even know why we call it testing. A test is to see if you know material. Given the way martial arts training is done, both the student and the instructor should have no doubt that the material is known to an acceptable degree before the option to test is given. I think what we do is more a demonstration than a test, and perhaps it ought to be called a demonstration.
It's been said, and I strongly agree, that we do not test to earn a rank. We already ARE that rank and are just demonstrating that fact.

Though I agree with a lot of this.....tests I have witnessed in the 70's were definitely a " 'til you drop" mentality....
TO discuss the demonstration portion....totally agree!! You should be showing your skill sets within the limits of some physical stress...not to the degree where someone dies.....

 

[Flying Crane]

Well, perhaps NOT like this one:

The article indicates the decedent, as observed on the video, appeared out of breath and gasping from the outset of the test. I'd question why someone in that poor condition would be up for a blackbelt test, and would be allowed to test in the first place. I think that may have been the first error in judgement.

I think this may be indicative of how standards get lowered to the point where everyone is expected to be able to earn their black belt. They get ushered thru the underbelts without too much trouble, and then people who are grossly underconditioned are allowed to test for black belt. But then the school wants to give a tough test for black belt, and the students are simply unprepared because it's conducted on a level they've never experienced.

Not everyone is able to earn a black belt. But everyone wants to believe that they can.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Very, very hard and showing your skill sets but also a unique opportunity to learn and be shown quite a bit of what there is still to train in for the future. I take each test that I give as a chance to demonstrate their proficiency and skill sets in a manner that does induce some stress. However, each test is more about cleaning up technique and then also about showing new technique and skill sets to inspire the practitioner to keep going and improve!

 

[Twin Fist]

Flying Crane is correct. If he was in that THAT bad of shape, he shouldnt have been testing in the first place.

underbelt tests can be anything. BB test SHOULD be hard, but not these 3 days, 1000's of reps, 10 mile runs i hear about on here

oddly, i have never, in 25 years in the arts seen a school that ACTUALLY did that. just heard about it from people that claim their school does it.....

 

[J Ellis]

Strong command of basics.

Powerful, controlled execution of techniques.

Spontaneity and good technique against resistance and unrehearsed attacks.

Fluidity and power in any forms/kata performed.

Balance and intensity at all times.

Perseverance.

Tired at the end.

 

[MJS]

Likewise, I too have to wonder why someone, who was in obvious distress, would a) be pushed to continue, and b) more importantly, why they'd be allowed to test, if they were in that bad of shape. Now, one assumes that the arts will help you lose weight, so by the time you are ready for your BB, you'd be in resonable shape. Then again, whats reasonable to one, may not be to another.

IMO, a BB test should be the most difficult test the student endures, during their training. Physically and mentally, the student should be pushed, but again, you need to use common sense. If running is a part of the test, which in many cases, it is ( it was for my first degree) you can't expect a 20yo male, a 50yo male, and a 40yo woman to all be on the same level. Again, common sense. Does this mean that they should have it easy? No, but again, push each person in a way unique to them.

Assuming the person trains 2-3 times a week in class, and a few on their own, again, by the time they reach BB level, they should be capable of performing at an advanced level.

The basics should be crisp. The margin for error should be smaller, still allowing for the 'brain fart' but not to the point where its happening with every technique.

Techniques should be crisp as well, being done both in the air and on someone. The person should have control of the person during the tech. The attacks should be realistic enough so that the testee gets a real feeling. In other words, the punch should be coming at the face, not off to the side or stopping 5in away from the face. If you dont block or move you get hit. The testee should also have a good understanding of the tech., being able to explain it and understand why they're doing what they're doing.

Kata should also fall into the same group....crisp, solid stances, strikes, kicks, and the testee should be able to explain what they're doing and give at least 1 breakdown of the moves of the kata.

Sparring should be done as well. Set up the sparring to allow a variety of things, such as 1 min matches, with the testee staying in the ring and fresh fighters coming in after each min. Rounds with just hands or just feet, rounds with more than 1 person.

IMO, the test as I said, is mental and physical. I want to see how much drive the person has, and how much desire they have to keep going. Again, safety is something that needs to be kept in mind.

 

[AriesKai]

Well, perhaps NOT like this one:



The basic point being that I often read about Black Belt tests that are grueling affairs of endurance, stoic acceptance of punishment, and sometimes abuse. While I agree that a test should be a true test and not a gift or a present or especially a purchased commodity, it would seem that tests should be designed to test what a person has learned and how well they can apply it, not to take them to the ragged edges of life itself. Tests of that nature exist and properly, too; in the military. And that is where they belong; extreme tests for extreme life-or-death functions where the difference between being qualified and not being qualified is life itself.

I am not qualified to say what a black belt test should consist of, but this is my opinion as a junior-level karateka, for what it may be worth.

I can say that I agree students should be trained, and pushed hard; but not too hard, to the point of hospitalization and/or death. That's absolutely rediculous and is ludacris!

When I studied under Carlos Machado (cousin of the Gracie Brothers), he trained us all very hard together; but always INSTRUCTED and told us,
"IF you feel that you need to take a break or simply can not go anymore, that you need to pause during the workouts, or during testing; STOP IMMEDIATELY and tell the instructor!!! We will take care of you, you will not be neglected here, we take care of our own! You will know if you need to stop, but don't make it an excuse to get out of the workout itself. Make sure that when you stop, you NEED to stop. If you feel that you can keep going, keep going!"

I agree with my former instructor. If you're exhausted and feel that you need to stop, then stop.
Carlos was a licensed EMT and had certifications in First Aid, CPR and the use of AED. I do believe that it is the law in most states that the instructors be licensed in at least CPR, and can administer first aid at some level and/or degree. If they're not, then they're fools (in my opinion) and aren't worthy of the time or money, as they most likely care less about their students personal well-being. Carlos treated me like I was his little brother, though he treated all of us this way.
He always said, "We are ALL one big family here! Look around you, these are your brothers and sisters while you are within these walls! Treat each other like it, and take care of your fellow man!"

I know that if Carlos' and/or any other instructor felt that someone needed to take a breather, they'd make them take a breather. Carlos' brother in law has made me take a few breathers, even when I just wanted to keep going.

They believed in strength, endurance, and motivational drive... but they did not agree on someone being pushed too far past their limits.


This is the way all dojo's should be, in my opinion..

 

[Lightning Ram]

Most instructors should already know if the student is ready from your regular classes, he should know that the student knows there forms, if your sparring and self-defense is up to the level of belt your testing for. I would say the test is to see if the student stays mentally focus through the test and they execute techniques per there belt level and the instructor sees that the student put there all into it.

My 1st -5th black were 4 hr test.

 

[AriesKai]

Most instructors should already know if the student is ready from your regular classes, he should know that the student knows there forms, if your sparring and self-defense is up to the level of belt your testing for. I would say the test is to see if the student stays mentally focus through the test and they execute techniques per there belt level and the instructor sees that the student put there all into it.

My 1st -5th black were 4 hr test.

MOST instructors...
ALL instructors should know.
All of my instructors always knew my physical capabilities.
If it's a trial class, then that's a different story. We had trial classes all the time when I was studying under Carlos Machado and Saekson Janjira (official and widely-known, famous names in the MA world), and these instructors didn't treat any of these students any different than their normal students - rightly so.
I'd rather go to a trial class and LEARN that those instructors are going to make me earn EVERYTHING, rather than be introduced into a cakewalk.
If it's easy the first time, it'll be easy the rest of the time.

Also, students literally came from all over the world and all over the US to study under these men. Carlos and Saekson had hundreds of students, and had to actually hire several junior instructors to help them through the class. If Carlos or Saekson didn't remember someone, their junior instructors did.
As I said before, it was one big family. Thankfully, Carlos and Saekson both still remembers me to this very day. I don't even train under them anymore.

People that I trained with when I was under Carlos Machado:
Eddie Bravo
Mark Hatmaker
Chuck Norris

Check out his school and biography @ http://www.rcjmachadojiujitsu.com/Carlos-Machado-Brazilian-JiuJitsu-Dallas-instructors.html


It pays to be a Dallas Texan.

 

[Archtkd]

I do believe that it is the law in most states that the instructors be licensed in at least CPR, and can administer first aid at some level and/or degree. If they're not, then they're fools (in my opinion) and aren't worthy of the time or money, as they most likely care less about their students personal well-being.

Good, good thoughts, but the belief about CPR training could be flawed.

I've lived in and practiced Taekwondo in four states in the Midwest (Illinois, Indiana, Ohio and Missouri) and they don't have any law of any kind regulating martial art instructors. In those states there’s no requirement that instructors have a CPR/First Aid certificate, any kind of criminal background check or even a certificate in any martial art that most of us have heard of. Anybody can open a martial arts studio. That includes the proud holders of large 30th Dan certificates in Shank Do Kwan a fighting art they developed and refined during long stints at the Supermax. I think that’s the case with most of the states in the nation, which makes it very crucial that we all observe that old maxim: Caveat Emptor – Buyer Beware.

 

[AriesKai]

Good, good thoughts, but the belief about CPR training could be flawed.

I've lived in and practiced Taekwondo in four states in the Midwest (Illinois, Indiana, Ohio and Missouri) and they don't have any law of any kind regulating martial art instructors. In those states there’s no requirement that instructors have a CPR/First Aid certificate, any kind of criminal background check or even a certificate in any martial art that most of us have heard of. Anybody can open a martial arts studio. That includes the proud holders of large 30th Dan certificates in Shank Do Kwan a fighting art they developed and refined during long stints at the Supermax. I think that’s the case with most of the states in the nation, which makes it very crucial that we all observe that old maxim: Caveat Emptor – Buyer Beware.

Ahahahahaha :rofl:
Amen, brother!
Amen!

 

[searcher]

I have not had the chance to test in EPAK yet for my BB, but I can tell you how my tests are at my C-ryu and I-ryu schools works.

The BB candidates are watched and constantly tested over a few months. The belief is that they should be able to show the required knowledge all the time, not just on a single day. This gives the instructors the chance to draw a better conclusion on where the student is, skill and knowledge wise. The testing process comes to a peak on the last day of testing, which is our "50 man fight." The student gets 1 new opponent every minute until the 50 fights are complete. The style of fighting we use is kickboxing and it is 90-100% contact. Students have the option of stopping at anytime in the test for a failing score, which means they start the evaluation and testing process over again. It may seem harsh to outsiders, but itis what we have done for the time we have been in operation. I am not the originator of this process, butI have went through it and it is only like this for Sho-dan. No exceptions have ever been made. Sometimes things happen and a few bones get broken(mostly noses), but for the most part, the test results in little to no injuries. I think it happens like that due to the BB candidate knowing what is coming and they prepare accordingly.

The C-ryu school has been in operation since 1969 and it has only promoted 22 BBs at present. Of those only 1 is a female, my wife.

 

[just2kicku]

I think a BB test should be hard. I've seen guys who sucked wind half way thru, and guess what, test over you fail. Not only should you know the requirements, I think you should be randomly attacked to see how you react. I also think you should be hit hard to see how you react to getting hit.

My test lasted about 3 1/2 to 4 hours, my "requirement" part was a very small part of that. I was attacked from everywhere with fist, knives and clubs. My instructor wanted to see reaction, not if I memorized numbers and movements. Yeah, I took a shot to the face with a club and got cut on the hand.

Personally, I wouldn't have it any other way. When I got my BB, I felt I truly earned it.

 

[MJS]

I think a BB test should be hard. I've seen guys who sucked wind half way thru, and guess what, test over you fail. Not only should you know the requirements, I think you should be randomly attacked to see how you react. I also think you should be hit hard to see how you react to getting hit.

I agree, and this is why it drives me nuts to train side by side with people who're less serious about the training. Are the casual, looking for something to do after work folks, really going to hold up to the contact of the BB test? Are they going to want the contact? In most cases, the test will probably be modified or watered down. Then again, I have to wonder...way back in the day, not just in the Kenpo/Kaju systems, but the Shotokan, Goju, etc. systems, were there less serious people training? If so, did they survive? Were tests watered down because someone is 50yrs old and 20lbs over weight?

My test lasted about 3 1/2 to 4 hours, my "requirement" part was a very small part of that. I was attacked from everywhere with fist, knives and clubs. My instructor wanted to see reaction, not if I memorized numbers and movements. Yeah, I took a shot to the face with a club and got cut on the hand.

Mine was long as well. Hell my Arnis test resulted in my fingers and hands getting hit with a stick, my head taking a good shot, and the basic feeling that I got my *** kicked. But I passed!

Personally, I wouldn't have it any other way. When I got my BB, I felt I truly earned it.

Amen to that Brother! When I test, I want to feel like I earned it, not had it handed to me.

 

[MJS]

Well, perhaps NOT like this one:



The basic point being that I often read about Black Belt tests that are grueling affairs of endurance, stoic acceptance of punishment, and sometimes abuse. While I agree that a test should be a true test and not a gift or a present or especially a purchased commodity, it would seem that tests should be designed to test what a person has learned and how well they can apply it, not to take them to the ragged edges of life itself. Tests of that nature exist and properly, too; in the military. And that is where they belong; extreme tests for extreme life-or-death functions where the difference between being qualified and not being qualified is life itself.

I am not qualified to say what a black belt test should consist of, but this is my opinion as a junior-level karateka, for what it may be worth.

I have to wonder....obviously the person in that article was pushed to the max. I wonder, were they pushed that hard prior to testing? I mean, as time goes on, the tests should be harder. If this person was not prepping for BB level, well, I can see how they'd be exhausted.

As for the BB test itself...IMO, I think the test should be somewhat of a reflection of what would happen, should they be attacked for real. Its one thing to 'show' what you know, with your attacker, tossing out a half assed punch, off to the side or stopping 5in away from your face, vs. someone who is really trying to hit you. IMO, if they're not facing a bit of pressure, then the belt may as well be handed to them.

 

[LawDog]

A B.B. test is used to see what level of "fighting skills' a student has. The B.B. evaluation / test should then reflect the specific styles way of fighting.
Ex.
*self defense systems - less cardio, more defense technique and some sparring,
*offensive fighting - heavy cardio, more application drills and alot of free fighting(single & multi opponent},
*sport martial arts - should reflect the type of sport, either contact or point etc.
The length of a test will vary according to the amount of basics, presets and application drills that may be required.
Just my opinon here,
A dan test, 4 - 5 hours max,
A dan test with instructors certificate, 5-6 hours max.
A masters test, 6 - 7 hours max,
A master instructors test, 7 - 8 hours.

The overal importance of a B.B. test is simply - quality control.

 

[LawDog]

A p.s.
Most real street situations will happen when your body is in a "cold state" and is really not ready for it. If you can only go one or two rounds after a good warm up then how long could you really go when the ole bod. is in that "not ready" "cold state". Everyone needs to deveolpe their own cardio.