The rank below white belt

[troubleenuf]

Anyone can teach the kid that wants to be there and is motivated. It takes a good teacher to teach and motivate the kid that does not want to be there. It takes a great teacher to take that kid and make him into a true martial artist.

 

[ATC]

well, considering that there are more than one kid in class, seems not fair to dwell too much on one kid who does not want.

Some people are not motivatable. And if that is (quiet possibly) an ingrained behavior, rewarded by the parents and grandparents, you as paid clown won't do much difference in 5 minutes. After all, as MA instructor you don't sign up to motivate those who don't want to be there, since we enjoy the workout and our time at the center.

A good instructor knows how to do both. It is not that hard, Just have to have that knowledge and be willing. Not so good instructors won't know how to, but hopefully they are still learning and moving towards knowing.

 

[StudentCarl]

It's encouraging that so many have faith and confidence that they can motivate everyone no matter what. If you don't have some of that you should question why you're teaching.
I'm a career public school special education teacher. I not only don't give up on anyone, it's my job to figure out the combination to the motivation lock with kids that other people are unsuccessful with. With time I can make it work with almost anyone, and I've worked through issues tougher than this. As a junior assistant in TKD class, my role is to demonstrate, praise, and patiently encourage, offering individual help if needed. I do not yet run class, so my role is limited.
I wish we'd been able to get this young man to continue. I have never met anyone who would not benefit from Taekwondo.
While it's easy to post a comment like 'you shouldn't give up', that adds nothing to the discussion. The real value of this forum is when people share a story or a technique that has worked for them and the situation it was used for. Each of us develops a toolbox of techniques working with people, just like with how we perform or teach techniques. None of us can ever know too much, and I look forward to learning more from the experts here.

 

[Carol]

But why give up on a child on his first day out before the warmups are even over? I could understand if he was hurting someone, or putting a classmate at risk, but it sounded like this child's biggest sin was simply being a stick in the mud. I don't know how old this person is but being obstinate and then being told to leave the mat and go sit with his family sounds like this child is nowhere near adulthood, at least emotionally speaking.

For adults, sure. Run the school as hard core as one likes and toss 'em off the mat if they don't fall in to one's liking after 5 minutes on their first time out. But for an instructor to do this to a child? It just doesn't sound like age-appropriate behaviour.

 

[StudentCarl]

But why give up on a child on his first day out before the warmups are even over? I could understand if he was hurting someone, or putting a classmate at risk, but it sounded like this child's biggest sin was simply being a stick in the mud. I don't know how old this person is but being obstinate and then being told to leave the mat and go sit with his family sounds like this child is nowhere near adulthood, at least emotionally speaking.

For adults, sure. Run the school as hard core as one likes and toss 'em off the mat if they don't fall in to one's liking after 5 minutes on their first time out. But for an instructor to do this to a child? It just doesn't sound like age-appropriate behaviour.

I talked with him for almost 10 minutes trying get any kind of positive response or movement, trying to get him to talk, etc. Class adjusted over to the side and there he and I sat. This was a kids class. The second dan assistant instructor talked with him for at least another 5. If you're somehow suggesting that it's hardcore to have someone leave the floor after they won't do anything for that long, you're welcome to your kind of class. You're still overlooking many of the details in this thread in your rush to judge. I'm done explaining.

 

[shesulsa]

I wouldn't have given him that much attention from the get-go. I would just say, "just follow along and do the best you can," and "you can do it" and "that's awesome!" even if it wasn't awesome.

Ignore the negative as much as you can, praise effort and success. If he knows right from the start his behavior gets your attention, guess what? It will continue ... and continue ... and continue.

I dont know what other kind of expert you wanna talk to - I only teach students who are intellectually compromised, autistic, bipolar, physically challenged, emotionally challenged, normal, talented, gifted, etcetera.

I have a whiner. He has been whining and crying and performed every exercise slower than everyone else in class since the very beginning. He still does a little bit, but FAR less than he used to.

It has been almost 2 years now. He will probably whine for a few more until he figures out he doesn't have to whine anymore.

My autistic student likes to try to call the shots too. It's really quite simple with him - we don't move forward until he complies (unless he's melting down, of course, and we wait until he's better or he leaves).

Good luck with your student. Sorry we weren't more help.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

It's encouraging that so many have faith and confidence that they can motivate everyone no matter what. If you don't have some of that you should question why you're teaching.
I'm a career public school special education teacher. I not only don't give up on anyone, it's my job to figure out the combination to the motivation lock with kids that other people are unsuccessful with. With time I can make it work with almost anyone, and I've worked through issues tougher than this. As a junior assistant in TKD class, my role is to demonstrate, praise, and patiently encourage, offering individual help if needed. I do not yet run class, so my role is limited.
I wish we'd been able to get this young man to continue. I have never met anyone who would not benefit from Taekwondo.
While it's easy to post a comment like 'you shouldn't give up', that adds nothing to the discussion. The real value of this forum is when people share a story or a technique that has worked for them and the situation it was used for. Each of us develops a toolbox of techniques working with people, just like with how we perform or teach techniques. None of us can ever know too much, and I look forward to learning more from the experts here.

I cant agree with the "never give up" attitude. Some people just wont get motivated to do MA regardless of how good the instructor is. A good example would be me learning to play golf. Other than the odd hit of golf I have absolutely no interest in the sport. It wouldnt matter how good a golf instructor you could find me, it will still make no difference, I am simply not interested in learning how to play golf. We get kids all the time at tkd where mum or dad (or both) have decided on behalf of little johnny that he needs to do tkd and little johnny just isnt interested. No matter what you do you can see in his eyes that he just has no interest in tkd. I am a believer that within reason that kid should be treated no differently to the other kids. It is unfair for the others to lose time out of class while the unmotivated kid gets extra attention to try and keep him motivated. I always secretly hope those sort of kids will just give it up and go and find a hobby they can be passionate about. It doesnt help them or other class members for them to stick around if they arent motivated to do so.

 

[CK1980]

First, I want to apologize for necro-posting... But, I read through this thread and found something very interesting...

I remember when I started in Martial Arts... I was already an adult, and my first class consisted of "this is how you stand, this is a punch". At the end of my 2 "trial classes" I was awarded my white belt and accepted as a student... I thought I was in pretty decent shape already, but I soon found out that I wasn't... Just doing 20 push-ups was uncomfortable. A few months later, I took my first belt test and almost failed because I took a jab kick to the gut and it knocked the wind out of me. I recovered, and I passed (barely). Fast forward two years, I took my test for blue belt and had to fight two 3 minute rounds (instead of one) and a fresh opponent each time... I took a spinning back kick (would have hit me in the head but I got a cover up just in time) that knocked me down to one knee. I immediately sprung back up and got back into the fight. At the end of that test, my instructor acknowledged how far I had came from being a "weak body" into being strong enough to take a hit.

The moral of the story is, if my first two classes had been all physical training, I probably would have said "F- That" and walked out. And that's coming from an adult! Children are much more critical of something that is hard and it's easy for them to get discouraged. In the case of the story of the 9 yr old from the original post, I hope he one day returns to the martial arts and finds a passion for it.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

What style of TKD do you study? The testing is definitely more hard-core than I've seen at the 1/2 dozen or so WTF clubs I have been to (where everyone passes).

 

[skribs]

I've noticed a couple of different attitudes in my class (which is a beginner's class). The first is the headstrong type. I think of them (well, me too) as a toddler running; they don't really run, they just duck their head and catch themselves with their feet really fast until the fall over or charge into something. If there's a technique to be learned, we'll do it full force as best we can until our master corrects our technique (unless he explicitly tells us to take it slow while we learn it). We'll fall on our butts doing spin and/or high kicks. We'll throw wacky combinations that expend more energy and have less effect. Some take it too far and rarely slow down enough to learn how to do the techniques properly.

The other side of the coin is the timid type. These people would rather do a technique correctly or not do it at all. They get self conscious after the first couple reps and their nerves wreck their technique after that. Sometimes they fall into the "I can't" trap after a few reps, realizing they're not doing it perfect, and either skip a few reps or just wait for the next technique. While they get less muscle memory in doing the technique incorrectly, it takes longer to notice problems in the technique if you don't practice as much.

Either way, as long as you're willing to improve, both groups I think kind of converge. Once you know the basic mechanics of the techniques, you can keep going. Us headstrong folk will try to do 540 and 720 kicks, and the timid type will just continue to hone the more practical moves.

Regarding the OP, if someone just doesn't want to train, they aren't going to train. Maybe a different school would suit him better, or maybe a different sport entirely. I think if it's not something he wants to work hard to be good at, then it's probably not something his parents should pay for classes for. Just my opinionated 2c.

 

[CK1980]

I actually do not study, nor have I ever studied TKD... I actually ended up on this thread from another similar topiced (real word?) thread.

 

[Kframe]

He is a very young kid. He expects to come to a Tae kwon Do class and learn to do kicks, because that is what, in his mind, tkd is about. Honestly prospective students need there own separate thing, duck walking and other conditioning is not what is called for in the intro class. Showing and teaching him a sampling of the very thing he came to try out is what is needed. His expectations were not met, because he is a kid, he expected to kick, and do kick like things repeatedly. Not duck walk or plank. (I hate planks)

What the real lesson here is, their needs to be a intro class, were the gist of tkd is shown, and some basic things taught to them that give the right impression of what tkd is.

Had there been a properly structured intro class, we would not have this thread.

 

[CK1980]

I would have to agree with that... Everywhere I have ever studied the first class has been less about physical conditioning and more about "fun" stuff. Even in an adult curriculum.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

I would have to agree with that... Everywhere I have ever studied the first class has been less about physical conditioning and more about "fun" stuff. Even in an adult curriculum.

My one criticism about intro classes is that it may be one on one with the Master, and then after the 1-3 intro classes, and the student joins, the student hardly ever sees one on one again.

 

[CK1980]

My experience has been much different in that area... I have always gone to smaller schools where the head instructor/master is very much involved. While the 1-on-1 time reduces with time, everyone still gets some personal attention at some point with the instructor...

In my experiences, as a white belt, you get a little of the personal time because you just aren't doing as much. The more advanced students get less because they have already established a foundation and really only need enough time to be shown something and then spot-checking to fine tune it. The funny part is when you are in between new and advanced... That tends to be where my instructors always spent the most time, developing the foundation, fine tuning old skills, introducing new skills, etc, etc, etc.

 

[Steve]

Since the thread is active again, my thought is that I don't necessarily have a problem with the way the op handled the situation.

What kind of bothers me is the ease with which some concluded that because the child wasn't into tkd, he was universally lazy and unmotivated.

My belief is that there is something healthy out there for every kid, and maybe the reality of tkd just isn't his thing. He might prefer golf, band, chess, baseball or any number of other positive activities.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

[WaterGal]

He is a very young kid. He expects to come to a Tae kwon Do class and learn to do kicks, because that is what, in his mind, tkd is about. Honestly prospective students need there own separate thing, duck walking and other conditioning is not what is called for in the intro class. Showing and teaching him a sampling of the very thing he came to try out is what is needed. His expectations were not met, because he is a kid, he expected to kick, and do kick like things repeatedly. Not duck walk or plank. (I hate planks)

What the real lesson here is, their needs to be a intro class, were the gist of tkd is shown, and some basic things taught to them that give the right impression of what tkd is.

Had there been a properly structured intro class, we would not have this thread.

But don't you think an intro class should introduce the prospective student to what classes at the school are like? To me, that's the whole point of an intro class. If you spend your whole intro class doing kicks, sign up, and after that all your classes are spent 20 minutes doing exercise, 20 minutes doing forms, and 20 minutes sparring, you might feel a little tricked.

 

[donald1]

It's hard working with kids sometimes I had this one kid who didn't know when to quite talking, another who would sit and cry when she would get tired and one last kid who would come back the next class and already forgot everything he learned last class

Patients... It does get better, best of luck with your teaching

 

[Tames D]

Since the thread is active again, my thought is that I don't necessarily have a problem with the way the op handled the situation.

What kind of bothers me is the ease with which some concluded that because the child wasn't into tkd, he was universally lazy and unmotivated.

My belief is that there is something healthy out there for every kid, and maybe the reality of tkd just isn't his thing. He might prefer golf, band, chess, baseball or any number of other positive activities.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

I may have missed something and I apologize if I did. But was the kid not interested in TKD or was it the duckwalk he didn't like? I mean, people join martial art clubs to learn martial arts. Duckwalking? I would have been diaspointed and walked away as well. I know physical fitness is a good thing but join a gym if thats what you want. If you're paying a hundred plus $ a month to learn to fight, teach the kid to fight.

 

[DennisBreene]

Since the thread is active again, my thought is that I don't necessarily have a problem with the way the op handled the situation.

What kind of bothers me is the ease with which some concluded that because the child wasn't into tkd, he was universally lazy and unmotivated.

My belief is that there is something healthy out there for every kid, and maybe the reality of tkd just isn't his thing. He might prefer golf, band, chess, baseball or any number of other positive activities.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

I may have misunderstood the events as explained by StudentCarl but it was my impression that he was asked to sit with his parents after steadfastly refusing to move. Given the attempts to motivate him and the time invested, it seems like a reasonable decision. I don't know if the parents were told that he was not felt to be a fit candidate for class or if they were invited to try again on another day. With children, I think that giving them multiple chances to succeed is always appropriate (adults as well). Sometimes what the child takes away from a martial arts "career" has far less to do with the kicking and punching and more to do with learning to persist and overcome failure and difficulty.