Should lower belts correct the attitude of balck belts?

[Gwai Lo Dan]

In a taekwondo situation the 16 year old outranks you, period. He has the time in at his club and he has earned his rank.

Agreed. I show respect to everyone, calling 10 year old BB's "sir" for instance. Going to the old old topic of "earning rank" and "what is a BB", I will say that I am not a fan of the TKD system of BB designation. I abide by it though, as it is the system and I follow the system.

Specifically, as far as I can see, right or wrong, BB means "I spent 3-5 years, showed up, tried, and paid my $500 or more for testing". I wish it were an indicator of quality and maturity, but the reality is, it is not an indicator of neither. Maybe at a school here or a school there it is, but at many many schools, it is not. Every school I see has talented BB's, and less talented BB's. I would compare it to a high school diploma where there is a HUGE difference between the kid with a 95% average, and the kid with the 62% average who just needs his diploma to enter a trade.

Nevertheless, I agree with showing equal respect to all the BB's. I just wish the system of "earning rank" as you say were different.

 

[ETinCYQX]

I can't really argue that as it's subjective. High school diploma is a good example, do you dislike the idea of a "C student" having a black belt? For me, I think the only objective requirement is technical knowledge and good form. Athleticism, superior understanding, natural talent, etc. can separate the A+ student from the C student, but IMHO the C student deserves his belt just as well as the A student.

I'm avoiding the junior BB subject on purpose because I don't really have a well developed opinion on it yet. I do think that in order to have high level WTF fighters, they have to be fighting "black belt" divisions by 12-13, so I see the validity there, but I'm hesitant to express an opinion one way or the other on junior BB's outside of that.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

Good points. I really am not trying to reopen the "what is a BB" thread", so I will breifly answer "yes, give the C student the BB". Where do you draw the line though?

The continuing academic analogy is "Should someone who reads at a grade 2-3 level get a high school diploma?" I would say yes to that too, given the "need" for a high school diploma to even become a barber (in Ontario Canada at least). Without a high school diploma, a person has no future. In other words, the school has to play the game of giving the diploma, since that is what everyone else is doing and that is the expectation for the students' life progression.

So the TKD BB is the same. Everyone promotes on time, effort, and money, and that is now the expectation. Hence although I respect the TKD BB's, I REALLY respect the BJJ BB's, because the BB talks of their skills. And I wish the TKD system were more like the BJJ system.

 

[Cyriacus]

Yo.

Standards for black belts differ from place to place.
There is no single standard, and therefore no 'line' can exist.

*disappears*

PS: You dont need a high school diploma if you go take... whats it called? That thing where you get a certification as an adult which is equivelant?

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

PS: You dont need a high school diploma if you go take... whats it called? That thing where you get a certification as an adult which is equivelant?

I think you mean the GED. My comment on the diploma requirement to be a barber in Ontario Canada is from here...I checked before posting. "In Ontario, completion of high school is required." I think GED is considered a diploma.
http://www.tcu.gov.on.ca/eng/labourmarket/ojf/pdf/6271_e.pdf

 

[ETinCYQX]

Good points. I really am not trying to reopen the "what is a BB" thread", so I will breifly answer "yes, give the C student the BB". Where do you draw the line though?

The continuing academic analogy is "Should someone who reads at a grade 2-3 level get a high school diploma?" I would say yes to that too, given the "need" for a high school diploma to even become a barber (in Ontario Canada at least). Without a high school diploma, a person has no future. In other words, the school has to play the game of giving the diploma, since that is what everyone else is doing and that is the expectation for the students' life progression.

So the TKD BB is the same. Everyone promotes on time, effort, and money, and that is now the expectation. Hence although I respect the TKD BB's, I REALLY respect the BJJ BB's, because the BB talks of their skills. And I wish the TKD system were more like the BJJ system.

Their system works for them and it's really a semantics question. BJJ artists tend to take on responsibility in the club, teach, and demonstrate a certain maturity in their game around the purple belt. When a student is helping to teach taekwondo, doing some odd work around the dojang, and starting to come into their own and understand what they are doing, sounds like 1st Dan, right? It's a difference in where you expect real martial maturity to begin. We like to see it around the black belt, BJJ'ists like to see it around purple. It really isn't a question of quality like people think it is, it's a question of perception. (For this point I am leaving out Poom belts as I consider them a sport tool and nothing else.)

The line is pretty clear in my eyes though: Technical knowledge, good form on all techniques, and good effort put forward. What is a good effort is subjective and based on what I know about the candidate from training with them. If you have A+ potential and put toward a C effort, nope. If a C potential is all you have, you get the belt. Keep in mind a C is a passing grade, which I'm equating with technical knowledge, good form, and the other concrete black belt requirements.

Sorry to go off on "what is a BB" again, but .

As for the original question, correcting a junior black belt's attitude is perfectly fine once you're a long standing club member IMHO and he knows you a little. A stranger may not be so well received for doing that. The adult seniority, although theoretically it's unimportant in taekwondo, is rarely discounted.