Self-Defense - Closed room w/obstructions environment

[CobraUSA]

Good evening all, and thank you for the previous very warm welcome to MT.

I have a question regarding self-defense in a specific type of scenario, being the "closed room w/obstructions environment."
I understand that preparing only for specific types of scenarios should be avoided, however, I also understand that this is a type of environment that should be considered, just as a desert, arctic, jungle, mountain, (etc.) environment for many different things (including recreational activities, combat, hunting/fishing, etc). I associate the closed room w/obstructions environment just as much as a threat as any other. A room full of furniture and obstructions in the way can trip you, hinder/block your movement, trip you during movement and keep you off balance.
I personally look at a room like a ring or a cage. However, the obstructions (with the only exception of the referee) will never be present, so working a room environment with obstructions isn't exactly the same as the ring or the cage.
If you have an obstruction between you and your attacker(s), such as a glass dining-room table, and you're no where near a route of escape, and you're unarmed, how do you defend yourself under these circumstances? If you have an obstruction blocking or hindering your movement to properly perform technique [with form], what do you do then?
With the obstructions in mind, this can also be a distraction, further assisting your attacker(s). Using the obstructions as weapons *could* be a possibility... But what if it isn't?
And if you're a taller/broader (mesomorph) guy, like me, and you're faced with a shorter and stockier attacker who's closer to your center of gravity (who typically has better coordination in this type of situation), this can present a world of trouble - unless you've trained well for it.

I suppose a good way to answer this would be to explain how you, as an experienced martial artist, could handle or adapt to this type of situation with the principles and theories behind your respective martial arts system. Or otherwise, how you feel any principle and theory behind a given martial arts system can help prepare you to adapt to this type of situation.

 

[grumpywolfman]

... I suppose a good way to answer this would be to explain how you, as an experienced martial artist, could handle or adapt to this type of situation with the principles and theories behind your respective martial arts system. Or otherwise, how you feel any principle and theory behind a given martial arts system can help prepare you to adapt to this type of situation.

Hello Cobra,

If cornered like an animal, then IMO, fight like one: no hesitation, anything goes, use everything in the environment to create openings and opportunities to get out the door as quickly as possible. I prefer tools over techniques. I tend to gravitate more towards martial arts that focus on concepts and tools over specific technique sequanced responses that require me to try and recall at the moment I would need them. For fighting multiple opponents for example, the concept would be to avoid ever letting a person get behind you - keep moving, and force them to have to get around each other to try and reach you while trying to reach the exit as quickly as possible.

 

[Chris Parker]

Hi Cobra.

First off, this isn't really what this section is for, a thread like this is better suited to somewhere like the "General Self Defence" forum. That said, I have to say that this question is impossible to actually answer, as there simply isn't enough information to go on. The answer could be almost anything, depending on the nature of the attack/attacker, the exact size of the room, what's inside, what art is practiced, and more. Really, to my mind, this is a non-question from the get-go. To address what could be done (from a martial training viewpoint), well, the only thing is to train for awareness of the environment, and to keep that in mind in all your training methods.

 

[Cirdan]

Like any other scenario, do whatever it takes to maximize the advantages and minimize the weaknesses present in the situation to improve your chanses of a favorable outcome.
There are way too many variables present to give anything except a general awnser to this one.

 

[jks9199]

Admin Note:

Thread moved to a more appropriate forum.


jks9199
Asst. Administrator

 

[geezer]

Hmmm. I train in a city park with a minimum of equipment and ammenities. We have open space, access to shade, water, bathrooms, a picnic table and a place to hang a wall bag. The rest we bring. Oh and the climate here permits year-round outdoor training (if the heat doesn't bother you too much). With the way we train ...a handful of dedicated students with good motivation but tight budgets, it works for us. Lessons are cheaper if you don't have much overhead.

Still, once in a while I like to fantasize about how I'd outfit a big fancy school if I had plenty of cash. Setting up scenarios like those discussed in the OP would be really fun, and good training too. Imagine if you had a storeroom full of good strong props, furniture, etc, that would allow you to set up various practice scenarios mimicking the kinds of environments (outdoor and indoor) where you might be called upon to defend yourself. Familiarity with how to use what the OP referred to as "obstructions" to your advantage is a good thing to train. If it is an "obstruction" to you, it can be equally an obstruction" to your attacker. As the OP mentioned, walls, furniture and ordinary objects can also be weapons to the trained martial artist. Besides, training like that would be a lot of fun, specially if you got to smash a lot of stuff! :lol:

 

[blindsage]

This kind of context is why I'm glad I train Taijiquan.

 

[grumpywolfman]

this kind of context is why i'm glad i train taijiquan.

lol

 

[Rich Parsons]

Good evening all, and thank you for the previous very warm welcome to MT.

I have a question regarding self-defense in a specific type of scenario, being the "closed room w/obstructions environment."
I understand that preparing only for specific types of scenarios should be avoided, however, I also understand that this is a type of environment that should be considered, just as a desert, arctic, jungle, mountain, (etc.) environment for many different things (including recreational activities, combat, hunting/fishing, etc). I associate the closed room w/obstructions environment just as much as a threat as any other. A room full of furniture and obstructions in the way can trip you, hinder/block your movement, trip you during movement and keep you off balance.
I personally look at a room like a ring or a cage. However, the obstructions (with the only exception of the referee) will never be present, so working a room environment with obstructions isn't exactly the same as the ring or the cage.
If you have an obstruction between you and your attacker(s), such as a glass dining-room table, and you're no where near a route of escape, and you're unarmed, how do you defend yourself under these circumstances? If you have an obstruction blocking or hindering your movement to properly perform technique [with form], what do you do then?
With the obstructions in mind, this can also be a distraction, further assisting your attacker(s). Using the obstructions as weapons *could* be a possibility... But what if it isn't?
And if you're a taller/broader (mesomorph) guy, like me, and you're faced with a shorter and stockier attacker who's closer to your center of gravity (who typically has better coordination in this type of situation), this can present a world of trouble - unless you've trained well for it.

I suppose a good way to answer this would be to explain how you, as an experienced martial artist, could handle or adapt to this type of situation with the principles and theories behind your respective martial arts system. Or otherwise, how you feel any principle and theory behind a given martial arts system can help prepare you to adapt to this type of situation.

While I agree with Chris Parker about needing more information and his comment about training for awareness I thought I might comment, in a funny, and not so funny way.

1) I would climb the wall like Spider man.
2) I would grab the bat projectile from my belt and through it.
3) I would stomp the table and use the glass to create a scene that any slasher movie would be proud of.
4) I might not enter into a house I thought this might happen. If I did have to enter, I would stand in a very obvious manner where I could control the flow and have access to exits.
5) If it was my house you might just reach or look for the nearest weapon on the wall or table or floor. And yes I like to make sure my guests feel comfortable and have access to weapons. *Raising eyebrows* I am serious on this one.
6) I would ask the person to step outside. Once outside I would close and lock the door and call the police.
7) I would reach for my phone and call the police.
8) I would call out to my other friends in the house and let them know there was an issue.
9) I would explain in great detail to person what I was going to them once I caught them. (* Yes become the aggressor just like the person that said fight back like an animal *)
10) ...

... means it goes on and on and on and on and well ... , so it depends.

 

[MJS]

Good evening all, and thank you for the previous very warm welcome to MT.

I have a question regarding self-defense in a specific type of scenario, being the "closed room w/obstructions environment."
I understand that preparing only for specific types of scenarios should be avoided, however, I also understand that this is a type of environment that should be considered, just as a desert, arctic, jungle, mountain, (etc.) environment for many different things (including recreational activities, combat, hunting/fishing, etc). I associate the closed room w/obstructions environment just as much as a threat as any other. A room full of furniture and obstructions in the way can trip you, hinder/block your movement, trip you during movement and keep you off balance.
I personally look at a room like a ring or a cage. However, the obstructions (with the only exception of the referee) will never be present, so working a room environment with obstructions isn't exactly the same as the ring or the cage.
If you have an obstruction between you and your attacker(s), such as a glass dining-room table, and you're no where near a route of escape, and you're unarmed, how do you defend yourself under these circumstances? If you have an obstruction blocking or hindering your movement to properly perform technique [with form], what do you do then?
With the obstructions in mind, this can also be a distraction, further assisting your attacker(s). Using the obstructions as weapons *could* be a possibility... But what if it isn't?
And if you're a taller/broader (mesomorph) guy, like me, and you're faced with a shorter and stockier attacker who's closer to your center of gravity (who typically has better coordination in this type of situation), this can present a world of trouble - unless you've trained well for it.

I suppose a good way to answer this would be to explain how you, as an experienced martial artist, could handle or adapt to this type of situation with the principles and theories behind your respective martial arts system. Or otherwise, how you feel any principle and theory behind a given martial arts system can help prepare you to adapt to this type of situation.

An obstruction can buy you some time, however, IMO, I don't think that one should use that obstruction for an extended period of time. In other words, using your table example....how long is that going to last....the badguy chasing you around the table? You're going to have to physically defend yourself at some point. Environment will dictate what we can/can't do, however, that doesnt mean that we are left with no defenses at all.

 

[stonewall1350]

If yyou train right...the environment is certainly your weapon. I have used benches in self defense before...pushing people over them to control the flow so that I could take my time and tee off. But if cornered I would be the proverbial (not real) bull in a china shop.

 

[CobraUSA]

Hmmm. I train in a city park with a minimum of equipment and ammenities. We have open space, access to shade, water, bathrooms, a picnic table and a place to hang a wall bag. The rest we bring. Oh and the climate here permits year-round outdoor training (if the heat doesn't bother you too much). With the way we train ...a handful of dedicated students with good motivation but tight budgets, it works for us. Lessons are cheaper if you don't have much overhead.

Still, once in a while I like to fantasize about how I'd outfit a big fancy school if I had plenty of cash. Setting up scenarios like those discussed in the OP would be really fun, and good training too. Imagine if you had a storeroom full of good strong props, furniture, etc, that would allow you to set up various practice scenarios mimicking the kinds of environments (outdoor and indoor) where you might be called upon to defend yourself. Familiarity with how to use what the OP referred to as "obstructions" to your advantage is a good thing to train. If it is an "obstruction" to you, it can be equally an obstruction" to your attacker. As the OP mentioned, walls, furniture and ordinary objects can also be weapons to the trained martial artist. Besides, training like that would be a lot of fun, specially if you got to smash a lot of stuff! :lol:

Hahahaha geezer, that would be very fun! If you ever come to the San Diego for a seminar, i'd like to participate!

 

[CobraUSA]

While I agree with Chris Parker about needing more information and his comment about training for awareness I thought I might comment, in a funny, and not so funny way.

1) I would climb the wall like Spider man.
2) I would grab the bat projectile from my belt and through it.
3) I would stomp the table and use the glass to create a scene that any slasher movie would be proud of.
4) I might not enter into a house I thought this might happen. If I did have to enter, I would stand in a very obvious manner where I could control the flow and have access to exits.
5) If it was my house you might just reach or look for the nearest weapon on the wall or table or floor. And yes I like to make sure my guests feel comfortable and have access to weapons. *Raising eyebrows* I am serious on this one.
6) I would ask the person to step outside. Once outside I would close and lock the door and call the police.
7) I would reach for my phone and call the police.
8) I would call out to my other friends in the house and let them know there was an issue.
9) I would explain in great detail to person what I was going to them once I caught them. (* Yes become the aggressor just like the person that said fight back like an animal *)
10) ...

... means it goes on and on and on and on and well ... , so it depends.

Hahaha I'm agreeing with all of these ideas. For real though, being aggressive in a situation like this sounds like it may be the best option. I just wanted to hear some concepts from the more experienced martial artists here!

 

[CobraUSA]

Thank you all for your responses! It appears that my question was answered, and it was just as I thought: you fight the way you've trained, you maintain situational awareness, and you exploit. One thing extra that i'd learned, but have briefly considered in the past, from your answers is that being aggressive to create an opening can most certainly help in this type of situation.

Thanks again, all!

-CobraUSA

 

[Chris Parker]

Hahaha I'm agreeing with all of these ideas. For real though, being aggressive in a situation like this sounds like it may be the best option. I just wanted to hear some concepts from the more experienced martial artists here!

Hmm, just being aggressive isn't necessarily the best thing, especially if there are obstructions around... you could very easily trip over something by going at it hammer and tongs. Again, it just depends on exactly what else is going on, what the nature of the assault is, what the obstructions are, what the room is like, and so on.

 

[Cyriacus]

Hmm, just being aggressive isn't necessarily the best thing, especially if there are obstructions around... you could very easily trip over something by going at it hammer and tongs. Again, it just depends on exactly what else is going on, what the nature of the assault is, what the obstructions are, what the room is like, and so on.

That reminds Me - If the other guy is being motivated by Anger, Aggression could potentially make Him more Aggressive, couldnt it?

 

[Chris Parker]

Potentially, yes. But then again, aggression can be used as a good verbal de-escalation technique... depending on the circumstances....

 

[Supra Vijai]

That reminds Me - If the other guy is being motivated by Anger, Aggression could potentially make Him more Aggressive, couldnt it?

The way I understand it is you need to match your opponent, not try to "win" by aggression. Matching them can also indicate to them you are not as easy a target as they would have liked, which means they now have the very real possibility of getting hurt themselves. Mind you, we also focus on a range of approaches that may be taken by a predator so the concept of matching is more of a focus for us.

With regards to the OP, everything has been covered quite well already but just to add on to it, a game a couple of friends and I have been playing almost without realizing for a little while now is whenever we go to a restaurant or a bar or wherever; we take note of exits, people - how many, how many groups, where they tend to gravitate etc, objects in the area, possible hazards such as spills or steps, what could be a weapon, how much alcohol is around and we just file that away and keep an eye on things.

For instance last night I visited 2 separate bars with 2 separate groups of people. The first one, we left because something felt off. This is a place we used to go to regularly, we know all the staff as it's around the corner from work and is where everyone heads on a Friday evening but last night the atmosphere seemed different and we didn't care to stick around to find out why. The second place was somewhere I've never been before (and spent most of my time in one section) yet I can lay out the floor plan for you, tell you where the vast majority of the people were, where the exits were and even how many glasses got broken in the time we were there. Again, something felt off so I gathered the two friends I was responsible for and we headed out. Speaking to one of my other friends today, a fight broke out and the police got involved not long after.

Just keep your awareness and wits about you, if you must drink then do it somewhere safe (your home or a friends place - it's cheaper and better for your health) and don't ignore that niggling feeling everyone gets from time to time. That could very really save your life

 

[Cyriacus]

Ive already avoided getting into a fight simply by locking My car door after seeing someone who felt unusual, so to speak.
I mean, sure, it turned out to be multiple doped youths who I couldnt see at first, who then proceeded to become a bit hostile, and try to open the doors of all the vehicles near them. It was nearly a year ago now, but Im still a bit proud of it, simply because its a prime example of situational awareness, on My part.

I always drink at home or at a friends, because most of the time when I drink, its either with someone whos come over, or when I go and see someone.
I was never one for pub crawling

Now, overall;
Mightnt matching be a bit hard under pressure? Im sure it works, but Im just looking at how it may be hard to tell the difference between someone wildly swinging an arm at You, and someone intent on doing it more than once, in a splitsecond.

 

[Supra Vijai]

Ive already avoided getting into a fight simply by locking My car door after seeing someone who felt unusual, so to speak.
I mean, sure, it turned out to be multiple doped youths who I couldnt see at first, who then proceeded to become a bit hostile, and try to open the doors of all the vehicles near them. It was nearly a year ago now, but Im still a bit proud of it, simply because its a prime example of situational awareness, on My part.

I always drink at home or at a friends, because most of the time when I drink, its either with someone whos come over, or when I go and see someone.
I was never one for pub crawling

Yeah I know what you mean about not being one for the pub crawl scene. It's never interested me and last night was the first time I've gone out to a bar in a long time (aside from a social after work wind down thing), let alone multiple places in the same night. For all I know it might have just been my unease with the bar scene that had me on alert but at the end of the day, I'm glad I listened to instinct With regards to drinking at home or at a friends, obviously not directed at you mate or any one individual, just my personal philosophy in the grand scheme of getting home safe. I personally don't tie my social standing or ability to have fun to alcohol but hey, I might just be getting old and boring

Now, overall;
Mightnt matching be a bit hard under pressure? Im sure it works, but Im just looking at how it may be hard to tell the difference between someone wildly swinging an arm at You, and someone intent on doing it more than once, in a splitsecond.

If someone is launching a hit, things are a bit beyond the verbal de-escalation or even, pre-emptive strike stage. Generally from what I've come across both in class and in my own reading and researching is that a predator will try engage you first; whether it's "hey! what the f#@! you lookin at?" or "hey man, do you have the time/a light/whatever" or some other variant. Generally this offers the predator the time to get you off guard and preoccupied with the question so they can move in and hit you. There is an interview process that precedes most assaults so the predator can assess if you are an easy or a hard target, their chances of winning and getting what they want and also, the possibility of them getting hurt in the process. Now of course, this applies to a certain type of predator and certain types of situations. Someone mugging you at an atm or in a dark alley (why were you there in the first place??) is a bit different but it's a good base to work off for training mindset. Social conditioning is a pain in the bum to work past unfortunately so when someone asks for the time or directions, the first instinct is to answer or help rather than wonder if it's a lead up to an assault.

The concept of matching therefore is used well before things get physical. That said, I'm not advocating paranoia by any means, if you're standing outside somewhere smoking and someone walks up with a cigarette asking for a light, by all means, let them borrow it. Just don't take your eyes off the person or let your brain shut off whilst your retrieve it