Scenario training...

[ballen0351]

Then you show some scenario trading.

Because you are a bit unbelievable at the moment.

Why is everything super secret with you guys?

It's not super secret that's just not scenario training that's a skit or acting to demonstrate a principal to students in the police academy about being nice to people can go along way. They guy wanted his hat. Had they been a jerk and not given him the hat it may have turned into a fight.

 

[jks9199]

Then you show some scenario trading.

Because you are a bit unbelievable at the moment.

Why is everything super secret with you guys?

It's not super secret that's just not scenario training that's a skit or acting to demonstrate a principal to students in the police academy about being nice to people can go along way. They guy wanted his hat. Had they been a jerk and not given him the hat it may have turned into a fight.

There are some things that we do try to keep close to the vest; they're tactics and approaches we use to try to ensure we go home at the end of the day. But, honestly, most of them can be found out there.

While many academies do video record most of the training for liability reasons -- it's not necessarily stuff we can lay hands on and share publicly. And I'm not sifting through everything that pops up on a web search for them to find some good ones. You can do that. The one about the hat was actually being well conducted -- but it wasn't what you wanted to see. You want to see training where people fight. I get it. I'm just not wading through videos to find that. And, even then, without all of the context, it's hard to evaluate and too easy to twist.

 

[drop bear]

It's not super secret that's just not scenario training that's a skit or acting to demonstrate a principal to students in the police academy about being nice to people can go along way. They guy wanted his hat. Had they been a jerk and not given him the hat it may have turned into a fight.

I am not disagreeing. But what does it cost to do that throw properly?

I have mentioned why? Moments in training.

Even with our drills we are expected to do all of it right.

 

[drop bear]

There are some things that we do try to keep close to the vest; they're tactics and approaches we use to try to ensure we go home at the end of the day. But, honestly, most of them can be found out there.

While many academies do video record most of the training for liability reasons -- it's not necessarily stuff we can lay hands on and share publicly. And I'm not sifting through everything that pops up on a web search for them to find some good ones. You can do that. The one about the hat was actually being well conducted -- but it wasn't what you wanted to see. You want to see training where people fight. I get it. I'm just not wading through videos to find that. And, even then, without all of the context, it's hard to evaluate and too easy to twist.

I am not trying to twist anything. I maintain a stance on compliance in training. At the point of scenario it probably should be resisted. Scenarios are a skills test.

Eg. Well sorta.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=11K32LpOCE8

Ambush counter ambush. This sort of droll opens itself to bad role playing as the attacker can use nastier methods to gain advantage the defender is forced to use better methods to defend.

So say the next time the attacker blocks the door. And so on.

Otherwise your scenarios fall into this trap.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gNN0bI0QLAg

Defend a takedown form someone who can't do one.

 

[ballen0351]

I am not disagreeing. But what does it cost to do that throw properly?

I have mentioned why? Moments in training.

Even with our drills we are expected to do all of it right.

Because the throw has ZERO to do with the drill. Because they are all cops and the guy just falls down because they don't want to hurt each other doing a drill that has ZERO to do with the throw. Because it's not Not a self defense video. Because he didn't need to the guy went down.

 

[Tgace]

Otherwise your scenarios fall into this trap.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gNN0bI0QLAg

Defend a takedown form someone who can't do one.

Real "Scenario Training" is not about "defending from a takedown".

I don't know how clearer we can be. Scenario training in a professional context has nothing to do with martial arts "techniques" against resistance. You train those on the mat/in the ring. Your argument is akin to saying that military war games are useless because we don't actually fire live rounds at each other.

 

[RTKDCMB]

There are some things that we do try to keep close to the vest; they're tactics and approaches we use to try to ensure we go home at the end of the day. But, honestly, most of them can be found out there.

While many academies do video record most of the training for liability reasons -- it's not necessarily stuff we can lay hands on and share publicly.

Plus you don't want the criminals to learn how you do things.

 

[drop bear]

Because the throw has ZERO to do with the drill. Because they are all cops and the guy just falls down because they don't want to hurt each other doing a drill that has ZERO to do with the throw. Because it's not Not a self defense video. Because he didn't need to the guy went down.

Which is why police have to seek guys like us out to learn how to throw a guy.

Actually I think I understand scenarios.

 

[drop bear]

Real "Scenario Training" is not about "defending from a takedown".

I don't know how clearer we can be. Scenario training in a professional context has nothing to do with martial arts "techniques" against resistance. You train those on the mat/in the ring. Your argument is akin to saying that military war games are useless because we don't actually fire live rounds at each other.

This whole thing started with the idea you don't train on the mat or the ring. And then I/said something like how about people get their basics together with some resisted training first.


I can live with scenarios being different to basic martial arts training.

 

[K-man]

OMG!
:s67:

 

[ballen0351]

Which is why police have to seek guys like us out to learn how to throw a guy.

Actually I think I understand scenarios.

That's a big no on both of those statements

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Yeah, let's back it up a bit since at least a couple of posters in this thread still don't seem to get the idea of what scenario training is for and why it's necessary.

1) Fighters train to test their skills, athleticism, and willpower against other fighters.

2) In contrast, other professionals* who deal with potential violence want to control the scenario so that there is no fight. In some cases they work to manipulate social scripts so that there is no physical violence. In others they work to set up the tactical situation and force multipliers so that when violence does occur it isn't really a fight - just a beat-down in their favor. If you can arrange to start a violent encounter with surprise, positioning, weaponry, and numbers on your side, then it doesn't matter that much how tough or skilled the other guy is. He might be a world champion, but if you can a) convince him to cooperate peacefully or b) bring a dozen friends along and hit him from behind with a baseball bat then his world-class skills and toughness aren't that relevant.

* (This can be professionals on either side of the law - LEOs and corrections officers or muggers and mob leg-breakers.)

3) Scenario training is primarily* designed to prepare the trainee to either control the situation as outlined above or else keep an attacker from doing the same. (And to prepare for the aftermath.) If you get to the point where your skills in punching or throwing make a big difference, then you have probably failed in the scenario.

*(I'm aware that there are other types of scenario training - this is a simplistic overview.)

4) Training fighting skills can still be a valuable endeavor, but it's largely separate from scenario training and for a different purpose.

 

[Buka]

Maybe should have posted examples earlier. Here's a couple of links that might define what most consider info about scenario training.

http://www.jimwagnertraining.com/images/Conflict_Scenario_Training.pdf

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/video?id=9323807

 

[jks9199]

Doing something else, I came across this blog by Kasey Keckeisen on Scenario Training. Lot's of good info...

If you are going to incorporate scenario training into your repertoire (Train as Romans do) there are a couple things to consider.
You want to make the training as real as can be safely done. To do it right you will need to spend at least three hours of preparation for every hour of training. The first part of preparation is the development of the scenarios. I like to start with a few clear training objectives and then work from there. What situation would illicit the response we are training for? Situations the trainees are likely to face – train for what happens most and you can handle most of what happens.

It doesn’t make sense to have SWAT teams run women’s self defense - social violence to set up asocial violence(charm predator) drills. Nor does it make sense to have suburban moms train high risk narcotic search warrant raids. If the RBS training being sold to you has you doing commando raids and killing with your bare hands the instructor is playing of the fears of the insecure and offering fantasy fulfillment for profit. (See Marc’s blog the super bowl of violence) That’s not training that’s fantasy role playing. If you are playing make believe with a scenario that will most likely never happen whether it be commando tactics or a light saber battle with an ork, they are both equally just LARP (live action role playing or dungeons and dragons)

(emphasis added)

 

[Ian Kinder]

Hi Guys,

We created this video for this thread. Hope you find it useful: