Requirements to Advance from 3rd Dan to 4th Dan (KKW)

dancingalone

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It seems that there is a 3 year wait to go from 3rd to 4th in the KKW regulations. As I read it, the KKW only requires that Taebaek be performed along with only 1 additional poomsae. No other requirements though the local testing master/board can add more material if he wants.

Is this correct?
 

d1jinx

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That is correct. that is the KKW MINUMUM requirements. It is the Testing instructors obligation to test the individual on thier (instructors) merit and it gives them the ability to test them on ALL forms and items, or any combination there of incluing time ( 3years or longer). It is the testing instructors requirement to ensure they are ready and of the quality of that rank.

The KKW give the local instructor the freedom to test as they see fit and provides a minimum requirements only.
 

d1jinx

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many people will read and interpret that as "the only thing" that they have to do. This is incorrect but again will determine the integrity, quality and style of the instructor.
 
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dancingalone

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Thanks, d1jinx. Please allow me to ask another question. Are there any current conditions where the 3 year TIG requirement can be waived or does there have to be a special test such as the one discussed a few years ago here?
 

IcemanSK

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The only way TIG is waved, that I've heard is by being a winner of Olympic, Continental, or World Games. TIG is a solid thing, from everything I've heard.
 

d1jinx

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Thanks, d1jinx. Please allow me to ask another question. Are there any current conditions where the 3 year TIG requirement can be waived or does there have to be a special test such as the one discussed a few years ago here?

Time in grade can be waived and also a skip dan can be processed. It is fairly simple and requires the justification to written out and all applications and paperwork submitted to the KKW thru the mail. There are a number of reasons that it can be done, but each reason is depends on the individual and it is processed on an individual basis.


It does not look good or just if the same instructor consistantly applies for skip dans and reduction in time in grade. KKW keeps track of these things. They have all the records of everyone and every instructor who promotes.


The special Dan test was a good thing/idea that went south fast when people dropped the integrity and jumped ion the bandwagon to run for the free give-a-way rank.

But back to your question, yes, a TIG can be reduced and processed through your instructor for a VALID and JUSTIFIED reason that KKW sees fit. The paperwork can be sent and reviewed, and if they say no, then its no. Although they (kkw) do frown on it and try and discourage it. and most instrructions dont/wont do it either because they dont know how (like myself just recently learned) or they simply dont want to it.
 

andyjeffries

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AFAIK you don't get a reduced TIG and skip dan at the same time. To have a skip dan you must have enough TIG for all ranks. Skip dans aren't only for real extreme, extenuous circumstances. Skip dans are a way of helping people be the grade they "should" be. I am the recipient of one... I had financial hardship and some political probers when I was due my grading. Nothing extremely rare though. My grandmaster thought I was worth my skipped rank (after an extended week's evaluation including my ability, my teaching ability and how to promote others) and I was very proud to accept (and pleased when the Kukkiwon accepted it).

Now, I know most people seem against them and that's their prerogative, but given that I have personal experience of it I'll answer an questions that I can...
 

Master Dan

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As long as i can remember 40 years there has always beentime in rank between testing’s and that time is from the date of the actual KKWcert issued so if your master has delayed filing or in the case of higher rankwhere the KKW panel only meets once a year to approve higher rank if your feesand testing requirements do no reach KKW in time you could wait another year toreceive your cert. I was very poor in the 90's and tested but could not affordthe fee for a few months and it took until the next years panel met so it addeda full year to my waiting time. the time in rank is equal to present rank 1stDan 12 months 2nd Dan 24 months ect. note time does not start until the date ofthe KKW cert issued not your testing date.
Testing requirement as per our NW association the last 40years have always used the WTF format broke down as follows
9 categories with possible 100 points and 60 points minimum to pass categoriesare as follows
ATTITUTE 20
ATTENDANCE 10
BASI TECHNIQUE 10
POOM SE (PATTERN) 10
SPARRING NON CONTACT AND FULL CONTACT 10
BREAKING 10
ONSTEP SPARRING 10
SELF DEFENSE WEAPONS 10
TAE KWON DO TERMINOLOGY / HISTORY

With three categories of comments below by person running test labeled IMPROVEON THE FOLLOWING
Sparring 10 categories
Poom Se (form) 9 categories
Breaking 5 categories

Below this is signature lines of test given by with KKWmasters registration number date
Second signature line Witness (Instructor) Date
TESTINGREQUIREMENTS

POOMSE TO 1ST DAN REQUIRES 8 Taeguk and 8 Palgae plus Koryo done

After that say 4th Dan would be probably one each Palgae and Taeguk plus 4bb forms to Pyon Won

After this three additional areas

Iibo Daeryon one stepprearranged fighting and terminology Taekwondo philosophy a total of 55techniques by 1st Guep or Brown 1st with expect free style improvement by 1stDan
Daeryon – HoShin Sool Sparring & self defense
1[SUP]st[/SUP] Dan 4 on 1 fighting be able to performduties of referee 90 hours of teaching experience
2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Dan all above plus center ring referee
Daeryon – HoShin Sool continued

3[SUP]rd[/SUP] Dan Able to run tournament
4[SUP]th[/SUP] Dan Write thesis about Taekwondotechniques

THIRD CATEGORIEOF TESTING Kauk Pa Sul ( Breaking)

1[SUP]st[/SUP] Dan Men total of 10 full board 2 at a timeall techniques hands and feet
2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Dan all above with demonstrated Breathingcontrol/break
3[SUP]rd[/SUP] Dan all above with Breaking exhibition
4[SUP]th[/SUP] Dan all above Power Breaking

 

Master Dan

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There is nothing to replace TIG or TIR as related to skip dan and the justifications for skip dan are very specific as spelled out in the KKW text book of regulations. If you have a recomendation from the President of your country, documented other extenuating circumstances that precluded you from testing and you still need the recomendation by higher rank for promotion you then can apply. I have heard of people who had considerable funds to travel to Korea direct and rumors that officials were paid considerable funds to approve skip dans but that was verbal an no names I would want to repeat. It was stated that this possible coruption was one of the reasons for the changing of the KKW leadership by the Korean government on another forum I have not seen any direct proof of that? My GGM who was highly respected by KKW would not even consider asking for any skip dan's with out TIG and I would like to add you are only allowed one skip dan in your life time.
 

Master Dan

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Just curious but you seem to be concerned with time in rank and skip dan how old are you and are you in a rush or intend on having your own dojang and need to be able to promote your own students?
 
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dancingalone

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Just curious but you seem to be concerned with time in rank and skip dan how old are you and are you in a rush or intend on having your own dojang and need to be able to promote your own students?

I'm old enough to be a US president yet nowhere near old enough to collect Social Security. :)

I purchased a dojang last year from a KKW master and so I am gradually learning and adjusting to the technical and business knowledge needed to run a taekwondo dojang teaching the KKW curriculum. Naturally as part of the business aspect I want to reach the rank of 4th dan asap so I can process paperwork for my own students without having to go through my TKD master. It is what it is. Prior to last year, I did not overly care about such things as martial rank. I imagine after I attain 4th dan in taekwondo, my level of interest in promotion will recede.
 

d1jinx

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I'm old enough to be a US president yet nowhere near old enough to collect Social Security. :)

I purchased a dojang last year from a KKW master and so I am gradually learning and adjusting to the technical and business knowledge needed to run a taekwondo dojang teaching the KKW curriculum. Naturally as part of the business aspect I want to reach the rank of 4th dan asap so I can process paperwork for my own students without having to go through my TKD master. It is what it is. Prior to last year, I did not overly care about such things as martial rank. I imagine after I attain 4th dan in taekwondo, my level of interest in promotion will recede.

not everything you have read here is true. there are a number of reputable people here who process thier own paperwork and can asist you in answering questions. Like anything, things can be done on a individual basis.

specifically, TIG. example. an individual is a 3rd dan TKD whaterever org. ATA/ITF/local school whatever, and has been training for 15 years. 1 day she got her 1st dan KKW. a year later she got promoted to 3rd KKW. Technically she did not have the full 3 years required ( 1 from 1st to second, 2 from 2nd to third) as a 1st dan to skip to 3rd, per somes thoughts/statements. The individuals performance, prior 15 years and circumstances were all spelled out and submitted to the KKW for review. Hers went through. Now the next guy with a similiar situation might not. Its up to KKW. You have to clearly explain the situation.

Next, there are some peole who are Skip dan straight to 2nd. How is this posible if they do not have Time in grade, Because they were never issued a 1st dan to start it.

Also I am referring to the lower BB ranks, 4th and below. the higher it is, the harder it is and more likely NOT to happen. But possible.

Skip dans are not hard, but NEED TO BE justified.
 

d1jinx

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... I want to reach the rank of 4th dan asap so I can process paperwork for my own students without having to go through my TKD master. It is what it is. Prior to last year, I did not overly care about such things as martial rank. I imagine after I attain 4th dan in taekwondo, my level of interest in promotion will recede.

there are ORGs here in the US who can help with that (AT COST).

and when you do get your 4th, you will find you need 5th. it will seem to stop then. the need that is.
 
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dancingalone

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n Like anything, things can be done on a individual basis...

Thank you sir, Everything you've written confirms what I've heard from my master.

It sounds like he's jumping through a few hurdles already to get me a 3rd dan, whether through the dan assimilation process or some other way. It sounds like it would be some more work (skip dan?) to try to get me a shortened 4th degree then.
 

d1jinx

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Thank you sir, Everything you've written confirms what I've heard from my master.

It sounds like he's jumping through a few hurdles already to get me a 3rd dan, whether through the dan assimilation process or some other way. It sounds like it would be some more work (skip dan?) to try to get me a shortened 4th degree then.

KKW will only do it once. whether its a skip or reduced time you only get 1 time EVER.
 
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dancingalone

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KKW will only do it once. whether its a skip or reduced time you only get 1 time EVER.

My master is not the type of person who talks a lot about a subject until all the details are secured. Am I correct in guessing that he will try to get me a dan assimilation 3rd dan with the open possibility of getting a shortened TIG 4th dan if he has said something to the effect of 'third dan no problem, a little more work with fourth'?
 

SahBumNimRush

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Out of curiosity, what sort of circumstances justify a "skip Dan"? How common are they?

I'm curious about this too. Are skip dans used to bring non-KKW dans who affiliate with the KKW up to rank? i.e. 5th dan "traditional tkd" who affiliates with KKW skip tested to 5th dan KKW (assuming all TIG and curriculum are up to KKW standards)?
 

chrispillertkd

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It seems that there is a 3 year wait to go from 3rd to 4th in the KKW regulations. As I read it, the KKW only requires that Taebaek be performed along with only 1 additional poomsae. No other requirements though the local testing master/board can add more material if he wants.

Is this correct?

I guess I'm late to the party on this thread but I was wondering why you don't just ask your instructor about the requirements for 4th dan? Since he's the one who is going to be testing you, I assume, he'd be the one to ask.

Also, if you don't have a KKW 3rd dan yet why ask about a 4th dan? Or are you going to test/certificate exchange a 3rd dan and then test for 4th in short order?

Pax,

Chris
 
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dancingalone

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I guess I'm late to the party on this thread but I was wondering why you don't just ask your instructor about the requirements for 4th dan? Since he's the one who is going to be testing you, I assume, he'd be the one to ask.

Chris, I'm using the board to flesh out and verify information I already have.

Also, if you don't have a KKW 3rd dan yet why ask about a 4th dan? Or are you going to test/certificate exchange a 3rd dan and then test for 4th in short order?

Pax,

Chris

I've just been awarded a house 3rd dan and am told that in a few weeks I'll be in the KKW database with that same rank, So, I'm now looking to get my 4th, hopefully in an expedient fashion but if not, I suppose I'll readjust my internal clock.

I do have the TIG requirements and more by KKW guidelines to have a 4th already, but I hadn't needed to advance in TKD until last year so I never pursued it. Now I wish I had.
 
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