Put off by the yelling?

[Aiki Lee]

Moreover, I still don't really understand it. I'm sure there is a good reason why it is used, but coming from a logical standpoint, and a Wing-Chun perspective, the following things kind of baffle me:

1. When do you use it? You obviously can't kiai with every strike. And when you do, you've just expelled all (or a very large portion) of the air in your lungs, requiring you to breath in immediately after to recover your breath.

I know nearly nothing about WC but I understand kiai. And You could kiai with every strike depending on how you are striking and what type of kiai you are using. Kiai is more than yelling to startle someone and just as a means of breath control. Different kiai serve different functions.

2. This one is really big. I wouldn't ever want to open my mouth in the middle of a fight if I don't have to. It seems the jaw and teeth would be very susceptible to damage the moment you do; and that moment which you commit yourself to a strike is also the moment that you are most likely to be struck yourself.

Not if you kiai properly. The situation you are describing is the kiai in which you would yell to expel your breath, give a psychological boost to yourself and hopefully startle or freeze someone correct? This kiai needs to be done in between the rhythms of the opponent's movements. That's how you prevent him from hitting you (in addition to using proper distance and angling). You freeze him for a fraction of a second by feinting with kiai between the end of one attack and the beginning of his next one.

3. I don't know what's going to happen. I don't actually know when or if a strike will connect until the moment it does, and if I have to think about yelling at that point, I've already missed my opportunity. Moreover, if I yell any sooner, I'm either giving myself away, or making myself look really funny if my attack is interrupted!

You don't think about kiai, you just do it. Just like you don't think about hitting the breaks when the light goes red; you just do it. You can use kiai as a feint or as a means to psychologically boost yourself into action. It ends the process of conscious thought, kiai is all about unifying your emotions with your actions. It's pure focus, there is no elaborate thought process involved.

Most likely, I simply don't understand the purpose of Kiai, though. Is it just for the mindset when executing the kata, and not for practical application, or are there other considerations that I'm failing to realize?!

Most people don't understand kiai, because most people think it is for show or to "scare" the opponent. It's not. Different kiai have different applications. Here are a few:

-Kiai can alter your breathing patterns. If you are overly anxious in a fight a long, low kiai can stabilize your emotions and bring them under control. If you are too calm, short quick kiai can build enough anxiety to force you to move. Both the breathing pattern and the sound emitted have reacts in both you and another person.

-Sounds that have a short "A" sound like "Stop" or "Ha!" have a solidifying effect on the person using kiai. It engages the lower stomach muscles and engages the core of the body increasing the ability to move powerfully because the kiai makes one aware of his/her lower muscle groups. The effect it has on an opponent is one exerting your will on him and should be done when needing to engage the lower muscles for the purpose of proper execution of a technique.

-Sounds with a long "O" sound like "Toh" or "Oh!" also tighten the lower muscles and diaphragm but the tightening lasts longer making it an effective sound and breathing pattern for receiving attack. It has a solidifying effect without leaving one feeling tense.

There's more but I have to go so I don't have time to go into the others.

I'm imagining something along the lines of a machine gun.

"A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A"

Actually I would suggest a long continuous "Eeiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!".

 

[aaradia]

I think anyone using the yelling as a reason not to join is just not interested overall and looking for reasons/ excuses. I doubt anyone otherwise compelled to join would let that stop them.

BTW, in CLF for kicks we yell "dik" I remember my first instructor explaining that it didn't mean the same thing in Chinese that it does in english. It did take a little getting used to yelling that one word specifically.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

To me, Kiai (exhale) means "commitment". It can be helpful when you lift heavy weight. As far as striking, I'm not sure it's needed.

 

[skribs]

I've been told the kiyap has the following benefits:
*Helps you remember to breathe (as said before "snake noises" can do this, but it's just one benefit)
*In a confrontation, not only may it scare your attacker off, but it may also alert others that there is an altercation going on. (Similar to shouting "HELP" or "FIRE"). This means that the attacker may be scared off because you sound like you know martial arts and/or because of the extra attention your kiyap garners.

In my classes, some white belts have to be reminded to Kiyap (they also tend to be shy and hesitant to do techniques). Some higher belts do a halfway kiyap that's more of a whine than a shout (and they get flak for it). However, we kiyap so much that when we start forms, people tend to kiyap at the wrong points, just because they're so used to it. (Just like after I've been drilling kick/punch combos and I'm supposed to just do the kick in class I'll automatically throw a punch after).

However, I can understand the problem for outsiders. Watching a class probably reminds the viewer of bad Wire Fu movies where a class of martial artists is practicing in a temple, the same class that usually gets beaten up by the protagonist in a rather embarrassing fashion (both for the defeated baddies and for the audience that cringes every time the wirework becomes obvious). I actually had someone tell me recently they embarrassed their ex at a class, because every time the class kiyapped, she would laugh uncontrollably. It probably comes across as very camp to an outsider.

 

[geezer]

I still don't really understand it. I'm sure there is a good reason why it is used, but coming from a logical standpoint, and a Wing-Chun perspective...

...I'm imagining something along the lines of a machine gun. "A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A"

Argus, that's hillarious. And exactly how it would sound if you tried to kiai when unloading a fast flurry of chain punches! Then you'd pass out from hyperventilating. There's a reason why we don't kiai in WC/WT/VT.

On the other hand, in many arts, a sudden, short expulsion of breath coordinated with your strikes is definitely helpful. Look how boxers expel air when they strike. We do the same thing in the Eskrima I practice. There is a direct physiological benefit. And though not traditional, that kind of breathing can be used in WC for a final, heavy shot at the end of a flurry.

On the other hand I suspect that the "yelling" aspect of kiai/kihap has a more psychological effect both on you and your opponent.

 

[Balrog]

I think more often than not, you'll see people who're nervous or afraid of doing something. These fears could range from being nervous in general or feeling embarrassed. Some people are just normally quiet, so the idea of doing a loud kiai can be quiet frustrating. I'm sure with time, those people will come out of their shell.

They do. I explain to them that the voice is a weapon. The bad guy does NOT want people noticing what he is doing. If you are kihaping as well as yelling either FIRE! or a loud string of obscenities, it will attract attention and the bad guy will run from witnesses like Dracula from a garlic pizza.

 

[Rokuta]

Can anyone suggest a strategy to convince a female student to use the Kiai? She recently joined our ninpo class and occasionally sensei asks me to work with her on fundamentals. She is doing very well with the physical aspect, but feels terribly selfconscious yelling. And since I'm only a yellow belt myself I don't have much lore to go by. Any ideas?

 

[DennisBreene]

Can anyone suggest a strategy to convince a female student to use the Kiai? She recently joined our ninpo class and occasionally sensei asks me to work with her on fundamentals. She is doing very well with the physical aspect, but feels terribly selfconscious yelling. And since I'm only a yellow belt myself I don't have much lore to go by. Any ideas?

Try practice yelling with her so that she feels less isolated. It may also help to have her use a word initially, such as "hey".

 

[Carol]

Skip the lore and work on the physiology. If she doesn't want to yell, don't force her. Have her exhale instead.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[wingchun100]

I have never really felt embarassed about any of it. When summertime comes around, sometimes we will do class outside. Our school is located on a main street in albany. What was weird is I remember one of the most outgoing guys in class asking Sifu if we could go inside because people going by were staring at us and he was self-conscious.

The way I see it, the immature will make fun of you...but those who are open-minded will ask what you are doing. Or they will be neither of those; they could be indifferent and go by without a word!

 

[RTKDCMB]

Can anyone suggest a strategy to convince a female student to use the Kiai? She recently joined our ninpo class and occasionally sensei asks me to work with her on fundamentals. She is doing very well with the physical aspect, but feels terribly selfconscious yelling. And since I'm only a yellow belt myself I don't have much lore to go by. Any ideas?

Sometimes new students will be a bit self conscious about yelling in front of people and feel a bit silly at first, it's just normal. Sometimes they subconsciously feel they don't want to stand out and draw attention to themselves by making a loud noise. You can just point out that everybody in class is shouting so she will not be out of place by doing it too and that it is just another thing that will get better with practice.

 

[MartialMellow]

I agree with the above. I have just been at it a few months. I only yell on occasion when going from a ready stance to horse stance.