Put off by the yelling?

[kodora81]

Sorry if this seems like a silly thread, but I had to ask about something I've noticed when encouraging others to join MA. Naturally I've tried to encourage loved ones to give MA a chance, and to come down to my dojo and see what they think. And I've had more than one person tell me that they think karate "looks cool", and they'd love to give it a shot, but they won't because they don't want to "yell" while doing the moves. I guess they think it's weird, or embarrassing or something, I'm not entirely sure.

I dunno, it's not something that particularly made me self-conscious when I first started out. I figure that everyone else in the room is doing the exact same thing, so what's the problem? Granted, one of these people is my 9-year old niece, and I know that can be a very self-conscious age. I tried to explain to her why we "yell" in class and make "snake noises" (breathing), in the hopes that she'll still want to join. She's a super kid, but I think that a bit of discipline and confidence would do a world of wonders for her.

Anyone else self conscious about anything in particular when they first started?

 

[MJS]

Sorry if this seems like a silly thread, but I had to ask about something I've noticed when encouraging others to join MA. Naturally I've tried to encourage loved ones to give MA a chance, and to come down to my dojo and see what they think. And I've had more than one person tell me that they think karate "looks cool", and they'd love to give it a shot, but they won't because they don't want to "yell" while doing the moves. I guess they think it's weird, or embarrassing or something, I'm not entirely sure.

I dunno, it's not something that particularly made me self-conscious when I first started out. I figure that everyone else in the room is doing the exact same thing, so what's the problem? Granted, one of these people is my 9-year old niece, and I know that can be a very self-conscious age. I tried to explain to her why we "yell" in class and make "snake noises" (breathing), in the hopes that she'll still want to join. She's a super kid, but I think that a bit of discipline and confidence would do a world of wonders for her.

Anyone else self conscious about anything in particular when they first started?

I think more often than not, you'll see people who're nervous or afraid of doing something. These fears could range from being nervous in general or feeling embarrassed. Some people are just normally quiet, so the idea of doing a loud kiai can be quiet frustrating. I'm sure with time, those people will come out of their shell.

 

[jks9199]

Most people are self conscious and a little embarrassed when they start martial arts. The uniforms, feeling awkward and uncoordinated, and yes, the noises. It's normal, and to be expected. They're starting something new...

It can help to let them know that, used properly, the yells are a natural outcome, kind of like grunting when you lift something heavy. In other cases, they're to help you move correctly and synchronize your motions, sort of like a marching cadence or dancing to music.

 

[oftheherd1]

I think MJS is correct, but I think it just needs to be explained that it isn't just yelling, but is a Kiai (or whatever your style calls it), and the reason is to enhance and focus gi. Then they also need to be told that they won't likely see the benefits of gi for a quite a while, and of course, without the kiai, they will never reap any benefits.

If that doesn't work, either they just need to mature, or maybe are looking for excuses (how many kids watch Kung Fu Panda or The Ninja Rangers and walk around kiai-ing just to sound cool?)

 

[kodora81]

Yes, I can definitely empathize with feeling a bit awkward and embarrassed starting out in martial arts - it's a very different experience than what most people are used to. I just found it curious that the kiai was something in particular that was pointed out by some of the women I've spoken to. Can it be said that us women generally don't like undo attention being brought to ourselves? That we're naturally reluctant to show outward aggression by yelling/making noise?

 

[Langenschwert]

I personally find a good kiai very cathartic. Sometimes I do my batto silently, and it's not nearly as much fun as doing it while yelling.

-Mark

 

[Tez3]

Yes, I can definitely empathize with feeling a bit awkward and embarrassed starting out in martial arts - it's a very different experience than what most people are used to. I just found it curious that the kiai was something in particular that was pointed out by some of the women I've spoken to. Can it be said that us women generally don't like undo attention being brought to ourselves? That we're naturally reluctant to show outward aggression by yelling/making noise?

That's a generalistion about women, I've never had any trouble get female white belts 'yelling'. As oftheherd pointed out when you teach the reasons for it beginners understand and will do it. I don't think it has anything to do with aggression nor wanting attention, 'us' women can be very aggressive and very attention seeking and there's nowt wrong with that!.

 

[ballen0351]

I don't do it. I'll do it when grading where its supposed to be in the Kara but while in class its just not my thing not that I'm embarrassed because nobody would notice anyway since everyone doing it I just don't bother.

 

[Aiseant]

I don't know at which point kihap (yelling in tkd) because natural to me and not something I had to actually think to do it

Some people seem almost ashamed of making noise and not always women ... Sometimes I trained with mute guys, and it feels weird for me ^^

I noticed that children would always do it, if you remind them. Mostly because it's part of the rule and the exercise, and they follow what we ask
At some point, they became aware or something, ashamed and stop. Beginner adults are also like that.
To break that, I usually explain a lot about energy and what kihap can bring to you and how it helps during efforts. Not efficient at the first time, but keep saying and saying and eventually, they'll remember. Making breathing exercise, and kihap altogether. I also try to break the shame they seem to have and explain that I don't care the sound they're making, that your yelling is personal and is yours. Im greatly helped by the fact that we have very good fighters making real strange noise when they're yelling and it breaks the ice

 

[kodora81]

That's a generalistion about women, I've never had any trouble get female white belts 'yelling'. As oftheherd pointed out when you teach the reasons for it beginners understand and will do it. I don't think it has anything to do with aggression nor wanting attention, 'us' women can be very aggressive and very attention seeking and there's nowt wrong with that!.

Forgiveness Tez, I wasn't trying to generalize in a negative way, I was just following a thread of thought for friendly discussion. Of course there's nothing wrong with women showing aggression or attracting attention - there's plenty of examples in my dojo of the exact opposite (including me).

I guess what I was getting at was that (many, not all) women aren't used to displaying aggression, and it can take some encouragement to 'crack that shell'. Just my personal observations.

 

[Tez3]

Forgiveness Tez, I wasn't trying to generalize in a negative way, I was just following a thread of thought for friendly discussion. Of course there's nothing wrong with women showing aggression or attracting attention - there's plenty of examples in my dojo of the exact opposite (including me).

I guess what I was getting at was that (many, not all) women aren't used to displaying aggression, and it can take some encouragement to 'crack that shell'. Just my personal observations.

I'm afraid "us women" is a bit of a trigger point for me, it always sounds like a sort of sexism.
The thing about kiai/kihaps is that they need to be taught just as much as learning to kick/punch etc. The 'noise' isn't at all about aggression so no one should have problems from that point of view.

 

[kodora81]

I'm afraid "us women" is a bit of a trigger point for me, it always sounds like a sort of sexism.
The thing about kiai/kihaps is that they need to be taught just as much as learning to kick/punch etc. The 'noise' isn't at all about aggression so no one should have problems from that point of view.

No worries. I mainly used that term so that people wouldn't jump all over me thinking I was a man commenting on women (and therefore sounding sexist!)

 

[Mauthos]

I find a Kiyap, Kiai an odd thing, I understand its purpose and quite comfortably use it in my forms. Outside of that I have never seen the point.

It was initially explained to me that the use of shouting when striking could increase the power of my shot, expelling air and therefore generating additional force behind the kick or punch. Having trained in kick boxing for many years I found that just ensuring I breath out sharply when delivering a kick or punch gives me the same result.

I have also had it explained that the point of a kiyap is to intimidate/scare a potential attacker, again I see the usefulness of this initially, but once you are 'in' the fight, I don't feel that shouting at your opponent again and again is going to have the same impact, in fact I think it will ultimately lessen the effect.

Then I have seen the worse use of a kiyap, shouting to indicate that your technique has landed effectively to ensure the referee knows you have hit your target in competition. This I really dislike as I have seen several exponents of different martial arts all do this and literally scream their kiyap so loudly that they tense their entire upper bodies whilst normally pulling their fists down to their waists, mouth stretched wide. This, in my opinion, is a terrible use of the kiyap, if the referee disagrees with you, thinking that your technique did not hit or was not clean you have dropped your guard, slowed your movement down due to unnecessary tensing and more than likely left yourself open to an immediate counter attack. And if you are one of those that does your kiyap straining your mouth to its extremes, all it takes is one good shot to the chin and you are looking at a potential KO and/or a broken jaw (28psi people! (if hitting accurately and catching the nerve in the jaw, otherwise ~400 will do it, which again is not very much)). In my opinion a bad use of a kiyap and one that can instil bad habits with regard to point stop fighting.

I personally will hardly kiyap, only in my forms (and then again not in my Kenpo forms as it is not called for), I have a fairly good reputation as a more than capable fighter and although I don't shout every time I think I am going to land a particularly good shot I always breath out (more to ensure adequate clean oxygen getting back into my system when using a gum shield) and people do seem to notice this sharp exhalation of breath, but ultimately I do not personally see the necessity for continual use of a kiyap.

 

[Aiseant]

This is indeed a very wrong use of kihap ... in fact, yelling because you've won, or because you want people to think you have, is not kihap ... well, it's just yelling

Yell is also good for your own mind and goes beyond adding force in your kicks or punches: it has a very interesting effect on your breathing capability and muscular delay, for instance. Of course, this is not obvious at the first glance, and isn't really notable until you reach your limits in effort, for my own case anyway.




edit : oh .... by the way, I'm adding myself in the cause : 'us' women don't have trouble yelling okay ... I'm stopping to feed the troll, sorry

 

[Tez3]

I've seen the kiai made by competitors hoping to fool the judges into thinking there's a hit but most times it fools nobody lol. Most touch style comps I've been to actually have four judges sat around the mats so it's hard to fool all of them plus the ref. I think they should be doing full contact and then they'd know for sure whether it's a hit but that's just me :ultracool

 

[Xue Sheng]

Not much yelling or noises in Internal Chinese Marital Arts and I hav enot seen much in Aikido either

 

[Aiseant]

Not much yelling or noises in Internal Chinese Marital Arts and I hav enot seen much in Aikido either

Yep, totally right : aikido was totally silent where I tried, it's very weird when you're used to make all the sound of the world ^^ I felt really intimidated : no kihap, no noise when you fall

 

[DennisBreene]

Sorry if this seems like a silly thread, but I had to ask about something I've noticed when encouraging others to join MA. Naturally I've tried to encourage loved ones to give MA a chance, and to come down to my dojo and see what they think. And I've had more than one person tell me that they think karate "looks cool", and they'd love to give it a shot, but they won't because they don't want to "yell" while doing the moves. I guess they think it's weird, or embarrassing or something, I'm not entirely sure.

I dunno, it's not something that particularly made me self-conscious when I first started out. I figure that everyone else in the room is doing the exact same thing, so what's the problem? Granted, one of these people is my 9-year old niece, and I know that can be a very self-conscious age. I tried to explain to her why we "yell" in class and make "snake noises" (breathing), in the hopes that she'll still want to join. She's a super kid, but I think that a bit of discipline and confidence would do a world of wonders for her.

Anyone else self conscious about anything in particular when they first started?

An excellent point in the first entry is that the perception of the kiai tends to inhibit some people from attempting MA. This saddens me. I believe that the kiai has benefit and I certainly would not advocate limiting its use for public relations reasons. It might be helpful to point out mainstream sports that have incorporated similar grunts or yells. Professional tennis comes to mind for me. The Williams sisters have practically made it mainstream.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Yep, totally right : aikido was totally silent where I tried, it's very weird when you're used to make all the sound of the world ^^ I felt really intimidated : no kihap, no noise when you fall

Just the calming sound of bodies hitting the mat

 

[Danny T]

Not much yelling or noises in Internal Chinese Marital Arts and I hav enot seen much in Aikido either

Yeap. No yelling or noises in Wing Chun, just breathe naturally. Heavy exhaling breaths in Boxing and Muay Thai but no yelling. Kali, Silat, Tai Chi, and JKD are all systems I've train and we didn't have much as to yelling in any of them.