Put off by the yelling?

Tez3

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Yeap. No yelling or noises in Wing Chun, just breathe naturally. Heavy exhaling breaths in Boxing and Muay Thai but no yelling. Kali, Silat, Tai Chi, and JKD are all systems I've train and we didn't have much as to yelling in any of them.

I think you should do what your style teaches, you don't start changing things around because you don't like or understand one piece of what you are being taught. Not doing kiais in karate would be as bad as doing them in Wing Chun.
 

bookworm_cn317

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Kihapping was weird when I first started. It's still kinda weird for me--I still have to be reminded(sometimes.) I am better at actually kihaping.
 

Danny T

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I think you should do what your style teaches, you don't start changing things around because you don't like or understand one piece of what you are being taught. Not doing kiais in karate would be as bad as doing them in Wing Chun.
Agreed. When in Rome do as Romans do. However of the many martial systems I have been exposed to there are more without yelling than there is. I did do some Gojo Ryu and some Shotokan 30 years ago and though some performed yells at certain parts the men who were the instructors at the time felt a strong exhalation sufficed and that understanding what the movements could be used for were more important that being able to yell loudly.
 

CK1980

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The various schools I attended throughout the years always had their own ideas of where a "yell" should be... Probably the best way it was explained to me was that depending on what you were doing, there were certain ways you needed to breathe. These breaths would generate their own sound and that without those breaths, your strike or block would not be nearly as effective and you just may find yourself holding your breath!

I actually watched a guy get very close to passing out because he didn't want to "sst" when he punched. And for me personally, I found out that the heavy exhale that sounded like an odd scream when kicking (along with the fundamentals of a kick) helped me deliver a powerful strike and brace for the impact of that strike.

Yeah, it sounds weird. Yeah, it sounds funny. But there is a point and a purpose... If your friends are opposed to "yelling" take a moment to show them in a practical way the difference between executing a maneuver without it and then with it. There should be a noticeable difference in the outcome... It might help them understand it a little better :)
 

lavender

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Another thing: Along with a good yell, the abdominals tighten. If you get hit wrong (or right, haha) it can knock the breath out of you. If you are ready to tighten your abs like with a good yell, when you get hit like that, it won't effect you as much and you recover faster. That's kind of how it was explained to me.... The yelling and hissing is partly training, in case you get hit like that in sparring.

Can you imagine people without enough confidence to try to yell having enough confidence to defend themselves?
 

RTKDCMB

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A lot of people who walk through the doors of the training hall are self conscious and a bit shy. It is perfectly natural for someone going into a new situation and not want to stand out by making a loud noise such as a kiap. You just have to explain to them what are the reasons for all of the yelling. You can say to them that they would stand out if they did not yell and that during training it is a good opportunity yell and let off some steam. Where else can you yell at the top of your lungs without getting into trouble with your parents or disturbing the neighbors. If they do not kiap loud at first just explain that it is something that gets better with practice. The kiap should be short, sharp, loud and scary and come from deep within. The kiap serves to tension the body to protect from attack whilst striking and to distract your opponent. If you go up to a complete stranger and suddenly shout at them as loud as you can with a kiap and they will jump (be startled) and that small moment of hesitation gives you a split second longer to get your strike in (to your opponent not the complete stranger you yelled at). The kiap can attract attention when you are getting attacked, if a member of the public walks past and hears the kiap they may investigate and try to help or be witnesses (not very likely). It is also has a psychological effect on increasing the power in striking (its hard to not put in a lot of effort when you are giving a loud kiap). It's something new students will get used to eventually just encourage them and give it time.
 

Cyriacus

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Another thing: Along with a good yell, the abdominals tighten. If you get hit wrong (or right, haha) it can knock the breath out of you. If you are ready to tighten your abs like with a good yell, when you get hit like that, it won't effect you as much and you recover faster. That's kind of how it was explained to me.... The yelling and hissing is partly training, in case you get hit like that in sparring.

Can you imagine people without enough confidence to try to yell having enough confidence to defend themselves?

Well, to be fair, you *can* tense up your abdominal muscles without yelling. And alot of people dont lack confidence - Theyre socially conditioned to not be loud and noisy. Which makes it 'uncomfortable' for them to *be* loud and noisy.
 

Xue Sheng

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Can you imagine people without enough confidence to try to yell having enough confidence to defend themselves?

A Chinese Martial Art Point of View

Can you imagine someone only being able to handle a hit when they yell..... that means I attack that person again immiediatly after they yell...when they inhale.... and they will have to inhale

Yelling and kia and all that has its place and is basic training for many arts....not the ones I train... but many.... just because someone does not or cannot yell has nothing to do with confidence
 

RTKDCMB

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A Chinese Martial Art Point of View

Can you imagine someone only being able to handle a hit when they yell..... that means I attack that person again immiediatly after they yell...when they inhale.... and they will have to inhale

Yelling and kia and all that has its place and is basic training for many arts....not the ones I train... but many.... just because someone does not or cannot yell has nothing to do with confidence

The tightening of the abdominals is just a secondary consequence of the kiap which should also be happening when you exhale during a strike. The exhale, like the kiap, is a short sharp release of air (like a fart but from the other end). It's mainly for a distraction and to increase the amount of effort that is put into a strike (the same reason tennis players grunt when they hit the ball and weight lifters sometimes yell when lifting weights). If you can get a strike in when your opponent whilst they are inhaling you will do a lot more damage but it would be difficult get the timing right in the heat of battle.
 

Xue Sheng

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The tightening of the abdominals is just a secondary consequence of the kiap which should also be happening when you exhale during a strike. The exhale, like the kiap, is a short sharp release of air (like a fart but from the other end). It's mainly for a distraction and to increase the amount of effort that is put into a strike (the same reason tennis players grunt when they hit the ball and weight lifters sometimes yell when lifting weights). If you can get a strike in when your opponent whilst they are inhaling you will do a lot more damage but it would be difficult get the timing right in the heat of battle.

Again a CMA POV

As my Xingyiquan sifu said, if you can only hit when you exhale.... I will hit you right after you exhale because you cannot hit me until you inhale and then exhale.

I know what a kiap is for and can do (trained Japanese MA and Korean before) and I am not saying it is wrong, I am saying it is not the only way and the presence or lack of kiap does not have anything to do with confidence.
 

RTKDCMB

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, I am saying it is not the only way and the presence or lack of kiap does not have anything to do with confidence.

I never suggested it did just that some beginning students don't do it at first because they are shy, self conscious and don't want to feel silly (a new student said that to me once or twice) making loud noises.
 

granfire

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Well, to be fair, you *can* tense up your abdominal muscles without yelling. And alot of people dont lack confidence - Theyre socially conditioned to not be loud and noisy. Which makes it 'uncomfortable' for them to *be* loud and noisy.

[yt]d4ezkrL8L-0 [/yt]

But sadly not everybody can pull that off.

the yell is a tool.
you can't fight when you don't breath.
sound is optional though, but can have a secondary purpose....that deep down from your stomach rumbling, it can be scary....much more than any punch you can throw at times....
 

Cyriacus

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[yt]d4ezkrL8L-0 [/yt]
sound is optional though, but can have a secondary purpose....that deep down from your stomach rumbling, it can be scary....much more than any punch you can throw at times....

Unless youre me, in which case its an offer to up the level of intensity. I dont doubt thered be people whod interpret it the same way in a less favorable setting.
Me? Id prefer it if what i was doing where what was effective, rather than relying on noise to scare someone, whilst risking provoking stronger actions.
 

granfire

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Unless youre me, in which case its an offer to up the level of intensity. I dont doubt thered be people whod interpret it the same way in a less favorable setting.
Me? Id prefer it if what i was doing where what was effective, rather than relying on noise to scare someone, whilst risking provoking stronger actions.

all things depend on context....a word uttered in calm can be more menacing than the biggest roar....

however, it is only one thing the Kihap does for you....
 
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kodora81

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I never suggested it did just that some beginning students don't do it at first because they are shy, self conscious and don't want to feel silly (a new student said that to me once or twice) making loud noises.

I think for most people this is what it comes down to. For someone unfamiliar with a dojo setting (and are used to more...er, *conventional* sports), it must be strange to hear all that noise coming from everyone. I think that time and familiarity go a long way to helping students get over their self-consciousness in that regard. Now when I go to my dojo it's the most natural thing in the world. Sweaty lobby with condensation on the front window...people walking in from the sidewalk holding bo staffs...blood-curdling yells that can be heard all the way from the street front......yep!

:bangahead:
 

K-man

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It would be interesting to have a hands up of those who 'kiai' but don't believe in 'ki'. :asian:
 

Hapkidoguy

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Sometimes I yell. Sometimes I don't . It sometimes seems pointless and other times seems right. i do think proper breathing is the important part. If someone can control that they dont need to yell. Just a thought.
 

Instructor

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Hapkidoguy I just wanted to welcome you to Martial Talk! If you haven't yet you should do an intro thread.
 

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