Planning for a Knife attack

[NinjaChristian]

What is a good concealable weapon to counter a knife attack? I am considering buying a baton of some sort, interested in the extendable. Would a baton do well against a knife? I could also carry a knife, which would be less conspicuous since where I live most people carry knives simply out of necessity (a lot of farms).

 

[NinjaChristian]

I don't tend to go anywhere that I will likely end up being attacked by someone with a knife, but why not be prepared?

 

[jks9199]

What is a good concealable weapon to counter a knife attack? I am considering buying a baton of some sort, interested in the extendable. Would a baton do well against a knife? I could also carry a knife, which would be less conspicuous since where I live most people carry knives simply out of necessity (a lot of farms).

A gun.

A baton, in the right and properly trained hands, can be used effectively against a knife -- but there's a lot in those qualifications. Feel free to plug "knife" in for baton, and it'll be equally true.

Here's the reality: if someone is attacking you with a knife and halfway capable, the first clue you'll have is when you're bleeding. Outside of movies, you don't have someone draw and present their weapon, stating "You killed my father, prepare to die." You MAY have a weapon brandished in a robbery attempt -- but even then, it's often implied rather than shown.

 

[Blindside]

What is a good concealable weapon to counter a knife attack? I am considering buying a baton of some sort, interested in the extendable. Would a baton do well against a knife? I could also carry a knife, which would be less conspicuous since where I live most people carry knives simply out of necessity (a lot of farms).

Concealable? A pistol.

I spend a stupid amount of time on knife and stick stuff and I still wouldn't preferentially go for a knife. I carry a knife all the time but more as a tool that a SD weapon. If I was seriously concerned that I was actually going to run into a guy with bad intentions and a knife I would be regularly carrying my Glock. A collapsible baton is just as much of a PITA to carry as my gun is, so I can't see why I would pack that around.

 

[Dirty Dog]

A gun.

A baton, in the right and properly trained hands, can be used effectively against a knife -- but there's a lot in those qualifications. Feel free to plug "knife" in for baton, and it'll be equally true.

Here's the reality: if someone is attacking you with a knife and halfway capable, the first clue you'll have is when you're bleeding. Outside of movies, you don't have someone draw and present their weapon, stating "You killed my father, prepare to die." You MAY have a weapon brandished in a robbery attempt -- but even then, it's often implied rather than shown.

This. Read it again. One more time...

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

To be honest, no weapon will really help you, for the reason that JKS said. Even if you do manage to notice in time, the chances are that you won't have time to get your weapon. And if someone's threatening you with a knife and see you going for your weapon, they aren't gonna just wait and let you pull it out.

 

[crazydiamond]

Assuming, as others mentioned you could get it out and ready in time -and you have been train in it - you could do okay against a knife with a baton

However depending on were you live you may have to check the legalities of a baton. I was very surprised in my state in the USA that I could farily easily get a concealed gun permit, but in no way shape or form is their a permit for a extendable baton, they are illegal. Guess we need a national baton association. Knife laws are a bit more tricky - and a 3 inch karambit is legal to carry. So I carry one of those.

 

[NinjaChristian]

A gun.

I'm sorry, I meant to write it in my post, but I meant besides guns.

Here's the reality: if someone is attacking you with a knife and halfway capable, the first clue you'll have is when you're bleeding. Outside of movies, you don't have someone draw and present their weapon, stating "You killed my father, prepare to die." You MAY have a weapon brandished in a robbery attempt -- but even then, it's often implied rather than shown.

If it is most likely that by the time I notice that I am being attacked that the attacker is right on top of me, how would a gun be of any help? Wouldn't a weapon that can be used easily at close range be more effective? This is of course assuming I can actually draw the weapon in time. However, if they open with the line "You killed my father, prepare to die." than I am going to assume they are a master swordsman and and run for my life!

general question: which situation would you least want to be in, and which would you prefer over the others: your hands vs knife, a baton vs knife, a knife vs knife? This is assuming that the distance has already closed, but you have had time to draw and present your weapon before the first strike is thrown.

another question: If the distance closes to fast for a gun to be used, is it any more likely that a knife, baton or other weapon of the kind can be used?

 

[crazydiamond]

In order of most preferred to least. Baton vs Knife, Knife vs Knife, Fist vs knife.

I have trained in all.

 

[jks9199]

A gun, with practice and carried in a reasonable manner, can be deployed and fired at contact ranges, even if you've been stabbed and even fairly significantly wounded. As in, when you're in a condition that you would NOT be able to use a baton or your empty hands effectively. It takes practice, and proper training -- but it can be done reliably.

If I had to choose what to go up against someone with a knife, my first choice would be a rifle, from a comfortable distance. Since that probably negates any argument of self defense, my next choice would be a gun. I can move and use empty hand techniques to create distance and get myself time to act with the gun. If I can't use a gun -- a baton at least gives me a bit more reach, and something less vulnerable than flesh to perhaps intercept the blade... but the truth comes down to a knife having a huge advantage, and neither the baton or empty hands alone are satisfactory.

 

[NinjaChristian]

In order of most preferred to least. Baton vs Knife, Knife vs Knife, Fist vs knife.

can you explain why you would prefer a baton over a knife against a knife? I have not trained weapon vs weapon before, but my gut feeling is that a baton has defencive properties that a knife does not have, while a knife can deal more damage but you are more likely to get stabbed yourself.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Assuming I have it out and am able to use it? Most will disagree but for me, first is hand vs. knife, then knife vs knife then baton vs. knife.
The reason baton is last is because I have never been trained with a baton. I fenced, but that doesn't focus on self defense, so not really a risk I would want to take.
As for knife or fist-i have trained both. Knife vs knife I do very well...in knife sparring. When my opponent acts as someone attempting to attack me, who is not concerned or does not know about self preservation, my success rate shoots way down. I do not have a high success rate with hand vs knife either (anyone who does is a genius, or their partner is not truly trying to attack them) but it is slightly better than my knife SD success rate.
If the knife would intimidate the person trying to attack me though, knife goes to the top of my list. Much more confident if they're scared of my knife.

 

[drop bear]

can you explain why you would prefer a baton over a knife against a knife? I have not trained weapon vs weapon before, but my gut feeling is that a baton has defencive properties that a knife does not have, while a knife can deal more damage but you are more likely to get stabbed yourself.

It is longer and it works more quickly.

 

[Dirty Dog]

If it is most likely that by the time I notice that I am being attacked that the attacker is right on top of me, how would a gun be of any help? Wouldn't a weapon that can be used easily at close range be more effective? This is of course assuming I can actually draw the weapon in time. However, if they open with the line "You killed my father, prepare to die." than I am going to assume they are a master swordsman and and run for my life!

It's extremely rare for a knife wound to be immediately lethal or disabling. And guns are quite effective at close range. They don't even require room to swing your arm.

 

[lklawson]

If it is most likely that by the time I notice that I am being attacked that the attacker is right on top of me, how would a gun be of any help?

First thing to remember is that ALL weapons are "Force Multipliers." A firearm requires less training and practice time to reach a minimum skill level than any other weapon. A firearm requires less physicality (strength and athleticism) than any other weapon. A firearm more effectively acts as a Force Multiplier than most other weapons with similar size and weight constraints.

Wouldn't a weapon that can be used easily at close range be more effective?

A firearm can be quite effectively used at close range. There are many cases where a firearm has been effectively deployed at "Contact Range."

This is of course assuming I can actually draw the weapon in time.

True for any weapon.

general question: which situation would you least want to be in, and which would you prefer over the others: your hands vs knife, a baton vs knife, a knife vs knife? This is assuming that the distance has already closed, but you have had time to draw and present your weapon before the first strike is thrown.

The firearm is the PREIMENENT weapon of our time. Literally, nothing else performs the role as well. That said, it is not for everyone. While a firearm requires less training for effective use than other weapons, it does still require training from a qualified instructor and that may not be available to you. It also must be legal to carry and use, and that, as we all well know, is varied depending upon location and even the age of the user. And, unfortunately, there is an illogical and undeserved stigma attached to firearms which may deter its use for any number of reasons.

another question: If the distance closes to fast for a gun to be used, is it any more likely that a knife, baton or other weapon of the kind can be used?

This is a myth. Firearms are fine as close in weapons and there's no reason in the world disqualifying one as "too fast for a gun to be used" which would not equally disqualify any other weapon.

If you cannot, or will not, use a firearm for whatever reason, I prefer a cane in defense. An expanding baton may be equally disqualified for you but is an OK option if a cane is not. Another knife can sometimes be effective. All of these option require vastly more training and physicality than the firearm, but there you have it.

A good set of cut/stab-proof undergarment are also quite effective.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

I have not trained weapon vs weapon before

Honestly, I'd recommend discussing this subject with a Weapons For Self Defense instructor. While I have found hit-or-miss quality in the RBSD (Reality Based Self Defense) martial arts arena, that'd be a much better place to ask these questions than on the 'net.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Concealable? A pistol.

I spend a stupid amount of time on knife and stick stuff and I still wouldn't preferentially go for a knife. I carry a knife all the time but more as a tool that a SD weapon. If I was seriously concerned that I was actually going to run into a guy with bad intentions and a knife I would be regularly carrying my Glock. A collapsible baton is just as much of a PITA to carry as my gun is, so I can't see why I would pack that around.

There's also the fact that in many places a baton, oddly, is more illegal than a gun. In NC, I can get a CWP to carry my Glock, but I cannot get a legal permit to carry an ASP baton. I've been informed by a few sources that if I used one in a fight, and wasn't working security and carrying it as part of my standard gear (and I'm not a security agent, so I wouldn't be), then I'd be in trouble.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

First thing to remember is that ALL weapons are "Force Multipliers." A firearm requires less training and practice time to reach a minimum skill level than any other weapon. A firearm requires less physicality (strength and athleticism) than any other weapon. A firearm more effectively acts as a Force Multiplier than most other weapons with similar size and weight constraints.

A firearm can be quite effectively used at close range. There are many cases where a firearm has been effectively deployed at "Contact Range."

True for any weapon.

The firearm is the PREIMENENT weapon of our time. Literally, nothing else performs the role as well. That said, it is not for everyone. While a firearm requires less training for effective use than other weapons, it does still require training from a qualified instructor and that may not be available to you. It also must be legal to carry and use, and that, as we all well know, is varied depending upon location and even the age of the user. And, unfortunately, there is an illogical and undeserved stigma attached to firearms which may deter its use for any number of reasons.

This is a myth. Firearms are fine as close in weapons and there's no reason in the world disqualifying one as "too fast for a gun to be used" which would not equally disqualify any other weapon.

If you cannot, or will not, use a firearm for whatever reason, I prefer a cane in defense. An expanding baton may be equally disqualified for you but is an OK option if a cane is not. Another knife can sometimes be effective. All of these option require vastly more training and physicality than the firearm, but there you have it.

A good set of cut/stab-proof undergarment are also quite effective.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Yes. All of this. The knife-beats-gun argument is based upon the knife user having his weapon out, and the gun being holstered (it was research for LEO's facing armed suspects). You could swap the two weapons (gun out, knife sheathed) and the numbers swing drastically in the other direction...then they keep going, because the gun-wielder need not get within range of the knife.

I favor a cane, because even the TSA can't take it away from me. I do need one from time to time (crappy knees, highly arthritic toe), and develop an amazing limp when I get near airport security checkpoints. Odd, that.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I favor a cane, because even the TSA can't take it away from me. I do need one from time to time (crappy knees, highly arthritic toe), and develop an amazing limp when I get near airport security checkpoints. Odd, that.

If you want something like that, wear a sarong as a scarf as well. Now you have two weapons you can grab easily depending on the situation!

 

[NinjaChristian]

Thanks everybody for the answers