Original belt colors

[puunui]

A General did not participate in demonstrations, I don't care what country you're from.

Is that rule written down somewhere?

The Oh do Kwan was set up with Nam Tae Hi and Han Cha Kyo as the instructors. Again, he was a General, he would not be teaching, that was left to lower ranks.

Ok, so you agree with me then that General Choi did not wear a uniform and did not teach when he was in the ROK Army. No problem.

GM Nam contacted other officers with Tang Soo Do experiance to assist the Oh do Kwan to spread the training throughout the Korean Army. Those first instructors, according to GM C.K.Choi, were Nam Tae Hi, Ko Jae Chun, Woo Jung Lim, Kim Suk Kyu, and Baek Joon Ki.

I see that in GM Choi's book, page 81-82. But on page 9, GM Choi references GM WOO Jong Lim as "General". Does that mean he didn't teach or demonstrate either?

Now, between 1955 and 1957, the first three new patterns were developed. Gen. Choi and GM Nam developed Hwa Rang and Choong Mo patterns and Gen. Choi and GM Han developed Ul-Ji pattern . These patterns were, in turn, taught to the troops along with Japanese Kata by those first instructors.

I see that again in GM Choi's book, page 81-82. Are you just throwing that in there or does it have some relevance to the discussion? For example, when "Gen. Choi and GM Nam developed Hwa Rang and Choong Mo patterns and Gen. Choi and GM Han developed Ul-Ji pattern", did General Choi wear his dobok and actually work through the physical movements with GM Nam and GM Han? GM Choi's book doesn't say.

 

[puunui]

Why is it that I must prove something Gen. Choi said by I have to take the word of what someone said to you without question?

You don't have to do anything. And to make it even more clear, I am not trying to convince you of anything. But again, if you have a problem with what GM Lee said, go take it up with him.

 

[puunui]

As I have related before, as told to me by GM Nam Tae Hi as to why General Choi did not teach the troops directly, he said that an officer would not associate that way with enlisted men. It just wasn't done. General Choi would spend time with him and the other ODK instructors, going over techniques / patterns etc. and those instructors would teach the troops.

The problem with that is that GM Nam and a lot of the other Oh Do Kwan pioneers were officers. GM WOO Jong Lim was even a General, and most of the others ended up as Colonels, including but not limited to GM Nam.

As far as "The demonstration goes" I guess the first question would be who organized it? It was but a small part of a much larger military demonstration / exhibition of Vehicles, artillary airplanes etc. Participants in the Martial Arts portion seemed to only be active CDK students. So, logicaly at that time General Choi would not be a part since once again he was an officer, and I don't think he was an active CDK student. He might not have even been aware that this would be a part of the exhibition.

General Choi talks about this in his autobiography. You can see what he says about who participated in that demonstration, wand when it was held, which in part was to commemorate the first year anniversary of his 29th Division.

 

[puunui]

Why is it that I must prove something Gen. Choi said by I have to take the word of what someone said to you without question?

Oh, and I forgot to mention, if what you are trying to "prove" are statements regarding his alleged early training with HAN Il Dong, then I can tell you that General Choi was interviewed by GM LEE Yong Bok, one of the leaders of Taekkyon in Korea. During that interview, which was videotaped, General Choi admitted that he did not have any training in Taekkyon with HAN Il Dong.

 

[Earl Weiss]

...>>>puunui

[h=2]Re: Original belt colors[/h]

Originally Posted by Earl Weiss
As I have related before, as told to me by GM Nam Tae Hi as to why General Choi did not teach the troops directly, he said that an officer would not associate that way with enlisted men. It just wasn't done. General Choi would spend time with him and the other ODK instructors, going over techniques / patterns etc. and those instructors would teach the troops.



The problem with that is that GM Nam and a lot of the other Oh Do Kwan pioneers were officers. GM WOO Jong Lim was even a General, and most of the others ended up as Colonels, including but not limited to GM Nam. <<<

You are correct. My use of terminology was incorrect. It should have said that a "General" not "Officer" would not associated with the enlisted men. Cannot speak to the alleged GM Woo Jong Lim being a General issue. You would have to ask GM Nam
​

 

[puunui]

Cannot speak to the alleged GM Woo Jong Lim being a General issue. You would have to ask GM Nam

No need to ask GM Nam. There is a picture of GM WOO Jong Lim in GM CK Choi's book wearing his military uniform, and you can see at least one star on his shoulders.

 

[tkd1964]

No need to ask GM Nam. There is a picture of GM WOO Jong Lim in GM CK Choi's book wearing his military uniform, and you can see at least one star on his shoulders.

GM Woo was a Major in 1957,a Lt. Colonel in 1962 at which time he held the first Taekwon-Do Champinship. I do not see where GM Choi said he was a General or where you can see a star on his uniform.

 

[tkd1964]

I see that again in GM Choi's book, page 81-82. Are you just throwing that in there or does it have some relevance to the discussion? For example, when "Gen. Choi and GM Nam developed Hwa Rang and Choong Mo patterns and Gen. Choi and GM Han developed Ul-Ji pattern", did General Choi wear his dobok and actually work through the physical movements with GM Nam and GM Han? GM Choi's book doesn't say.

What is it with you and Doboks. The only time I saw Gen. Choi wear a uniform, aside from pictures for his books, was at a Seminar in Canada for Fifth Degrees(?) and above. So then traveling around the World for 40 plus years doesn't count since he didn't wear a Dobok. When he went to Vietnam to teach there didn't count either...no Dobok. I don't think he wore one for Master Weisses seminar in chicago either. I know he didn't when he came to town for Master Hong Song Yu. Even the last seminar in Colorado as seen on you tube, yep, no Dobok. Wow, you really have something there.

 

[Spookey]

With no attempt to play devils advocate...

I must first mention my high regard for General Choi. Now to qualify that even with a great level of respect I still believe many others are due credit as well for the formative years of Taekwondo.

That being said GM Woo, Jong Lim became Brigadier General, Woo Jong-Lim later in his career.

Other Points of Interest
1. GM Woo, Jong-Lim was the first instructor of Taekwondo Legend - GM Kong Young-il
2. GM Woo, Jong Lim opened the civilian annex of the OhDoKwan
3. GM Woo, Jong Lim went on to become President of Daehan Taekwondo Ohdokwan, Jong An Bon Kwan, Seoul Korea

 

[puunui]

GM Woo was a Major in 1957,a Lt. Colonel in 1962 at which time he held the first Taekwon-Do Champinship. I do not see where GM Choi said he was a General or where you can see a star on his uniform.

Page 9.

 

[puunui]

What is it with you and Doboks. The only time I saw Gen. Choi wear a uniform, aside from pictures for his books, was at a Seminar in Canada for Fifth Degrees(?) and above. So then traveling around the World for 40 plus years doesn't count since he didn't wear a Dobok. When he went to Vietnam to teach there didn't count either...no Dobok. I don't think he wore one for Master Weisses seminar in chicago either. I know he didn't when he came to town for Master Hong Song Yu. Even the last seminar in Colorado as seen on you tube, yep, no Dobok. Wow, you really have something there.

He also is wearing one when he is breaking those boards with his knife hand. He says in his autobiography that when he took that picture, he let out a out kihap "Yat!", but if you look at the photo, his mouth is closed, with what looks like a clenched jaw.

And it's not me, it's the other people who say they never saw him wear a dobok or teach students when he was in the military. If you wish to revere General Choi, then go for it. But please keep in mind that those that worked with him during those early years have a different perspective.

 

[Earl Weiss]

No need to ask GM Nam. There is a picture of GM WOO Jong Lim in GM CK Choi's book wearing his military uniform, and you can see at least one star on his shoulders.

The question about the "General Issue" was not whether he ever made "General" but rather the statement with regard to teaching the tropps "That a General would not associate with enlisted men in this fashion", and how then did GM Woo Jong Lim apparently do this.

 

[Earl Weiss]

If you wish to revere General Choi, then go for it. But please keep in mind that those that worked with him during those early years have a different perspective.

Particularly those who split from him for any number of reasons so they certainly would not harbor any bad feelings or jealousy.

 

[puunui]

The question about the "General Issue" was not whether he ever made "General" but rather the statement with regard to teaching the tropps "That a General would not associate with enlisted men in this fashion", and how then did GM Woo Jong Lim apparently do this.

My mistake. I thought you said we should ask GM Nam if GM Woo was a General when you said this: "Cannot speak to the alleged GM Woo Jong Lim being a General issue. You would have to ask GM Nam"


But tkd1964 definitely wanted proof of GM Woo being a General when he asked this: "GM Woo was a Major in 1957,a Lt. Colonel in 1962 at which time he held the first Taekwon-Do Champinship. I do not see where GM Choi said he was a General or where you can see a star on his uniform."

 

[puunui]

Particularly those who split from him for any number of reasons so they certainly would not harbor any bad feelings or jealousy.

That would basically be the vast majority of people, including but not limited to those that have been mentioned in this thread.