The name Taekwondo was created in the 1950's, but at that time, the technical biomechanics were still from Karate, and also Kwon Bup. And during the 50's General Choi was busy being a general in the ROK Army; he had no time to be wasting on taekwondo's development. He had no students and was not developing anything, at least in the 1950's. If you want, go look at the videos on youtube to see what Taekwondo looked like in the 50's.
Original belt colors
- Thread starter Kong Soo Do
- Start date
The name Taekwondo was created in the 1950's, but at that time, the technical biomechanics were still from Karate, and also Kwon Bup. And during the 50's General Choi was busy being a general in the ROK Army; he had no time to be wasting on taekwondo's development. He had no students and was not developing anything, at least in the 1950's. If you want, go look at the videos on youtube to see what Taekwondo looked like in the 50's.
There was some video out there which showed early shotokan practitioners doing down block with one arm moving only, with the other arm retracted in the fist on hip position. I have a Funakoshi Sensei tape I bought which shows that. I think that is what he is talking about. But the two armed motions what not something General Choi developed. I have photos of the original chung do kwan from the 1940's which show obvious two handed motions for blocks and strikes, similar to what we have today.
I never meant to say that Gen. Choi developed the two arm motion. If that was how it was taken then I apologise.
That is your opinion. He did have time, otherwise he would not have worried about naming the art TKD, bringing a group of men together for tha purpose, then going to the President to convince him to agree on this name. His life was TKD. When he was Ambassador to Maylasia, he cared more of TKD. Many people did not even know of korea and he felt that TKD would be a good stepping stone to aide him in getting Korea known. he would do demonstrations for diplomats which got him in trouble since pictures were taken of him doing the demonstration with his suit coat off. this was seen as embarrassing to the Korean people to have an ambassador acting in this manner. He saw it as opening the Maylasians eyes to Korea.
It is fact, not opinion. General Choi's life was the ROK Army, not Taekwondo, which is why we still address him as General, not GM or some other martial arts title.
The naming committee was created because ROK President RHEE Syng Man exclaimed "That's Taekkyon!" after witnessing GM NAM Tae Hi break those roofing tiles in 1954. After President Rhee said that, everyone, including General Choi, asked "What's Taekkyon?" because they never heard about it until President Rhee mentioned it. This comes from a long time ITF senior who was present for the demonstration. This senior said that General Choi was busy with his military career, which was the most important thing to him, and that he never saw General Choi wear a dobok and never saw him teach during his time in the ROK Army.
But if you want, please show me one photo of General Choi wearing a dobok and teaching a class in the 1950's, which is what we are talking about. One can find people who did the actual teaching and training wearing their dobok in the 1950's, but not General Choi. The article written by Master Weiss is one example. Think about it. If his life was all about Taekwondo, then why did he have a need for "Honorary" rank from the Chung Do Kwan during the 1950's? We give honorary rank to non-Taekwondoin, not practicing martial artists, just like we give Honorary college or university degrees to non-students.
General Choi became an ambassador in the 1960's. We are talking about the 1950's, when you say Taekwondo was created.
I started in taekwondo in 1970, though in hind sight the school was clearly a shotokan derivative. Odd belt system - white, yellow, green, each with a stripe for "high" and the three levels of brown prior to black. Anyone else ever run across this?
BoA36
BoA36
dancingalone
Grandmaster
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2007
- Messages
- 5,322
- Reaction score
- 281
<shrugs> It looks like he is pulling back with the hikite arm to me as I would expect, even if the movement is small. You can see his students in the other videos have bigger movements which show the push/pull more.
Unrelated to the point at hand, but the performer is the head of a Goju-ryu group yet the forms they play in the related videos are variations on the Pinan forms, which generally considered Shorin-ryu forms. Interesting interpretations.
Spookey
Purple Belt
By the late 1960's the Ohdokwan still used four belts, but had removed brown changing the order to White, Blue, Red, Black. Then in about 1973-1974 the six belt system was implemented along with the new hyung.
Spooks
Spooks
And the Oh Do Kwan Jang at the time, GM HYUN Jong Myun, was a member of the KTA Committee that created the Palgwae and Yudanja poomsae in 1967 and the Taeguek and new Koryo (the one we do now) in 1972. So the Chang Hon forms have been incorporated into the Kukkiwon poomsae by GM Hyun, who was the senior Oh Do Kwan member, more senior than even GM NAM Tae Hi. GM Hyun was part of the first group of dan holders at the Chung Do Kwan under GM LEE Won Kuk, he was present during the 1954 Naming Committee meeting, and was also the person who first showed GM HWANG Kee the Chung Do Kwan forms when both worked at Seoul Station.
A small group near the old New Castle County/Wilmington, DE airport. Instructor was a 2nd dan named Christian Zuber. Do not recall under whom he had studied. Then worked with another 2nd dan who studied under a Korean master teaching in the Malvern, PA area. Would love to be able to find more info on him but have never been able to do so.
BoA36
Who was this ITF senior you are talking about? In the picture after the Demo,there were three people discussing the demo, President Rhee, Gen. Choi, and one other soldier who I believe is Major-general Jong Oh Kim. There was no one else close to here them speak.
Gen. Choi had no interest in Taekwon-do at the time he was in the military, this is why he founded the Oh Do Kwan, this is why he had a demo in front of the President. This is why he took a Military Demo team to Vietnam. Gen. Choi was too busy.
This story of Gen. Choi asking "What's Taekkyon?" sounds just like all the other stories; Gen. Choi slapped a relative of President Park so he had to leave the Country, GM Son passed a matchbook with Taekwon-Do on it, etc.
It was GM Byung Moo Lee. If you have a problem with what he said, if you think he is a liar, then I suggest you take it up with him personally. GM Lee just volunteered the information. I didn't ask him about it but rather just let him speak freely about his perspective.
Also, I am assuming that you couldn't find a photo of General Choi wearing a dobok in the 1950s teaching anyone. No problem, because there are no such photos.
He did such things, but it was GM NAM Tae Hi who did all the work, including at the demonstration. If General Choi the martial artist that you claim he was in the 1950s, why didn't he perform at the demo? Why make GM Nam do it? Think about it.
The difference is that it comes from someone who was a long time member of the ITF, someone who has no reason to lie about something like that. It is not like it is a statement from one of General Choi's "enemies".
The difference between you and I is that you take everything in the light most favorable to General Choi. I take things in the light in which it actually occurred.
Spookey
Purple Belt
Grandmaster Ee, Byung Moo was the second most senior of the Ohdokwan (after GM Nam) if I am not mistaken. May I ask the context of the conversation in which he said this to you? Once I receive more information regarding the context, I may inquire with GM Ee, during our next conversation.
Spooks
Spooks
The context was that we were walking around and happened upon his store. We went in, and I recognized him, we started talking about Taekwondo and he volunteered the information while I listened to him speak about his perspective on the history of Taekwondo. It wasn't like I was trying to dig for information against General Choi and pumping him for damaging information. He just honestly told me the way he remembered it, without prompting or leading questions from me.
A General did not participate in demonstrations, I don't care what country you're from. The Oh do Kwan was set up with Nam Tae Hi and Han Cha Kyo as the instructors. Again, he was a General, he would not be teaching, that was left to lower ranks. GM Nam contacted other officers with Tang Soo Do experiance to assist the Oh do Kwan to spread the training throughout the Korean Army. Those first instructors, according to GM C.K.Choi, were Nam Tae Hi, Ko Jae Chun, Woo Jung Lim, Kim Suk Kyu, and Baek Joon Ki.
Now, between 1955 and 1957, the first three new patterns were developed. Gen. Choi and GM Nam developed Hwa Rang and Choong Mo patterns and Gen. Choi and GM Han developed Ul-Ji pattern . These patterns were, in turn, taught to the troops along with Japanese Kata by those first instructors.
Why is it that I must prove something Gen. Choi said by I have to take the word of what someone said to you without question?
Sorry but I don't take only favorable things on Gen. Choi. Gen. Choi caused alot of friction with Taekwon-Do from the Military to the KTA, to the ITF itself. He was far from perfect. But for you to quote a former ITF instructor and say it actually happened the way he said without more facts I don't buy it. sorry.
Earl Weiss
Senior Master
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2009
- Messages
- 3,598
- Reaction score
- 939
