MMA vs Kung Fu Day 2 - The war room

[JowGaWolf]

It's almost time for another round of sparring for me. I think I'm all healed up or at least I think I will by this coming Monday (hopefully). I have another round of high stance sparring to get through, this part of the training sucks, because I already know what the outcome will be. The first day of sparring pretty much summed up everything I've talked about narrow stances, the risks, and dangers of using a high stance. With all of that said I'm still going to give it my best shot to figure out some exceptions to what I currently know about using a high stance.

I've been thinking to ask him if I can record the next session. It seems like I'm throwing a way a good opportunity for other Kung Fu practitioners to have some video footage that may help them with some of their own theories. If you guys don't have anyone to take you down then at least you can see me hit the mat (every time), at least until I start lowering my stance. So what are my plans for the next round of punishment?

Here's what I'm thinking:
1. Footwork speed and big angles (larger than 45 degree angles.
2. In and outs - pop in and get out.
3. Jumping - My theory about jumping is that it will force me not to stand up too tall as my legs will need to be in a position to be able to jump. In kung fu there is a technique where the practitioner jumps away from the attacker. I'll give this a try if it's feasible to do it from a high stance. There's a small jump / stomp in kung fu that has always seem out of place in sparring and my theory is that it might be used for grappling to prevent the leg from being picked up. There's only one way to find out lol.

After this I'm done with anything high stance + grappling. It's just a bad idea all around. I've seen it play out the same way every time no matter the sport. Physics and Biology just works against me then add the strength of my opponent. It's like I'm making things more difficult for me, which is something you just really don't want to do in competition or in a fight.

Well that's my plan for round 2. I'll try to record it if the MMA guy is cool with that. Maybe he'll have some thoughts of his own about it.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

It's almost time for another round of sparring for me. I think I'm all healed up or at least I think I will by this coming Monday (hopefully). I have another round of high stance sparring to get through, this part of the training sucks, because I already know what the outcome will be. The first day of sparring pretty much summed up everything I've talked about narrow stances, the risks, and dangers of using a high stance. With all of that said I'm still going to give it my best shot to figure out some exceptions to what I currently know about using a high stance.

I've been thinking to ask him if I can record the next session. It seems like I'm throwing a way a good opportunity for other Kung Fu practitioners to have some video footage that may help them with some of their own theories. If you guys don't have anyone to take you down then at least you can see me hit the mat (every time), at least until I start lowering my stance. So what are my plans for the next round of punishment?

Here's what I'm thinking:
1. Footwork speed and big angles (larger than 45 degree angles.
2. In and outs - pop in and get out.
3. Jumping - My theory about jumping is that it will force me not to stand up too tall as my legs will need to be in a position to be able to jump. In kung fu there is a technique where the practitioner jumps away from the attacker. I'll give this a try if it's feasible to do it from a high stance. There's a small jump / stomp in kung fu that has always seem out of place in sparring and my theory is that it might be used for grappling to prevent the leg from being picked up. There's only one way to find out lol.

After this I'm done with anything high stance + grappling. It's just a bad idea all around. I've seen it play out the same way every time no matter the sport. Physics and Biology just works against me then add the strength of my opponent. It's like I'm making things more difficult for me, which is something you just really don't want to do in competition or in a fight.

Well that's my plan for round 2. I'll try to record it if the MMA guy is cool with that. Maybe he'll have some thoughts of his own about it.

I will love to see it! Keep on!

 

[Damien]

There's a small jump / stomp in kung fu that has always seem out of place in sparring and my theory is that it might be used for grappling to prevent the leg from being picked up. There's only one way to find out lol.

Do you mean where you pick one foot up first and then second, so you end up with a kind of double stamp jump?

If so, it's a good way to drop someone down when you're in close grappling/clinching; it makes for a very sudden drop of your weight which is hard for them to notice is coming if you lift your rear most foot fist. You end up in a better position than them afterwards. You have to be quick and do it as soon as you detect a lull of course to prevent being thrown yourself.

 

[Jared Traveler]

It's almost time for another round of sparring for me. I think I'm all healed up or at least I think I will by this coming Monday (hopefully). I have another round of high stance sparring to get through, this part of the training sucks, because I already know what the outcome will be. The first day of sparring pretty much summed up everything I've talked about narrow stances, the risks, and dangers of using a high stance. With all of that said I'm still going to give it my best shot to figure out some exceptions to what I currently know about using a high stance.

I've been thinking to ask him if I can record the next session. It seems like I'm throwing a way a good opportunity for other Kung Fu practitioners to have some video footage that may help them with some of their own theories. If you guys don't have anyone to take you down then at least you can see me hit the mat (every time), at least until I start lowering my stance. So what are my plans for the next round of punishment?

Here's what I'm thinking:
1. Footwork speed and big angles (larger than 45 degree angles.
2. In and outs - pop in and get out.
3. Jumping - My theory about jumping is that it will force me not to stand up too tall as my legs will need to be in a position to be able to jump. In kung fu there is a technique where the practitioner jumps away from the attacker. I'll give this a try if it's feasible to do it from a high stance. There's a small jump / stomp in kung fu that has always seem out of place in sparring and my theory is that it might be used for grappling to prevent the leg from being picked up. There's only one way to find out lol.

After this I'm done with anything high stance + grappling. It's just a bad idea all around. I've seen it play out the same way every time no matter the sport. Physics and Biology just works against me then add the strength of my opponent. It's like I'm making things more difficult for me, which is something you just really don't want to do in competition or in a fight.

Well that's my plan for round 2. I'll try to record it if the MMA guy is cool with that. Maybe he'll have some thoughts of his own about it.

It seems like a big concern here is being taken down. Evasive foot work can be helpful, but do you have experience counter takedown grappling skills?

 

[drop bear]

Here's what I'm thinking:
1. Footwork speed and big angles (larger than 45 degree angles.
2. In and outs - pop in and get out.
3. Jumping - My theory about jumping is that it will force me not to stand up too tall as my legs will need to be in a position to be able to jump. In kung fu there is a technique where the practitioner jumps away from the attacker. I'll give this a try if it's feasible to do it from a high stance. There's a small jump / stomp in kung fu that has always seem out of place in sparring and my theory is that it might be used for grappling to prevent the leg from being picked up. There's only one way to find out lol.

just bear in mind if he is better than you. And this jump becomes some sort of a flying knee to the head.

you are going to have a bad day.

 

[JowGaWolf]

It seems like a big concern here is being taken down. Evasive foot work can be helpful, but do you have experience counter takedown grappling skills?

Yes, but not in a high stance. Right now I'm fighting in a higher stance than I normally would. I don't even train at the stance height that I'm currently using unless I'm tired or walking through forms to keep it fresh in memory.

 

[JowGaWolf]

just bear in mind if he is better than you. And this jump becomes some sort of a flying knee to the head.

you are going to have a bad day.

the jumps aren't that high. One is long and away, the other is like what Damien describe. It's a sudden drop of weight. The best way I can describe the short one is that it's like "jumping downward" Normally we jump up to move high. This one you jump up less than an inch so that you can quickly drop all of your weight downward. The jump is so small and quick that it seems like it's something that would be done in a scenario where you want to quickly drop your weight.

In kung fu forms it often looks and sounds like the person is stomping their foot, but it's not stomping. That sound is actually coming from the full weight of the body landing after the user has sunk his weight. Hence "jumping downward" It's the complete opposite of jumping up and landing softly.

I do realize that my explanation may have caused more confusion. I see if I can film it when I go workout tonight. I have to see what adjustments I have to make for using it on a mat, where the force of my jump would be absorbed by the softness of the mat. I'm concerned that it may make this jump slower. gotta see what the difference is, if any.

 

[Jared Traveler]

Yes, but not in a high stance. Right now I'm fighting in a higher stance than I normally would. I don't even train at the stance height that I'm currently using unless I'm tired or walking through forms to keep it fresh in memory.

I'm trying to understand how how being in a higher stance would cancel out existing counter takedown techniques. I understand they might require modifying them a bit, but a sprawl is a sprawl, a hip block, creating fences and obstacles, a cut away, level changes, posting, hand fighting, it seems like it has its place no matter your stance height? Honestly what am I missing here?

Are you saying your defense was your low stance? Or you are having trouble using your counter takedown skills while starting in a higher, more narrow, upright stance?

 

[JowGaWolf]

I'm trying to understand how how being in a higher stance would cancel out existing counter takedown techniques.

Techniques are only effective at specific stance heights. If you aren't within the effective stance height then that technique will fail. This is true for all techniques.

A high stance is going to be problematic when dealing with grappler. I'm taking notes on why it fails and what the risks are because of it. Based on that information, I'll search for a kung fu technique that can counter it.

My defense for grappling is never to be in a high stance when in grappling range.

 

[Jared Traveler]

Techniques are only effective at specific stance heights. If you aren't within the effective stance height then that technique will fail. This is true for all techniques.

A high stance is going to be problematic when dealing with grappler. I'm taking notes on why it fails and what the risks are because of it. Based on that information, I'll search for a kung fu technique that can counter it.

My defense for grappling is never to be in a high stance when in grappling range.

If you have solid skills it sounds like this guy is just on the next level. Some people are just fantastic at taking people down. No shame in that, good on him. I would suggest at least exploring working on your defense from a higher stance. I do think focusing on footwork is a great idea, but eventually he will probably walk you down, cut off the ring and catch you flat footed regardless.

Just my thoughts, more of a shot in the dark, because I don't know either of your skills, and I haven't seen any footage.

I would also consider where you are putting your weight in your high stance. 50/50? Lighter or heavier on the front foot?

 

[JowGaWolf]

If you have solid skills it sounds like this guy is just on the next level

I'll find out once I get to my mid to low stance defenses. He might not be as "next level" at that point. He's definitely much stronger than me. Not a small guy with better cardio and muscular endurance for grappling. The other stances should keep me out of that sand box.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I would suggest at least exploring working on your defense from a higher stance

Someone told me that in the past. I'm still not feeling it.

 

[Damien]

the jumps aren't that high. One is long and away, the other is like what Damien describe. It's a sudden drop of weight. The best way I can describe the short one is that it's like "jumping downward" Normally we jump up to move high. This one you jump up less than an inch so that you can quickly drop all of your weight downward. The jump is so small and quick that it seems like it's something that would be done in a scenario where you want to quickly drop your weight.

In kung fu forms it often looks and sounds like the person is stomping their foot, but it's not stomping. That sound is actually coming from the full weight of the body landing after the user has sunk his weight. Hence "jumping downward" It's the complete opposite of jumping up and landing softly.

I do realize that my explanation may have caused more confusion. I see if I can film it when I go workout tonight. I have to see what adjustments I have to make for using it on a mat, where the force of my jump would be absorbed by the softness of the mat. I'm concerned that it may make this jump slower. gotta see what the difference is, if any.

Already posted this elsewhere, but just realised it's relevant to this discussion too! This jumping downward movement appears at around 1:48 in this video; that is assuming we're talking about the same thing! It can be done in a number of different ways, just so happens to appear like this in this form.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

What's the purpose of your sparring?

1. To enhance the skill that you already have?
2. To develop new skill?

If your goal is 1, your winning record is important (build up self-confidence). If your goal is 2, your winning record is not important (you try to grow).

 

[JowGaWolf]

Already posted this elsewhere, but just realised it's relevant to this discussion too! This jumping downward movement appears at around 1:48 in this video; that is assuming we're talking about the same thing! It can be done in a number of different ways, just so happens to appear like this in this form.

Yes that's the little jump that I'm talking about. I didn't think about it until I started thinking of what technique may solve the issue of having a high stance and stopping someone from lifting me,

 

[JowGaWolf]

What's the purpose of your sparring?

1. To enhance the skill that you already have?
2. To develop new skill?

If your goal is 1, your winning record is important (build up self-confidence). If your goal is 2, your winning record is not important (you try to grow).

My answer is the reverse order of your question.
First. #2 Then once I learn #2 then I do #1 to maintain function.
#2 =To Grow
#1 = To maintain.

I cannot win without #2.

 

[drop bear]

Yes that's the little jump that I'm talking about. I didn't think about it until I started thinking of what technique may solve the issue of having a high stance and stopping someone from lifting me,

Have you considered single leg defences?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

My answer is the reverse order of your question.
First. #2 Then once I learn #2 then I do #1 to maintain function.
#2 =To Grow
#1 = To maintain.

I cannot win without #2.

So what MA skill do you intend to develop in the next 3 months?

 

[JowGaWolf]

Have you considered single leg defences?

I have some that I know work, but I don't use them because I know that they work. The only thing about the defenses that I know is that they don't work at the high stance that I'm currently sparring in. The majority of the Jow Ga techniques that I know aren't done in a high stance.

I have asked my MMA sparring partner not to provide suggestions at this time so that I don't have "cross pollination" I'm afraid that his suggestion may influence how I do a technique and cause me to incorrectly think it's Jow Ga when it's actually BJJ. Eventually I will ask but only after I think I've exhausted all of the Jow Ga and Shuai Jiao options that I think would work.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Have you considered single leg defences?

I don't suggest to develop "defense" skill. Why not try to develop "offense" skill (such as single leg}?

What's your MA training goal?

1. Ability to knock/take your opponent down, or
2. Ability not to be knocked/taken down?

You can't achieve 2 without having achieved 1 first.