MMA vs Kung Fu Day 1 Results

[JowGaWolf]

I'll start these post with a reminder of how I train. I spar to learn and not win. This is important because Iearn from mistakes which means I take risk until I can get a better understanding of the techniques I use and how to apply the techniques.

Goal for Day 1:
I just wanted to get back into getting used to seeing incoming punches, kicks, and take downs and things turned out just like I expect it would after not sparring for more than 6 years.

Things that didn't work
There's a lot of stuff that got in that normally wouldn't. I'm not seeing the strikes like and take downs like I used. I'm missing the level changes. Cardio was horrible. He out lasted me. He had an advantage with grappling endurance. In short I was a hot mess of 6 years of no sparring. So enough about things that didn't work.

Things that did work:
Timing of my front kick was still really good. He was getting caught with a bunch kicks that shouldn't have gone in. Side kicks landed. Crescent and Half moon kicks definitely not the best but I was still able to throw them. So I was happy about that. I was able to get a good throw, but was gassed out. The guy has a strong core so wringing that core like a towel too some effort. I was gassed after two successful throws. but over all those were better than I thought after two years. My Jow Ga strikes puzzled him. He said he had to try to figure it out and decode it. He thinks he has a good grasp but I told him I will stop "baby feeding" him the punches once I see he is able to defend the punches. For the most part the little kung fu that I applied work, but the conditioning wasn't there there to sustain it. Standing foot hooks.

Things that I didn't try to defend until it was too late.
Part of learning to see movement and weight shift is that you have to watch and see everything up to the movement of impact. Then you stop watching and start grappling or punching. When I'm watching things going in I'm trying to see the whole body and not just a small section. It takes training before it becomes natural and it takes continuous training to keep the skill set. So what does that mean. I probably would have tried to defend some of these things if my legs were stronger. I have to get back into my stance training and my leg training.

I ate a lot of punches that would have been bad if we were sparring hard
I took some rides on the Single leg take down bus
I sparred from over hooks, under hooks, over unders.
I worked some defenses against the mount (cardio and muscular endurance killed me. I need to get some static training in on the arms.)
I stuck my legs out to invite low kicks and discover that I'm reaching down to block kicks. It was never an issue in the past so not sure where I picked problem up from.
I had the air squeezed out of me when defending the mount.
I had to get within the grappling range to try a difficult Shuai Jiao technique. That one is going to take a long time. I need someone to do some of these techniques on me so I can feel what I should be doing and where I need to grab and set up the technique. I'm going to tray some smaller stuff.

Things that surprised me.
My shadowless kicks (oblique kicks) were on point tonight. My hip injury from my car accident sometimes causes pain when I do these kicks. Tonight I was able land a high percentage with ease. I wasn't expecting that. I was almost ready to say good by to those kicks and only have a memory of pre-accident of when I could use them. Tonight I was able to do them without issue. I landed them on the shins and on his ribs. So I'm happy about things that I can still do. I think I just have to do an exercise that increases flexibility in my hips. There's a tendon or muscle that gets wrapped around something and it pulls tight. Tight as in if I try to stretch it, then it will tear. I'll have to show this exercise so you can see the before and after.
I got slack on my stance training and paid a heavy price. Legs gassing out. I didn't realize that I lost that much leg endurance. Oh I landed 2 toe kicks with "perfection" one to the ribs and one to the shine. "Perfection" to me is great timing, landed on solid on target, and kicked with the correct part of my foot.

Things I tried for @Kung Fu Wang
So I tried the circular arm movement to knock down punches. These had limited use, I could get away with 2 circular movements but my 3rd movement has to be different. As I was trying the technique I came to the same conclusion that Wang had Championed for as long as I've been a member here on MT and probably longer than that. The conclusion is to use the circular arms to move into grappling position. Some other guys came in and I think they were recording. So it might end up as another MMA vs Kung Fu thing "Watch Kung Fu get dogged." which is far from the truth of what was really going on. Far from it. Just 2 guys working their techniques. We both tried to use the same Shuai Jiao technique and had a good laugh about that. We had a coupe of good laugh in between me gasping for air just from being as out of shape as I was.

But back to Wang's technique. I think I can pull it off with success. I just need a few more sparring sessions to play with the technique some more. I engaged in more grappling than usual. I really got out of my safety zone and comfort zone. I don't have any choice if I hope to learn to apply some Shuai Jiao. I can't learn Chinese Wrestling without wrestling. The technique feels possible. I don't have a lot of concern for failure when trying to use it. I just need more time with it.

What I learned.
I learned every part of where I need to improve. No guessing. Sparring made it clear cut. Some areas will take longer for me to improve. I think 3 or 4 more sparring sessions will get me back to where I can see things coming and pick up body shift.

I had fun a good experience. I figured I get my sparring in before the flew season starts up Once that comes around then I'll cut back on the sparring since the health experts are worried about an much bigger outbreak of Covid. I trained with my mask on tonight but the grappling is so close, that infection can happen easily. I'll try not to push my luck too much with Covid. Sparring is great but not worth being sick. I'm kind of rolling the dice as it is. He did show me a

Injuries:
I have a scratch on my arm, probably from finger nails. I'll wear a long sleeve shirt next time. Back, hip, Jammed Finger seems to be fine. I just knew I was going to re-injure my thumb tonight but I didn't. The MMA guy may have hurt his hips. He kept trying to adjust them after we finished. Maybe they were just tight?

Things I hate:
Not sparring in shoes. The grip is different so I have to power my movement a little different by driving the force downward into my feet. I'll live with it. It's not the end of the world. It's not a game stopper.

Things I didn't do:
I didn't fight in a low horse stance. 1. my legs are no longer strong enough (gotta fix that) and 2. I didn't try to defend the shoot attempts. I don't have any video this time around. I will take some video once I get into better shape.

What next?
Train, analyze, train. Sleep, and take care of some scratches on my arm and eat dinner.

 

[Alan0354]

Where's the video?

 

[JowGaWolf]

Where's the video?

I won't do any videos until after the first 4 or 5 sparring sessions. Right now there's no point since my focus at the moment is to get my fighting vision back. It doesn't help me if I can't see things coming. The good news is that it shouldn't take long for me to get it back.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Great, objective, honest self-evaluation!!! Follow up and you can't help but improve for sure. I could see myself experiencing the same things as you throughout your narrative. So, you're not alone in not seeing those incoming punches after a long sparring layoff. Not sure why - maybe not used to high speed action or freezing in one position too long? Or your neuro/muscular trained natural response just "forgot" to recognize and react to the stimulus. More sparring should fix that. No surprises, especially about cardio and grappling fatigue. I think that will be your biggest challenge as it would be for any striking art practitioner, regardless of age or condition.

Re the circular arm defense: Old Okinawan teaching, "Don't do the same technique three times in a row," but I'm glad you found some value in Kung Fu Wang's tactic and were willing to try some new stuff out. All in all, sounds you had a very positive and worthwhile experience. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Old Okinawan teaching, "Don't do the same technique three times in a row,"

Agree! CMA teaching, "If one technique fail 3 times, it's time to use that technique to set up your other technique."

 

[Flying Crane]

What kind of protective gear were you wearing?

 

[JowGaWolf]

What kind of protective gear were you wearing?

Only a mouth piece (a must) and gloves. He originally thought that we would be need shin pads. Then I told him that they won't be needed because we won't be going that hard with the striking.

 

[Flying Crane]

Only a mouth piece (a must) and gloves.

What kind of gloves?

 

[JowGaWolf]

What kind of gloves?

just regular MMA gloves, so we could work our grappling techniques to their fullest in terms of grips.

 

[Flying Crane]

just regular MMA gloves, so we could work our grappling techniques to their fullest in terms of grips.

In my opinion that is a better choice. I find boxing gloves to be terribly restrictive. Not just in terms of the inability to grab, but they are also bulky and dramatically change how you are able to punch in terms of the types of hand strikes often used in kung Fu methods. I think boxing gloves are an example of something that works well within the context of the sport, but not so well outside of that context.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Healing time for my sparring
Spar only once a week, take 2 rest days, and the other days if needed to heal before the next sparring match.

Last night was interesting. People usually don't stay in the room to train while we are in there, but they stayed to watch us sparring.


Question:
Does anyone know any good shoes for the mat other than wrestling shoes? I'm looking for some extra grip on the mat for my feet. Socks with grips?

 

[JowGaWolf]

In my opinion that is a better choice. I find boxing gloves to be terribly restrictive. Not just in terms of the inability to grab, but they are also bulky and dramatically change how you are able to punch in terms of the types of hand strikes often used in kung Fu methods. I think boxing gloves are an example of something that works well within the context of the sport, but not so well outside of that context.

Yeah I don't want to limit myself. A lot of stuff I do is like "needle work" I slip punches and kicks through small openings, The last thing I want is to have to change that up because a glove doesn't fit through the opening that I want to take advantage of.

 

[Flying Crane]

Yeah I don't want to limit myself. A lot of stuff I do is like "needle work" I slip punches and kicks through small openings, The last thing I want is to have to change that up because a glove doesn't fit through the opening that I want to take advantage of.

Well, and if you use boxing gloves then those limitations prevent you from really exploring what your system intends to use and it ends up more like boxing, but you haven’t trained boxing so it’s just poor quality boxing.

 

[Alan0354]

Question:
Does anyone know any good shoes for the mat other than wrestling shoes? I'm looking for some extra grip on the mat for my feet. Socks with grips?

Why not just bare foot? I can't kick front kick with shoe unless I kick with heel.

I strongly suggest you to use shin pad. You never know even if you do touch sparring, "chit" happens and it's going to be painful. You know I kick pole with shin for years, I definitely would wear one to spar myself. It's so painful it's not funny.

 

[JowGaWolf]

but you haven’t trained boxing so it’s just poor quality boxing.

My boxing skills aren't the issue it's the size of the glove vs the size of the hands. That would be like saying that I the reason I can't put a bowing ball in a tennis can is because I just have poor bowling skills.

 

[drop bear]

Regarding shoes for the mat. There are no good shoes other than wrestling shoes.

You can get hybrid MMA gloves that kind of split the difference.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Why not just bare foot?

Nasty mats.

I can't kick front kick with shoe unless I kick with heel.

It's all the same for me. Other with the exception that you can kick your hardest with a shoe on, over all protection (ground vs feet) and grip. My best grip is going to be with my shoes on. Shoes off means I have redirect my weight and how I push off to advance and cut angles.

I strongly suggest you to use shin pad. You never know even if you do touch sparring, "chit" happens and it's going to be painful.

This is why I condition my shins and why control of striking techniques is important. I can't just be throwing my leg out there kicking as if my leg is the hardest thing on the planet. I'm more worried about my sparring partner's legs being injured than my legs been injured. I hit my shins with a stick for conditioning.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Regarding shoes for the mat. There are no good shoes other than wrestling shoes.

You can get hybrid MMA gloves that kind of split the difference.

I have some 7-oz MMA sparring gloves that I really like because they give a bit more protection in case you accidentally hit your partner a little harder than you meant to. But they still allow effective grappling.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I have some 7-oz MMA sparring gloves that I really like because they give a bit more protection in case you accidentally hit your partner a little harder than you meant to. But they still allow effective grappling.

I took a look at some and I like that they cover the knuckles that I like to strike with. I'm add that to the list of gloves I'm going to try out. I like the old ones that I have, but they don't make them anymore. It's time for me to give up the old ones and get a new pair.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Have you tried to use foot sweep as your first move - entering strategy? I like to sweep my opponent's leading leg to force him to lift his leg up. When he does that, he can't punch me, and I'm safe.