MMA vs Kung Fu Day 1 Results

[Alan0354]

This is why I condition my shins and why control of striking techniques is important. I can't just be throwing my leg out there kicking as if my leg is the hardest thing on the planet. I'm more worried about my sparring partner's legs being injured than my legs been injured. I hit my shins with a stick for conditioning.

Yes, I started hitting the shins and forearms with my Nylon cane lately, it's even harder than kicking pole. But I still kick the pole as part of the weekly routine.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I hit my shins with a stick for conditioning.

Try to use your stick to "roll" along your shin bone.

 

[Alan0354]

Try to use your stick to "roll" along your shin bone.

That doesn't work, way too gentle. Use heavy stick to hit. Mine is 20oz, lighter ones like rattan would not work.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Have you tried to use foot sweep as your first move - entering strategy? I like to sweep my opponent's leading leg to force him to lift his leg up. When he does that, he can't punch me, and I'm safe.

I'm saving sweeps for later on. The way that I spar is that I use 2 or 3 techniques for the entire session. I don't mix things up much when I spar. When my opponent figures me out then I have to learn another application for the technique or learn another way to set up the technique.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Try to use your stick to "roll" along your shin bone.

I pass on that one

 

[Damien]

Sounds like you had a good time, and have a very good objective view on things. Can only mean you'll get better!

Your definitely not the only one on the noticing strikes thing. One thing I'm working on getting back into sparring after years off is perceiving kicks fast enough. I used to use an oblique kick to check them all the time, but so far I've mostly just been eating them! 😂Luckily my legs can take a good beating.

On a related note I tried out Jin Ji Du Li as way to reduce impact on the legs on Monday, seemed to work pretty well. My lead leg was slightly sore after taking power leg shots from a guy that's probably got 40kg on me for 15-20 minutes in the class before. The rather worn out soft kick shield didn't help that much! Despite that none of the kicks I took in sparring hurt. Needs more investigation, and some direct testing with a drill, comparing it to a Thai check, but I could be on to something.

Stage 2 is then countering with it, but I need to be careful I don't get the other guy in the groin!

 

[JowGaWolf]

On a related note I tried out Jin Ji Du Li as way to reduce impact on the legs on Monday, seemed to work pretty well. My lead leg was slightly sore after taking power leg shots from a guy that's probably got 40kg on me for 15-20 minutes in the class before.

My thoughts on this is that in the form it trains the lifting of the knee. In application it's the same movement used for kneeing people and for the front kick. I think Jin Ji Du trains that and builds up the strength that's needed to quickly lift the knee, hold it in place for a hot second and remain balanced.

I do use Jin Ki Du Li as a cover for round house kicks that are waist high. It tends to look like the guy be low. The one thing that all of these have in common is the ability to lift the knee.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Despite that none of the kicks I took in sparring hurt. Needs more investigation, and some direct testing with a drill, comparing it to a Thai check, but I could be on to something.

My guess is that anything that requires raising the knee will benefit from doing Jin Ji Du Li

This exercise may yield the same result if the stance was held longer. The reason I'm positing this video is to show some similarities involving exericses tho lift the knee.

 

[Damien]

My thoughts on this is that in the form it trains the lifting of the knee. In application it's the same movement used for kneeing people and for the front kick. I think Jin Ji Du trains that and builds up the strength that's needed to quickly lift the knee, hold it in place for a hot second and remain balanced.

I do use Jin Ki Du Li as a cover for round house kicks that are waist high. It tends to look like the guy be low. The one thing that all of these have in common is the ability to lift the knee.
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Yeah as a general movement, I'm pretty sure "Jin Ji Du Li" was just developed as a short hand way to say, stand on one leg and lift your other knee up. There's so much in a simple movement, and it's potential for further action that I don't think you can class it as a single technique or even as a stance in the same way as most of the others. At some point soon I'm gunna do a video about it, but wanted to get a good feel for how the closed position compares to Thai checks first, and maybe some footage of it in use sparring.

Of course by my own definition, the Thai check is Jin Ji Du Li! But they tend to put a strong emphasis on the pulling back of the toes in line with the foot that you don't see in Shaolin.

 

[JowGaWolf]

At some point soon I'm gunna do a video about it, but wanted to get a good feel for how the closed position compares to Thai checks first, and maybe some footage of it in use sparring.

I would be interesting to see your results. One thing I keep in mind is that just because I get one outcome doesn't mean that someone won't get another one.

Of course by my own definition, the Thai check is Jin Ji Du Li! But they tend to put a strong emphasis on the pulling back of the toes in line with the foot that you don't see in Shaolin.

For me that's where injury occurs where the kick lands on my foot with it pointed vs when I pull it up, maybe that's why the foot is angled when pointing the toes?

Well keep exploring and let me know what you discover.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

My thoughts on this is that in the form it trains the lifting of the knee. In application it's the same movement used for kneeing people and for the front kick. I think Jin Ji Du trains that and builds up the strength that's needed to quickly lift the knee, hold it in place for a hot second and remain balanced.

The golden rooster stance is not only used to block a kick.

The knee lift can be used to life your opponent's body off the ground.

 

[JowGaWolf]

The golden rooster stance is not only used to block a kick.

The knee lift can be used to life your opponent's body off the ground.

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And that's why you are my "Brother from another mother." lol. Just in a few pages so many doors have been opened about one simple stance, the more that comes out the more it makes since to have it in a form that's supposed to be passed through the generations. Remove the guy being picked up from the picture and take the shape of the application. Now ask people what is the function, many would say that it's a knee strike. But people who have actually used the stance like that will recognize it easily. This is why experiencing martial arts through application is so important.

You always ways have something to make people think.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The "knee lift" can be used to couter many leg skill attack. When your opponent uses front cut, inner hook, outer hook, ... against your leading leg, you can use your back leg to lift his attacking leg up as a counter.

In this clip, when your opponent uses left leg to front cut your left leading leg, you can use your right leg to lift under his left attacking leg.

To use the knee lift to counter the front cut is part of the ACSCA 3rd degree black belt test (SC doesn't teach counter technique to beginners).



This is knee lift solo training. If you use knee to lift your opponent's upper leg and pull his head back at the same time, you can throw him backward. Let your opponent to sit on your upper leg as a bench.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

In another thread, someone suggested that MA training should target toward non-skilled opponents. When that happen, many valuable counter skills will disappear from the face of the earth.

 

[Damien]

So I met up with my local martial arts buddy today and we played around with thai checks, blocking with the shin, vs compressing with a tight jin ji du li and just taking the kick on the leg. Like the image below but tighter:

We didn't go super hard as the floor was a bit slippery, but hard enough that you could feel the impact.

We each had a go receiving kicks and came to the same conclusions:
- Maintaining balance was different, but neither was worse.
-Thai checks were better for aggressive action to disrupt the other persons balance
-A tight low JJDL offered the knee as a threat; you didn't want to kick that
-JJDL hurt a lot less. My shins are not super hard, but they're OK. With one person (kicker) in shin guards and the other not, you could definitely feel the impact through them on the thai check, JJDL was no problem at all
-JJDL is easier to pull off as you have more time before you need to react; it is a much faster movement
-JJDL gives opportunities to counter with that lifted leg more easily than a thai check

Having done it a few times in sparring, and now having done some direct comparison, I'm gunna pretty much leave the thai check going forwards in sparring. I'll still practice it in drills, and maybe occasionally I'll look to get aggressive with it, but I much prefer JJDL.

At some point in the near future I'll put a video out on JJDL, as its the one major Shaolin stance I've not done yet, so there will be some footage of us trying stuff out in there.

I definitely recommend giving it a go.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

When doing the golden rooster stance, the higher that you can raise your knee toward your chest, the better (you can kick higher).

 

[Alan0354]

When doing the golden rooster stance, the higher that you can raise your knee toward your chest, the better (you can kick higher).

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That's what TKD emphasize, high knee before kicking. That's what I have been concentrate on doing front kicks lately. I don't do rooster stance, but I make sure I pick up the knee high before kicking. We practice hold onto the wall, do the kick in slow motion and hold the kick up high.

I just tried the rooster stance, it hurts my back, so I am not going to insist on it. I definitely can pick up and hold(short time right now) with thigh pass horizontal, not quite as high as the picture though. I'll wait until my back gets better to try it again.

 

[Damien]

When doing the golden rooster stance, the higher that you can raise your knee toward your chest, the better (you can kick higher).

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It depends on what you're trying to do. Jin Ji Du Li can have a lower knee. That high position is less effective in terms of blocking a kick as the kick may just go under and hit your other leg, or if it hits the lifted leg, you've not created a large surface area for it to hit, distributing the impact.

Funnily enough, I'm pretty sure that's a picture of someone I know.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

It depends on what you're trying to do. Jin Ji Du Li can have a lower knee. That high position is less effective in terms of blocking a kick as the kick may just go under and hit your other leg, or if it hits the lifted leg, you've not created a large surface area for it to hit, distributing the impact.

Besides to use your leg to block a kick as you have described, you can also raise your leg high enough to escape your opponent's foot sweep.

From an offensive point of view, the higher that you can lift your knee, the more power that you can generate to throw your opponent.

 

[Alan0354]

It depends on what you're trying to do. Jin Ji Du Li can have a lower knee. That high position is less effective in terms of blocking a kick as the kick may just go under and hit your other leg, or if it hits the lifted leg, you've not created a large surface area for it to hit, distributing the impact.

Funnily enough, I'm pretty sure that's a picture of someone I know.

I cannot speak anything other stuffs. He's talking about kicking, it is correct the higher you raise your knee, the higher you can kick with power. I am sure it will help knee strikes also.