Awesome Kung Fu Kick used in MMA

JowGaWolf

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I finally found the correct application of the kick that I'm talking about in another in another posts and I feel this technique deserves a post of it's one.. There are two kicks that I see here. One is a stomp, the other is the shin kick that I was talking about about. I won't call it an "oblique kick" because it's not called The irony of the kick that is it's a TMA kick straight out of Kung Fu. Joe Rogan says kung fu doesn't work, but you can't get anymore kung fu than this kick. Joe Rogan gave it a name, but

Rampage made this comment "It should be called the illegal kick. It should be banned and it shows a lot about the fighter's character that he would throw it. How would he like it if somebody threw it at him and stopped him working for a year? I thought it was an illegal move. I think spinning elbows should be illegal too because they land on the back of the head. But I appreciate a good fight, a good scrap, I just wonder which rule fighters will bend next."

Irony about that statement is that Kung Fu practitioners for years have been talking about the dangers of Kung Fu Techniques. As damaging this kick is. Jon Jones is fairly accurate with this kick and if he really wanted to break the knee then he could. I remember topics about the importance of stance training and I can tell you this is one of the valid reasons why someone should practice stances. If a person takes a boxer stance then they are asking for a broken knee and the end of their career. I often use this kick to demonstrate the importance of the stances by letting students kick my knee. Yep. You heard me. I let them kick my knee and I can come out of the kick with no injury other than a normal bruise if that much.

Fighting a fighter like this means that you have to fight in a TMA fighting stance failure to do so is like failure to blocking. The TMA stance protects the knees but the kick will still destroy the shin. The impact from receiving this kick to the shine causes the calf muscle to shoot off the shin causing damage to the front shin and the the calf muscle where it connects to the bone. Jon Jones is good with it, but it doesn't look like he knows how to connect power to it because it can be strong enough to break a shin especially if enough weight is on the front leg.

The kick below is also a Traditional Kung Fu kick. The title says it's a flying kick to the knee but it's not a flying kick. It's a falling one which is why it's so devastating when it lands.

A lot of kicks that MMA people call stomps are modified front kicks and side kicks. Personally I wish they give Kung Fu the credit or at the very least the credit to another TMA that uses the same kick and call it by the appropriate name. The other part of me doesn't care, because as long as they think of the technique as a stomp, they'll fail to actually do the technique with real power.
 
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JowGaWolf

JowGaWolf

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Other videos and pictures with this kick
Hung gar kung fu. 1:49

Wing Chun
Photo_Sifu_Keith_wooden_dummy_kick_old_black_and_white_crop_c-2-329x423.jpg


yip-man-dummy-kick.jpg


Another Kung Fu School
Low kicks during Shaolin class basic training
Fall 1998, Cupertino, CA Source AHKFS Photo Gallery
low_kick.jpg


General kung fu picture showing kick with foot turn outward

jaat-tactic-one.jpg

My thought about kung fu techniques in general is that the more effective the techniques were, the more we'll see them not only in Kung Fu but also in other martial arts systems. The problem with many TMA schools is that they demo themselves to death or they only do forms, which is actually good, because those who are big on forms help to keep the technique alive and those who are willing to fight help keep the application of those techniques alive. Unfortunately there are very few TMA practictioners that actually risks the punches to the face and failing with the techniques, which means that people like this (and their are a lot of them) get the technique and application wrong. By the way there is no way in the work you can do this type of kick to the shin and then suddenly turn it to a side kick. It's stuff like this that gives kung fu a bad name.

This type of shin kick is a power kick and is one of the kicks that I often see WC practitioners incorrectly deploy
 

drop bear

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And yet you don't find mma guys hobbling around with broken knees.


They are probably doing it wrong.
 
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JowGaWolf

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And yet you don't find mma guys hobbling around with broken knees.


They are probably doing it wrong.
That's not why. The kicks are targeted above the knee where the thigh and knee connect and on the shin and not actually on the knee. If you watch the videos you will see this very clearly. Rampage Jackson's concern is actually a valid one, because all it takes is for someone with no control to do the kick to break the knee. It's similar to not letting kids and adults practice this move on each other because many lack the control. Just recently in my school the instructor told an adult student to heel kick him in the stomach. When she tried the kick struck him in his groin. No Control. Now imagine someone with no control of that technique trying to kick the top of the knee on a moving target with force.

The validity is simple, would you let kids train this kick on each other or an adult with no control practice this technique with force on your leg while moving? Even when I tell students to kick my knee, I always stay stand still and get into the proper stance that protects me from injury.
"Some fighters, like Jacob Volkmann, state that the strike causes no serious injury and that it only serves to irritate the opponent. He believes that the only risk to a straight knee would be to the spraining posterior capsule or straining poplateal muscle. Frank Trigg, who carries an expert opinion as a pioneer, believes it is not dangerous nor dirty." Source same as below.

MMA Push kicks to the knee should be banned Source Why Push Kicks to the Knees Should Be Banned
"To be fair to both of these legends, they have never hurt an opponent with it and often seem to be aiming for the lower thigh above the knee which would not hyper-extend the knee backwards."

The kick is powerful enough to break a bat so breaking a knee that's held by tendons and ligaments wouldn't be a problem. I have personal experience with this kick both on the receiving and giving end.
rugbykneeinjury_thumb_original_crop_exact.jpg


A person has no clue until they receive one of these kicks. There's 2 things I won't do anymore in my kung fu class because of the damage the techniques cause. That small punch to the stomach that a took a few months back and these kicks. We will still train these kicks but not with force like I did when I was testing to see if the shin pads offered enough protection.
 
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JowGaWolf

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This is an example of how fragile a knee is.


In both cases the force that cause the hyperextension was far less than someone kicking your knee in.
 

Buka

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I'm sorry, I just don't get it. It's a leg kick. Sometimes used as a check. Like any other kick done properly at the right time, it' works really well. I like it, but I like everything that works.
 

KangTsai

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The oblique kick used in MMA is derived from muay Thai and flying kicks generally come from people with heavy taekwondo backgrounds. You really can't wish for credit when it's a relatively shared move across different arts. There are almost no MMA fighters deriving their methods from king fu, with some very big exceptions (Michael "Venom" Page - kung fu, taekwondo and freestyle kickboxing background; spectacular finishes).

Also, in many cases, I block the oblique kick by raising my knee.
 

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I'm sorry, I just don't get it. It's a leg kick. Sometimes used as a check. Like any other kick done properly at the right time, it' works really well. I like it, but I like everything that works.

The leg is quite a large area with lots of different targets to choose from. A low kick to the thigh is likely to give your opponent a dead leg for maybe an hour and then they are fine. Do that same kick to the knee and they may not be able to ever walk again.
 

Buka

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The leg is quite a large area with lots of different targets to choose from. A low kick to the thigh is likely to give your opponent a dead leg for maybe an hour and then they are fine. Do that same kick to the knee and they may not be able to ever walk again.

I couldn't agree more.

I confess, I have a thing about knees. I won't spar, compete or train with anyone or anything that involves kicks to the knees. I have of course, far to often actually, and have always trained everyone in everything having to do concerning strikes to the knees. But if you kick my knees I'm just going to kill you, plain and simple. So won't anyone I've trained. Yes, I know it's wrong, I don't care, I really don't. I consider it the same thing as if you pulled a gun.

What can I say, I'm an A-hole. But if you kick my knees, even once, you're a dead A-hole. And, yes, I make that point quite clear before anything having to do with sparring, training or fighting. And, I am, if nothing else, a man of my word.
 

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The oblique kick used in MMA is derived from muay Thai and flying kicks generally come from people with heavy taekwondo backgrounds. You really can't wish for credit when it's a relatively shared move across different arts. There are almost no MMA fighters deriving their methods from king fu, with some very big exceptions (Michael "Venom" Page - kung fu, taekwondo and freestyle kickboxing background; spectacular finishes).

Also, in many cases, I block the oblique kick by raising my knee.
I agree with this part "You really can't wish for credit when it's a relatively shared move across different arts", but disagree with the rest. For certain fighters, the oblique kick used in MMA is derived from Muay Thai, but as you stated in your next sentence "You can't really wish for credit when it's a relatively shared move across different arts". And there are plenty of fighters who use some form of kung fu/san shou or another.
 

drop bear

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The leg is quite a large area with lots of different targets to choose from. A low kick to the thigh is likely to give your opponent a dead leg for maybe an hour and then they are fine. Do that same kick to the knee and they may not be able to ever walk again.

You can crank a knee with a round kick. It still puts torque on the knee. Potentually more than an oblique kick.

People will throw both at me and everyone I train with.

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drop bear

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That's not why. The kicks are targeted above the knee where the thigh and knee connect and on the shin and not actually on the knee. If you watch the videos you will see this very clearly. Rampage Jackson's concern is actually a valid one, because all it takes is for someone with no control to do the kick to break the knee. It's similar to not letting kids and adults practice this move on each other because many lack the control. Just recently in my school the instructor told an adult student to heel kick him in the stomach. When she tried the kick struck him in his groin. No Control. Now imagine someone with no control of that technique trying to kick the top of the knee on a moving target with force.

The validity is simple, would you let kids train this kick on each other or an adult with no control practice this technique with force on your leg while moving? Even when I tell students to kick my knee, I always stay stand still and get into the proper stance that protects me from injury.
"Some fighters, like Jacob Volkmann, state that the strike causes no serious injury and that it only serves to irritate the opponent. He believes that the only risk to a straight knee would be to the spraining posterior capsule or straining poplateal muscle. Frank Trigg, who carries an expert opinion as a pioneer, believes it is not dangerous nor dirty." Source same as below.

MMA Push kicks to the knee should be banned Source Why Push Kicks to the Knees Should Be Banned
"To be fair to both of these legends, they have never hurt an opponent with it and often seem to be aiming for the lower thigh above the knee which would not hyper-extend the knee backwards."

The kick is powerful enough to break a bat so breaking a knee that's held by tendons and ligaments wouldn't be a problem. I have personal experience with this kick both on the receiving and giving end.
rugbykneeinjury_thumb_original_crop_exact.jpg


A person has no clue until they receive one of these kicks. There's 2 things I won't do anymore in my kung fu class because of the damage the techniques cause. That small punch to the stomach that a took a few months back and these kicks. We will still train these kicks but not with force like I did when I was testing to see if the shin pads offered enough protection.

It is targeted above the knee because in bare feet you are more likely to break your foot than their knee.

We even face a version of that tackle.

 
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drop bear

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I couldn't agree more.

I confess, I have a thing about knees. I won't spar, compete or train with anyone or anything that involves kicks to the knees. I have of course, far to often actually, and have always trained everyone in everything having to do concerning strikes to the knees. But if you kick my knees I'm just going to kill you, plain and simple. So won't anyone I've trained. Yes, I know it's wrong, I don't care, I really don't. I consider it the same thing as if you pulled a gun.

What can I say, I'm an A-hole. But if you kick my knees, even once, you're a dead A-hole. And, yes, I make that point quite clear before anything having to do with sparring, training or fighting. And, I am, if nothing else, a man of my word.

I am the same with punches to the face. Actually as I cant kill everyone in the room. I don't really have that luxury.
 

Hanzou

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Joe Rogan is right, Kung Fu doesn't work in MMA, and one kick that is also present in several martial arts doesn't change that.

When I start seeing someone using the Mantis grip, the Bagua Palm strikes, Crane Beak, or even fighting from those extreme Kung Fu stances, I'll believe that Kung Fu works in the cage.
 
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Of course it doesnt work in the cage or mma...it wasn't design for sports like the mma. It was designed to cripple people or as a stop. If it works in the ring or sport. I try not to focus to much on it. I have no desire to water down my ability.

But thats just me.
 

Hanzou

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Of course it doesnt work in the cage or mma...it wasn't design for sports like the mma. It was designed to cripple people or as a stop. If it works in the ring or sport. I try not to focus to much on it. I have no desire to water down my ability.

But thats just me.

And yet when those non-sport arts end up actually utilizing their abilities in a fighting format, they end up looking almost exactly like the more sportive styles (only worse).

 
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JowGaWolf

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The oblique kick used in MMA is derived from muay Thai and flying kicks generally come from people with heavy taekwondo backgrounds.
It's not derived from Muay Thai the kick is found in systems older than Muay Thai same as the "flying kick" that he's doing. Both those kicks are in systems that are older than Taekwondo and Muay Thai.

Also, in many cases, I block the oblique kick by raising my knee.
This kick is extremely fast and doesn't give you a chance to raise your leg when it's done. It's not a kick that you want to just throw out there when you feel like it. It's a kick that takes weight distribution of the opponent into consideration. You can't raise the leg that you are standing on and because of that you won't get a chance to raise your leg to block it.

It is targeted above the knee because in bare feet you are more likely to break your foot than their knee.
You only will hurt your foot if the knee is bent and it requires that the knee have some significant bend in it. In addition the kick is done using the heel. In the the picture I posted with the group of students doing the kick the kick is targeting the shin. You can also see the distinctive way the foot is turn. The reason why the foot is turned this way is that the heel of the foot strikes the target. Most people you see on youtube trying to do this kick tend to kick the shin the same way that one would kick a soccer ball with the inside of the foot. The same kick can be targeted as high as the kicker's waist. Most people stand in a high stance because it allows it's easier to move around, that same highstance does not have enough bend in the knee to protect it.

When I start seeing someone using the Mantis grip, the Bagua Palm strikes, Crane Beak, or even fighting from those extreme Kung Fu stances, I'll believe that Kung Fu works in the cage.
You have already seen me use successfully use the extreme kung fu stances during free sparring to defend against a possible shoot. I don't do mantis nor bagua so I can't help you there. I do Crane beak, but the one I practice is a groin strike so I can't use that during sparring (we don't spar with cups unless it's intense sparring). We already have Buka, Rampage Jackson complaining about kicks to the knee. I'm sure a Crane beak to the privates wouldn't be welcomed.

And yet when those non-sport arts end up actually utilizing their abilities in a fighting format, they end up looking almost exactly like the more sportive styles (only worse).
Everyone doesn't look like this guy. If a TMA practitioner looks and performs like the sportive styles instead of the style that he trains then it's because that person doesn't train the techniques in a free sparring context. My sparring doesn't look like the sportive styles that you speak of. Out of all of the Martial Arts practitioners out there, I'm not the only one that trains the techniques in free sparring.
 
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And yet when those non-sport arts end up actually utilizing their abilities in a fighting format, they end up looking almost exactly like the more sportive styles (only worse).

Poor example.
And yet when those non-sport arts end up actually utilizing their abilities in a fighting format, they end up looking almost exactly like the more sportive styles (only worse).

Which one is the mma guy and which is the Kung fu guy. They both look like crap.

Look, mma was designed for sport, and came from sport. Thats what it will always be. I have yet to see proper structure when an mma guy fights. Basically, its kickboxing with a lot of ground fighting and grappling added. Its nothing new.
 
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