Master not registering students with kkw
- Thread starter Rumy73
- Start date
StudentCarl
3rd Black Belt
Has the master made any promises or commitments that can be used to hold him/her to account legally? If the master has KKW rank, I suggest contacting them as well. I'm told that they don't take well to people using their name fraudulently.
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Earl Weiss
Senior Master
A method of "persuasion" could be thus: 1. A discussion with the "Master" that the paperwork must have gotten lost in transit since you checked with the KKW and they don't have it. Follow it with a letter confirmng the discussion and keep a dated copy. 2. If needed, after 28 days advise him that the KKW still does not have it and he must have forgotten. 3. If needed after 28 days advise that the KKW still has not gotten it and failure to submit will be treated as a fraudulent misrepresentation and you will file a consumer fraud complaint with your local prosecuter and State Attorney General. Use your papperwork from 1&2 to support your claim.
That would help get one's money back but would not help get the kkw registration.
Takai
Senior Master
True but, it would certainly help to pay for the next time you have to take the test.
Gwai Lo Dan
3rd Black Belt
Provided the Master is indeed registered with the KKW, I think he would get the hint by the 2nd letter of what will come, and would get the student registered rather than pay back the hundreds of dollars.
The "why did he not deliver the KKW cert?" question is one that may never come. Dan, your question is certainly a possibility. He may not have the ability to provide KKW rank. Master Weiss' thoughts on recovering your money seem solid. But I'm not sure there's anything that would compel this, or any master from delivering a specific cert. I would think a successful small claims court settlement in your favor would only compel him to refund money, not produce the promised item (especially if he doesn't have the ability to produce). Are you his senior student? If not, have the other BB's in this dojang received KKW certs.?
Earl Weiss
Senior Master
My suggestion has a two fold purpose. If the Master is able to get the cert., and if he has any sense he will promptly process the paperwork or face criminal action. The consumer fraud complaint I suggest would be to pursue the criminal action. A. It doesn't cost anything; and B. Many fraudsters are not afraid of small civil claims. Typicaly the biggest downside is re paying what they took plus some court costs and that may be difficult to collect. The idea of being taken away in handcuffs and getting locked up, even for a short time can be very persuasive, plus the notoriaty tends to put an end to the activity in that location and local authorities may pull the business license if there is a conviction.
He is registered, or at least was. I am guessing he may be pocketing the money.
Was this the school that you and I have discussed previously?
PM me if you'd like.
ralphmcpherson
Senior Master
Does he tell students they will get kkw rank? I have heard of instances where a student has just assumed they will get kkw rank just because the instructor does. My GM and instructor have kkw rank (from years ago) and they do not issue kkw rank but make this quite clear upon joining our club.
Yes, he charges separately for it.
oftheherd1
Senior Master
I saw this happen about 15-20 years ago in Woodbridge, VA. It happened to a couple of students I had at the time. A new teacher came in and bought the school. The student's contract covered any remaining training and testing fees, and registration. The new teacher apparently never submitted their 4th Dan certifications. Fortunately, two of the students had kept in touch with the former teacher. When repeated attempts to get the new teacher to submit for the 4th Dan were in vain, the old teacher stepped in and submitted the necessary paperwork. That anecdote won't help Rumy73.
Is there a regional association that covers the area where your school is, and is your teacher a member.
Is there a regional association that covers the area where your school is, and is your teacher a member.
oftheherd1
Senior Master
In that case, I would certainly consider documenting your attempts to get your KKW rank and any court action that might be needed. The suggestion to contact the KKW might be a good idea too. I would not think they would take kindly to that. Whether they will be inclined to do much about it is another question.
