martial arts taught in public schools

[Kacey]

I would like to see it mandatory in the school system. I believe it would help improve the bully situation by giving the victims better physical abilities and a confidence boost. I also think (or hope) that the bullies would gain a new insight in terms of respect for others. Unfortunately, I don't think it would ever materialize.

I understand your viewpoint as well; unfortunately, bullies can also make use of MA against those they bully. If everyone takes MA, then the playing field remains basically level. Yes, good MA instructors teach the moral component as well as the physical; however, even in such cases, the moral component tends to lag behind the physical.

As both a teacher and a TKD instructor, I would love to see MA introduced into schools, possibly even as an activity for students who are being bullied - but having seen both bullies and bullied, I think the moral component would pass many of the bullies by, and having been a somewhat shy bookworm who did poorly in PE in school, I don't think I would have tried any MA if given the option, and would have done the minimum required (as I did with gymnastics when it came up in the PE curriculum) if it were mandatory. I chose to start TKD when I was 20, but much before that, I don't think it would have been effective - I would not have been ready to take it, nor would I have wanted to be forced into such an activity.

As far as a contrast to team sports goes, well, many of the same students who excel in team sports would excel in MAs, and for the same reasons - coordination, strength, etc. - and would still leave those who do not have those skills behind. Sure, some students would do better with MA than more traditional PE curricula, and some students who excel at team sports would do less well in MA than in team sports, but overall, I don't think it would change the status quo much.

Working, as I do, in a middle school with a wide range of incomes, religions, ethnicities (nearly 1/3 of the school qualifies as English Language Learners one way or another, and at last check there were 15 languages besides English represented among the students), I can also foresee parental objections based on religious concepts (anything from meditation to fighting, which many religions object to on principle), on the basis of gender (my daughter shouldn't have to learn to fight, my son shouldn't have to fight girls, etc.), and so on - all of which I have seen as a TKD instructor, and/or heard about when the occasional girl wants to join the wrestling team, or the occasional boy wants to join volleyball.

It's a great idea in concept - but in reality, I don't think it would work as part of the PE curriculum, unless you started the kids really young and kept it going through high school, and there aren't enough instructors for that. Starting any older and making it mandatory raises other problems. There are too many confounding factors.

 

[jks9199]

The problem with team sports then, and now, is that they come with a prepackaged `star system' where the golden boys and girls form a tight little clique at court center, and the less talented fan out from that center in increasing radii of decreasing talent. Which is fine, as long as you're given a chance to find the thing you're good at, instead of being forced to occupy sixth wheel status and constant reminders of just how useless you are at, say, bat/ball games, which I was—never had the hand/eye coordination for batting, throwing or catching. But it turned out I had good eye/hand coordination for raquet games like tennis and table tennis, and other stuff as well. They just weren't available then in grade school. I understand that things have changed...

And, more and more, that core of stars is selected by getting involved and coached earlier and earlier. Very few guys today go out for freshman football as their first organized exposure to football. It can be even more competitive in sports like basketball or soccer...

And, yes, there are parents who do the same thing with their kids in martial arts, too!

 

[exile]

And, more and more, that core of stars is selected by getting involved and coached earlier and earlier. Very few guys today go out for freshman football as their first organized exposure to football. It can be even more competitive in sports like basketball or soccer...

And, yes, there are parents who do the same thing with their kids in martial arts, too!

Absolutely, jks, no question that this is the way things are going—the golden boys and girs are way more golden than they were when I was in grade school back in the 50s and 60s. What you're saying here ties in with Kacey's point:

As far as a contrast to team sports goes, well, many of the same students who excel in team sports would excel in MAs, and for the same reasons - coordination, strength, etc. - and would still leave those who do not have those skills behind. Sure, some students would do better with MA than more traditional PE curricula, and some students who excel at team sports would do less well in MA than in team sports, but overall, I don't think it would change the status quo much.

So I want to make it clear what I was getting at. I think the great thing about the MAs is not that they give the less-skilled an even chance against the athletically gifted—no way that could happen! The difference is between the culture of team sports and the team as a kind of stratified society, with the natural athletes lording it over their less-gifted teammates, as vs. the more solitary nature of the competition in individual sports—yes, you may lose to a superior athlete, but you aren't walking around feeling like the village idiot all the time, the way a lot of kids who get `chosen last', as we used to say, do. If you're on a middle school baseball team and you blow an easy pop fly, your `teammates' will make sure to let you know just how useless you are; if you're sparring with an opponent in a karate match at the same level and you make a mistake, OK, you lose, but there's no team structure with the gifted players looking at you (and maybe talking to you) with that casual cruelty and contempt that kids so easily aim at other kids. I've observed this sort of thing in my own school experience but still more intensely in what I've see happen to friends' children in school.

Individual sports aren't a panacea, I'd never claim anything like that—but they do give the child a kind of relief from the cruel social pressure that team sports impose just by virtue of the fact that the child is on a team.

 

[Tez3]

I have to say this thread brought back some horrible school memories!

 

[exile]

I have to say this thread brought back some horrible school memories!

Sorry, Tez—I know just what you mean (though I was lucky, compared to some of the poor sods I knew back then...) I remember reading Lord of the Flies in high school and thinking, what, this is supposed to be a revelation? That kids, left to their own devices behave to each other with all the kindness of the prison guards in a Siberian gulag? And the sports scene is where it really came out...

...but enough of that—here we are and we did OK, eh?

 

[Drac]

I have to say this thread brought back some horrible school memories!

Same here Tez3...

 

[hemi]

I have to say this thread brought back some horrible school memories!

Yes put one more in that category. Seems if you grew up in TX and didn’t play football you were no one. Not the best four years of my life but hey some of what happened then, pushed me toward martial arts. Something good came out of that time.

 

[Drac]

but hey some of what happened then, pushed me toward martial arts. Something good came out of that time.

Same here...That is the ONLY good thing that came out of Jr and Sr High for me...I LOVE your new avitar...

 

[hemi]

Same here...That is the ONLY good thing that came out of Jr and Sr High for me...I LOVE your new avitar...

LOL Thanks, running with scissors kind of reminds me of high school.

 

[Drac]

LOL Thanks, running with scissors kind of reminds me of high school.

We heard that almost daily in elementary school...

 

[terryl965]

Yes put one more in that category. Seems if you grew up in TX and didn’t play football you were no one. Not the best four years of my life but hey some of what happened then, pushed me toward martial arts. Something good came out of that time.

I certainly understand that Hemi

 

[CuongNhuka]

Then why in other countries M/A was introduced to the schools many years ago. It is not only self defence but an exersise program also. M/A should not be looked at as a gift something only the right person can learn. Young people have less control of there emotions Thats a given. But when respect is learned they learn much more control. Toady we see an increase in out of conditioned youth, higher rates of violance by youth. Just lifting a youths spirit can change how they react. It has been many years since M/A was trained for the battle field as a strong source Sure hand to hand combat includes it but M/A is far removed from war now days. Guns, planes, bombs , and ships are main stay war machines. Chuck norris introduced and Idead several years ago. It has helped many a youth go on and lead productive lifes. Care, trying, And wanting to reach out and help starts something. That something Can not help all people but helps so many its worth the trying. Not just M/A but any program that improves youth is worth doing. Most M/A type are not abusing what they have learned Most credit there training on how it helped them in many phases of there life. People who know how to fight ,fight much less then others because they feel less a need to prove there self and are much more in control of there anger.

true, but my experience tells me it is smarter not to risk it. the road to heck is paved with good intensions, so they say.

 

[CuongNhuka]

I would like to see it mandatory in the school system. I believe it would help improve the bully situation by giving the victims better physical abilities and a confidence boost. I also think (or hope) that the bullies would gain a new insight in terms of respect for others. Unfortunately, I don't think it would ever materialize.

thats a good idea. but bullys could just as easily get a hold of it. and i then i go back my statement of it being a weapon.

 

[shifu]

Hi all,

I teach martial arts in the local Primary School and have been doing so for over a year now. It has had a marked effect on the kids I teach. It has improved their confidence, self esteem and general fitness. The kids I teach are well behaved and appreciative of the time I spend with them. Overall I would say it has value.

 

[Drac]

It has improved their confidence, self esteem and general fitness. The kids I teach are well behaved and appreciative of the time I spend with them. Overall I would say it has value.

It was done over here at some school whose name I cannot recall...Students knew that if they screwed up at far as disciplinary actions, homework assignments etc..etc.. they were no longer permitted to take the in school MA and had to return to regular PE classes..

 

[Kacey]

Hi all,

I teach martial arts in the local Primary School and have been doing so for over a year now. It has had a marked effect on the kids I teach. It has improved their confidence, self esteem and general fitness. The kids I teach are well behaved and appreciative of the time I spend with them. Overall I would say it has value.

I don't think anyone is disputing the benefits - only voicing concerns over possible consequences of requiring students to take MA instead of other PE curricula.

It was done over here at some school whose name I cannot recall...Students knew that if they screwed up at far as disciplinary actions, homework assignments etc..etc.. they were no longer permitted to take the in school MA and had to return to regular PE classes..

And this points out the key factor, I think - that it is voluntary and there is a "regular PE class" for them to return to.

 

[Drac]

And this points out the key factor, I think - that it is voluntary and there is a "regular PE class" for them to return to.

Yes...

 

[shinbushi]

I would have NO PROBLEM with it...It would beat being forced to spend hours doing push ups, sit ups, running etc..etc..while being berated about your weight and lack of coordination by some sadistic former jock now a PE Instructor to whom football is a religion and a lack of interest in it denotes a lack of masculinity..

The nerd inside you is showing. The best way to be proficient in any physical activity is conditioning. And all the above activities, including being chewed out by a caring coach should still be included in a good martial art program

 

[CuongNhuka]

Hi all,

I teach martial arts in the local Primary School and have been doing so for over a year now. It has had a marked effect on the kids I teach. It has improved their confidence, self esteem and general fitness. The kids I teach are well behaved and appreciative of the time I spend with them. Overall I would say it has value.

ounds good, but I still think it wouldn't work here in the states. Aren't crime rates a lot lower in Australia then the U.S?

 

[Drac]

The best way to be proficient in any physical activity is conditioning. And all the above activities, including being chewed out by a caring coach

You have YOUR beliefs and I have mine..I would love to post you an example of the chewing out by a "caring coach" aka a sadistic brain dead former jock but our censor filter would short out..I walked into my first dojo still a little overweight and NEVER heard an unkind word from Sensei or any of the senior black belts..As my interest in the MA increased THEN I started to become interested in conditioning..