Do you believe Martial Arts should be taught in the public school system?

[SavageMan]

This is a discussion I had on my way to training the other night with my twelve year old daughter and her friend. They were going to sit in on grappling night & watch the old man try to hold his own. They had both seen the new Karate Kid movie and had said just how cool it would be if American schools had martial arts instead of gym class like China, Japan, and Korea. This is really a question for the Western countries given that many of the Asian countries require a martial art as part of their daily schedule. So for all those European friends, Aussies, Canadian buddies and Yanks out there let me know what you think. If you do think it should be in the schools which one, or how many, and why that one. And for anyone out there who has taken a martial art as part of their school curriculum please tell us how it went.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

If you do think it should be in the schools which one, or how many, and why that one. And for anyone out there who has taken a martial art as part of their school curriculum please tell us how it went.

I suspect it would have benefits, but I sincerely doubt it would happen in public schools in the USA. Those days are long gone.

When I was a lad, there was a 22 caliber rifle range in the basement of my grade school, where marksmanship was taught. It was no longer used, and that was in the 1960s. I don't know when it had been last used; the school was built in the early 1900s.

We have gotten to the point where competitive sports are no longer seen as acceptable for in-school physical education (not talking about extracurricular activities such as organized sports). Martial arts training inherently teaches ways to not just defend oneself, but to inflict pain and perhaps injury on others. It would only take one bully applying what he had been taught on a smaller child, and that would be the end of that. Likewise, martial arts training often involves routine injuries; parents in general are intolerant of their child being injured in any way shape or form.

Frankly, we've become a nation of wussies. We do not want our children exposed to competition, being told they are not winners, or risk of injury of any sort. We're a pack of crybaby anti-competitive navel-gazers, destroying our children with nonsensical arguments like 'everybody is a winner' and 'competition is bad' and 'self-defense is not allowed, call the police instead'. We've lost our spirit and lost our way.

 

[elder999]

Martial arts are already taught in public schools: boxing, wrestling, archery and fencing.

I don't see it becoming widespread, but I don't see it being anything but beneficial.

One of the Bujinkan guys in Albuquerque has an extra-curricular program in the public schools that's pretty successful.

 

[Tez3]

Here our public schools are the top fee payiing schools like Eton College,Harrow, Winchester, Marlborough etc, there martial arts are available along with many other sports. In the state schools, there isn't the time nor the money. The public schools are very wealthy and are boarding so have advantages ordinary state and fee paying schools don't have.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Martial arts are already taught in public schools: boxing, wrestling, archery and fencing.

I don't see it becoming widespread, but I don't see it being anything but beneficial.

One of the Bujinkan guys in Albuquerque has an extra-curricular program in the public schools that's pretty successful.

Those are all extracurricular, are they not? I don't see them in any current physical education programs during class time.

 

[elder999]

Here our public schools are the top fee payiing schools like Eton College,Harrow, Winchester, Marlborough etc, there martial arts are available along with many other sports. In the state schools, there isn't the time nor the money. The public schools are very wealthy and are boarding so have advantages ordinary state and fee paying schools don't have.

Here, the "top fee paying schools," are called "private schools," or, in the case of boarding institutions like the one I attended, "prep schools." The "ordinary state" schools are called "public schools." All of them generally have athletic programs, in some cases quite good-and usually have wrestling. Wrestling, archery and fencing were all modules taught in the physical education programs I had in pubic middle school (6,7,&8th grade), and were part of the Los Alamos schools when my kids attended from 1994-2004.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Here our public schools are the top fee payiing schools like Eton College,Harrow, Winchester, Marlborough etc, there martial arts are available along with many other sports. In the state schools, there isn't the time nor the money. The public schools are very wealthy and are boarding so have advantages ordinary state and fee paying schools don't have.

I always find it amusing; in the USA, a 'public' school is one which is provided by tax dollars. A 'private' school is one which parents pay for, traditionally religious, but also military or with specific emphasis on certain subjects or college preparatory. I believe it is the opposite in the UK, isn't it? Funny!

 

[Jenna]

Can anyone comment specifically on what the benefits are in those Asian countries that have long-standing implementions of MA in their school curricula?

 

[Gnarlie]

I know several people in the UK who teach TKD and other MA within the school system. It's been very hard for them to get into, but it's been very successful too. I think martial arts aren't for everyone and incorporation into the school system, though it may feed the growth of a martial art, isn't necessarily healthy for the standard of the art.

When I look at what health and safety regs have done to martial arts over the last 10 years (our UK Dojang now has to have a COSHH Policy, for example), I dread to think what concessions would have to be made in order to get onto school syllabi. Goodbye vital techniques, goodbye pre-emptive striking, goodbye partner exercises, goodbye contact, hello endless padwork and patterns with no real context aaarg.

School martial arts are allegedly part of the historical reason why I see people on this forum arguing whether a block is really a block, or it might be something else. We can do without further 'dumbing down', thanks, things are complicated enough already!

Also, looking at Mr. Mattocks thoughts on bullying from another perspective: a little secret martial arts knowledge is what gives the skinny, underdeveloped kids a chance to defend themselves against the bullies. If everyone has that knowledge, then the skinny kid's advantage is lost.

Plus you get less scrupulous MA instructors using school classes as feeders to their own commercial clubs. This already happens in the UK.

 

[Gnarlie]

Wrestling, archery and fencing were all modules taught in the physical education programs I had in pubic middle school (6,7,&8th grade), and were part of the Los Alamos schools when my kids attended from 1994-2004.

Pubic middle school?! Sounds interesting. :mrtoilet:

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Also, looking at Mr. Mattocks thoughts on bullying from another perspective: a little secret martial arts knowledge is what gives the skinny, underdeveloped kids a chance to defend themselves against the bullies. If everyone has that knowledge, then the skinny kid's advantage is lost.

Interesting point. In any case, I remember school-yard fist-fights well. Some black eyes given and received; a few bruises; once I punched a kid so many times in the head that I could not close my hand around a pencil for a week (I was the one being bullied; I fought back). Imagine if I had known how to punch correctly. Imagine if all of us did. Yikes.

 

[SavageMan]

From what I've been told by my instructor who spent some time in South Korea and a coworker who lived in Japan for a few years it is highly disciplined. Something we have lost in our American schools. Instructors demand respect for themselves, teachers and peers. Our society has to many excuses for that to happen. I would like to see some of political correctness gone and commen sense back. Just getting kids to excersise would be nice. Some physical fitness that envoles something besides dodge ball and a yearly Presidents fitness test. Although the idea of giving any bully an advantage is a sickning thought for me. I went to 11 differnt elementry schools growing up and the new kid is always the first target. MA would have been a blessing. But if the bullies would have had it I doubt I would have made such a good looking senior picture.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Interesting synchronicity; this was just published:

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20120205/NEWS01/202050315

Schoenfeld founded a karate club at the school eight years ago as a way of combating bullying and teaching students to be more sure of themselves and confident in their abilities. The club is open to all students, but Schoenfeld believes that it holds extra purpose for the students in her classroom.

"I encourage all of (my students) to be involved in the club," said Schoenfeld. "Then I have them become leaders and assistants so they can, in the following sessions, show that they can be a leader, too."

 

[Virtual Jim]

I've always excelled at martial arts, but can't throw a football to save my life. Not being able to throw said football has serious social implications for children. One of the benefits of going to a Catholic high school in America was that one elective for physical education was Taekwondo. Now, it was only a month-long episode, but for that short time, for once I was the alpha male and the "jocks" were the uncoordinated dorks. (No, I didn't hold it over them like they held it over me.) While I don't see, pragmatically, how the arts outside of greco-roman wrestling could be taught in schools due to legal reasons, it would be nice for all those like myself from a social hierarchy, and, more importantly, self-confidence point of view.

 

[chinto]

I would love to see Martial arts required for all schools in the USA. I do not mean so much sport martial arts like Olympic tkd, but arts that are designed and taught for self defense. I would want to see the more serious techniques that are likely to result in death taught at high school level. ( yes I can hear the liberal idiots who are in the "no violence ever!! " crowd screaming already at the thought of any kind of contact sport let alone martial arts of any kind ) But, in this day and age it is a matter of personal and national security to have our people able to defend themselves.
Oh and I would bring back marksmanship programs and teams as well! both Pistol and Rifle, small and large bore.

 

[Cyriacus]

Absolutely NOT. The number of People who would learn it to misuse it would be extremely detrimental.
Besides - Nothings stopping them from just going to a Normal MA Outlet.

 

[WCman1976]

I don't see public schools ever getting martial arts classes like kung fu or karate. Hell, my high school didn't even have a wrestling team...yet they could afford to put TVs in the cafeteria. It'd be cool if they had some kind of class, or club, or martial arts teacher on retainer or something like that who taught a martial art ONLY to bullied kids and not the bullies. Then again, a lot of bullies might not take the class anyway. (I remember all the "tough guys" in my high school watching me spar with some of my friends. When we were done, they proceeded to say that the techniques we did were "all bullsh*t.") We may never know because, although there are a LOT of martial arts schools in the Us, I don't see it gaining enough mainstream acceptance to be included that way.

 

[David43515]

I can`t speak for any other Asian countries, but I`ve spent the last 6 years teaching English in Japanese public schools. While there are schools that have different martial arts as extracuricular activities ( I know schools that have karate, kendo, judo, shoriji kenpo,naginatado,AND boxing programs), the only ma offered as part of the phys ed classes are a manditory 8 hours a year of judo. Most of our PE classes are basketball, tumbling,soccer,voleyball, etc. To become a PE teacher I think you have to hold a shodan rank in judo, but most just stick with it long enough to get the job. The judo coaches in our school district are all science, history, and elementary teachers.

The exception would be my brother in law who only taught judo (and coached sumo) at a local university.

 

[Tez3]

The fee paying schools here are called public schools because they are open to anyone who can afford their fees. Only the very top schools are called public schools though, lesser ones are just private or fee paying schools. You need to be very very wealthy to be able to afford public schools especially Eton and Harrow, you have to put your son's name down at moment of birth for them. Still they provide a majority of the world with it's leaders, movers and shakers so it would be worth it.
Martial arts at Eton http://www.etoncollege.com/MartialArts.aspx the fact they include Capoiera in the curriculum of the top boys school in the world may interest some lol!

 

[elder999]

Martial arts at Eton http://www.etoncollege.com/MartialArts.aspx the fact they include Capoiera in the curriculum of the top boys school in the world may interest some lol!

Top boys school in Great Britain, y'mean, dontcha? :lol: