MA Is Ineffective On The Streets??

[MA-Caver]

I saw this ad on MT and clicked on it just "to see what he has to say". Watched the 10 minute video http://www.truthaboutmartialarts.com/TAMAVideopage.html and gave it some thought.

I found some of the things he said agreeable. As a (former) street fighter because I used to be homeless, lived on the streets and used to conduct illegal activities (that I'd rather not talk about) that got me into violent confrontations on more than several occasions.

Some of the things I did not agree with because I do happen to know reputable MA-instructors and know that they do not intentionally hoodwink customers/students as this video implies.
Granted MA McDojos do have this reputation and are in it for the money (not ALL but a good number around the country/world do).

I would think that a legitimate, reputable instructor would have the integrity to let their students know just how effective their chosen art would be out on the street and also have a class or even seminar about how they need to protect themselves from LEGAL ramifications when they use their skills out in the "real world". If they don't... then they SHOULD!
Bringing in a police officer and/or attorney or even a judge to give a talk about what can and cannot be done when using their skills would be a good idea. If anything it will help put it all in perspective for the advancing student as they go through their respective ranks/belts.

An instructor would know to (eventually) teach adrenal response control, the calming of ones self when their bodies (involuntarily) dumps a load of adrenalin into their system and yet they are still in control mentally, physically and emotionally of themselves as they prepare for the confrontation that is in front of them.
As a former street fighter (I've gotten away from that environment and damned glad of it too) I learned over time, how important it was to remain as calm as possible and to fight against the "tunnel vision" the narrator of the video speaks about. Realizing that there is RARELY only ONE attacker and by maintaining as close to a 360 degree bubble of awareness as possible would save one from being in the hospital or morgue.

I am awfully tempted to take this guy's offer and download the vids to see what all he has to say... but I think I would like to get feedback/opinions from the MA-ists on this board. If anything he offers a 60 day money back guarantee so essentially it'll be a free vid.

What say you? Watch the video if you would please before replying. By the way a majority of it is texted (not precisely called captioning) but there are a few other things that he says that are not texted on the video. This was MOST helpful especially since I'm hearing impaired and made it clear as to what he was saying.

Thoughts, comments please. I think it would make for a good discussion.

 

[Kwan Jang]

After viewing his presentation, I felt that though exagerating many facts to sell his course, there is a lot of underlying truth within. Our schools have included adrenal stress training as a basic part of our curriculum for well over a decade. Myself and many of the other instructors are certified tactical instructors and I feel there is much to be learned by ANY martial artist by at least taking some RBSD courses. In fact, it's a mandatory requirement for 3rd dan and above to get at least a mid-level certification in our schools and recommended for all dans. Whether it be Krav, CDT, RAMCAT, LRT, ect., these programs are all a great supplement to your training. Also, it is vital IMO for an instructor to know and convey to his students the laws regarding use of force.

I will say this though, when we first began working with some of the leaders in RBSD in the '90's, they ran through their drills prior to going through their courses and Bill Kipp of Ramcat (w/ his "bulletman" suit) said our group was the most effective regarding adrenal dump that he had ever worked with up to that time. We have evolved quite a bit since that and regularly incorperate many RBSD methods into our general curiculum from beginner levels on up, but what we were doing even prior to this was still pretty effective.

OTOH, if an instructor is only teaching katas (esp. w/o practical application) as filler and only teaching pre-arranged routines with non-resisting partners and maybe mixing in no-contact point sparring, then I might agree with much of this guy's sales pitch. I've known of many black belts who learned how to become "champions at missing" by only training point sparring and can only pull their strikes and can't deliver when they need to. (Disclaimer: I do teach patterns and pre-arranged drills as well, though I put a much heavier emphasis on "alive" drills once the concept the pattern or drill was created for has been learned.) His argument may apply to many McDojos or even some well meaning "traditionalists" or sport karate people who just don't know any better and need to expand their skill set.

 

[MA-Caver]

After viewing his presentation, I felt that though exaggerating many facts to sell his course, there is a lot of underlying truth within. Our schools have included adrenal stress training as a basic part of our curriculum for well over a decade. Myself and many of the other instructors are certified tactical instructors and I feel there is much to be learned by ANY martial artist by at least taking some RBSD courses. In fact, it's a mandatory requirement for 3rd dan and above to get at least a mid-level certification in our schools and recommended for all dans. Whether it be Krav, CDT, RAMCAT, LRT, ect., these programs are all a great supplement to your training. Also, it is vital IMO for an instructor to know and convey to his students the laws regarding use of force.

I will say this though, when we first began working with some of the leaders in RBSD in the '90's, they ran through their drills prior to going through their courses and Bill Kipp of Ramcat (w/ his "bulletman" suit) said our group was the most effective regarding adrenal dump that he had ever worked with up to that time. We have evolved quite a bit since that and regularly incorperate many RBSD methods into our general curiculum from beginner levels on up, but what we were doing even prior to this was still pretty effective.

OTOH, if an instructor is only teaching katas (esp. w/o practical application) as filler and only teaching pre-arranged routines with non-resisting partners and maybe mixing in no-contact point sparring, then I might agree with much of this guy's sales pitch. I've known of many black belts who learned how to become "champions at missing" by only training point sparring and can only pull their strikes and can't deliver when they need to. (Disclaimer: I do teach patterns and pre-arranged drills as well, though I put a much heavier emphasis on "alive" drills once the concept the pattern or drill was created for has been learned.) His argument may apply to many McDojos or even some well meaning "traditionalists" or sport karate people who just don't know any better and need to expand their skill set.

Yes agreed and as I mentioned not all are as naive as the video puts out. But again not exactly an exaggeration, if so it's slight, IMO. My own experiences on the streets will testify to a lot of what the guy is saying. I've seen guys with MA training go up against the average street punk. Invariably it turns out bad or either one but neither one goes away unhurt or unscathed. Even internally, emotionally, mentally it's quite an eye-opening experience and a terrifying one. One's mortality rears up and screams inside an average MA-ists head "WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU'RE DOING?? RUN YOU IDIOT!!" Yet ego, cockiness and over-confidence brings them down. Or if they come out ahead the shakes are from fear rather than the adrenaline dump as they realize just how close they came to dying and being a statistic.
I know a MA family where the eldest child had to use his training (me thinks he was a Blue Belt in EPAK at the time) at school defending a classmate (and enviably himself) from two bullies of the same age. He got suspended but was praised by his family, his instructor and myself for keeping his head and stopping when he needed to and more-so defending someone who could not defend for themselves. Yet he told me later that he was scared deep down inside.

A school that does provide RBSD adrenal-stress training is a good one. Yet I still wouldn't feel the same seeing a guy come at me in a Red Man suit as compared to a thug wearing a tank top, pants hanging loosely around their waist, and their hand slightly hidden back behind them with two or three of his buddies standing very close by.
The guy in a RED MAN suit may come at you with all they got and you can go against them with all YOU got... but it's still-not-quite-the-same thing and the feeling of "this is safe... nobody will get really hurt", mentality is there.

Try this (and it's a stupid and dangerous idea... but it's got merit)... have someone actually jump one of the students as they go from the dojo to their car, or have someone follow them as you send them on an bogus errand ... see what happens then? What would be their reaction. Are they prepared? Have the attacker approach with a knife, an (empty) gun. They've never been seen INSIDE or outside the dojo so there's none of that momentary recognition there. Say a teacher from the opposite side of the city/town. They would just stop when they can assess the student is capable of handling the situation, not scared, trembling in fear handing over their wallet/purse and instead standing their ground prepared for an attack or running back to the dojo to get help.
:idunno: just a thawt. It's what I would do eventually to a mid-rank/belt student.

My thought is while many MA-students are aware of it, know of it and train for it... many are woefully unprepared mentally for the stress of an actual stranger-street attacker. They can be watchful and aware and all of that... yet when it all comes right down to it. There is no flight only fight option left... that gut-twisting/wrenching feeling is hard to get rid of and that'll probably add on to whatever city's statistics.

 

[sgtmac_46]

The problem is that 'Martial Arts' is such a broad and nebulous term. It can mean everything from MMA to Krav Maga to the Tai Chi the little old lady does in the park. So when we say 'MA is effective or is not effective' it doesn't really mean anything.

 

[Cirdan]

Some truth in what he says, but nothing you won`t be taught by any competent teacher.

We have a saying: "Don`t leave your brain at the dojo door"

 

[Chris Parker]

Well, I couldn't access the video (kept telling me to wait for email confirmation....), so I'll just address the OP itself.

I saw this ad on MT and clicked on it just "to see what he has to say". Watched the 10 minute video http://www.truthaboutmartialarts.com/TAMAVideopage.html and gave it some thought.

I'm always a little cautious of things like this ("Exposing the Truth of Martial Arts! What Martial Arts Teachers Don't Want You To Know!" etc), but that said most of what appears to have been said (judging from other posts) is the same type of thing I've actually been saying myself, to a degree.

I've said a number of times here (in other threads, no point repeating it all again...) that I don't feel that any martial art is designed for self defence/street defence, as the aims, ideals, concepts, and so on are fairly removed from what would be required for self/street defence. Those that are designed for such are not what I would class as "martial arts", such as RBSD systems (Senshido, R-SULT, etc).

I found some of the things he said agreeable. As a (former) street fighter because I used to be homeless, lived on the streets and used to conduct illegal activities (that I'd rather not talk about) that got me into violent confrontations on more than several occasions.

Some of the things I did not agree with because I do happen to know reputable MA-instructors and know that they do not intentionally hoodwink customers/students as this video implies.
Granted MA McDojos do have this reputation and are in it for the money (not ALL but a good number around the country/world do).

I would think that a legitimate, reputable instructor would have the integrity to let their students know just how effective their chosen art would be out on the street and also have a class or even seminar about how they need to protect themselves from LEGAL ramifications when they use their skills out in the "real world". If they don't... then they SHOULD!
Bringing in a police officer and/or attorney or even a judge to give a talk about what can and cannot be done when using their skills would be a good idea. If anything it will help put it all in perspective for the advancing student as they go through their respective ranks/belts.

When it comes to instructors letting their students know (realistically) how effective their system is for street defence, well, to a great degree, I don't think many of the instructors who teach less-than-realistic systems are actually that aware of it. They have a belief that, due to the fact that it is a martial art, and as they have been brought through the system being told "it works", they are simply passing that on. They rarely have enough understanding to actually objectively realise any limitations themselves, instead simply believing what they have been told (in itself, hardly surprising, particularly when dealing with Asian systems, as that is a major aspect of the teaching method: Do what you're told, believe what you're told, don't question what you're told) and passing on that false belief. This happens in all areas, so it's not that surprising.

An instructor would know to (eventually) teach adrenal response control, the calming of ones self when their bodies (involuntarily) dumps a load of adrenalin into their system and yet they are still in control mentally, physically and emotionally of themselves as they prepare for the confrontation that is in front of them.

Well, traditional systems (speaking from a Japanese perspective here, although I'm sure in other cultural systems as well) deal with this as an intimate aspect of the training. In Japanese systems it's taught within the concept of Mushin (no thought/no mind, a way of calming the mind under stress so as to not have you engage under emotional extremes, in other words to quieten down the effects of adrenaline under stress). Of course that doesn't mean that they are necessarily ideal for modern street defence, just that the concept is covered there. The lack of understanding of it doesn't mean it isn't there...

As a former street fighter (I've gotten away from that environment and damned glad of it too) I learned over time, how important it was to remain as calm as possible and to fight against the "tunnel vision" the narrator of the video speaks about. Realizing that there is RARELY only ONE attacker and by maintaining as close to a 360 degree bubble of awareness as possible would save one from being in the hospital or morgue.

I am awfully tempted to take this guy's offer and download the vids to see what all he has to say... but I think I would like to get feedback/opinions from the MA-ists on this board. If anything he offers a 60 day money back guarantee so essentially it'll be a free vid.

If it's free, and you feel the money-back offer will be honoured, why not? It's always good to have a little more education on things like this, and although it may be more scare-mongering than anything else, at least you'll know what is there if anyone asks you about it...

What say you? Watch the video if you would please before replying. By the way a majority of it is texted (not precisely called captioning) but there are a few other things that he says that are not texted on the video. This was MOST helpful especially since I'm hearing impaired and made it clear as to what he was saying.

Would love to, will try again, but as I said it wasn't letting me in earlier... if I get to watch it, I'll add to this. But for now, this is as good as I can get. Sorry.

Thoughts, comments please. I think it would make for a good discussion.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I couldn't view the video. All that I got when I clicked the link was a huge warning about the inherent machismo of the content and that I wouldn't be able to view it until I responded to the e-mail. Since I never had a chance to put in an e-mail address, I received no such e-mail.

Since I cannot see the presentation, I will have to defer to others about the actual content.

Regarding MA and street effectiveness:

As a general rule, I think that many MA instructors in the US have become fairly removed from the practical application of their art, whatever it may be. This happens for many reasons, but in my opinion, it is the end result of the massive commercialization of popular martial arts coupled with the push to promote as many blackbelts as possible. Often, the black belts did not meet the same standards as the black belts who came up before them. They taught students, who were not quite what they were, and so on, until you have instructors who know the curriculum and may be good teachers but cannot deliver the goods on a practical level.

Also, there is a dynamic of people getting into the martial arts for non-SD reasons and an accompanying push to capitalize on that.

Lastly, in our litigation happy country, much of the harder training that was done when I was younger is a lot less commonplace.

Another major issue that I see is that MA is not a monolithic entity. Wushu is not Shotokan, which is not Kendo, which is not Aikido, which is not Taekwondo, which is not BJJ, which is not Hapkido. While they are all quite different, they are often lumped together as "martial arts" and criticized together rather than looked at in their own light.

I see the popularity of MMA as a backlash against the commercialization of the martial arts (among other things), not against the arts themselves. Also, I see many advertisements of dubious martial systems (all taught via DVD or online medium) taking advantage of this backlash and commercializing lack of confidence that people have in MA due to commercialization of MA. Kind of silly in my opinion.

Daniel

 

[MJS]

Well, much like Chris, I too, could not access this info, so I'll also just reply to this post.

I saw this ad on MT and clicked on it just "to see what he has to say". Watched the 10 minute video http://www.truthaboutmartialarts.com/TAMAVideopage.html and gave it some thought.

I found some of the things he said agreeable. As a (former) street fighter because I used to be homeless, lived on the streets and used to conduct illegal activities (that I'd rather not talk about) that got me into violent confrontations on more than several occasions.

Some of the things I did not agree with because I do happen to know reputable MA-instructors and know that they do not intentionally hoodwink customers/students as this video implies.
Granted MA McDojos do have this reputation and are in it for the money (not ALL but a good number around the country/world do).

Usually, any time I see things like this, a red flag goes up. I mean, pick up any MA magazine, Black Belt is filled with them, check out some former members who've come on here, trying to sell, their "new style" and you'll also see more red flags. IMHO, its nothing new. What it is, is simply someone elses idea(s) simply presented in a different way. I usually see nothing different than either I dont already do or have seen in other arts.

The street fighters, thugs, inmates, etc., have somewhat of an advantage, and will resort to their 'dirty' tactics, when fighting. In many cases, its the mindset that makes the difference. However, I've seen and heard of that falling short on them, because many times, others will call their bluff, and do something that they didn't expect.

In a nutshell, sure, some of those thugs, streetfighters, are dangerous, but they're certainly not some unbeatable force of man.

I would think that a legitimate, reputable instructor would have the integrity to let their students know just how effective their chosen art would be out on the street and also have a class or even seminar about how they need to protect themselves from LEGAL ramifications when they use their skills out in the "real world". If they don't... then they SHOULD!
Bringing in a police officer and/or attorney or even a judge to give a talk about what can and cannot be done when using their skills would be a good idea. If anything it will help put it all in perspective for the advancing student as they go through their respective ranks/belts.

An instructor would know to (eventually) teach adrenal response control, the calming of ones self when their bodies (involuntarily) dumps a load of adrenalin into their system and yet they are still in control mentally, physically and emotionally of themselves as they prepare for the confrontation that is in front of them.
As a former street fighter (I've gotten away from that environment and damned glad of it too) I learned over time, how important it was to remain as calm as possible and to fight against the "tunnel vision" the narrator of the video speaks about. Realizing that there is RARELY only ONE attacker and by maintaining as close to a 360 degree bubble of awareness as possible would save one from being in the hospital or morgue.

Well, one would assume that this stuff would be taught, however, often its not. Keep in mind, all this important stuff, is often frowned upon because people either dont take the training serious from the get-go, so why should they waste their time learning it, the teacher themself, doesnt feel it necessary, people think that they'll never get into a SD situation, so why learn it, people will think its too violent, as if the arts arent violent in their true form. The list goes on and on and on.

IMHO, I do think this is all very important stuff. Many just teach the 'during' phase of the confrontation, not the before and after. Before meaning, how to verbally talk their way out, reading body language, etc., and after as in dealing with the legal side, the overall stress, etc.

I feel that the arts are effective, but it all comes down to how they're trained.

I am awfully tempted to take this guy's offer and download the vids to see what all he has to say... but I think I would like to get feedback/opinions from the MA-ists on this board. If anything he offers a 60 day money back guarantee so essentially it'll be a free vid.

What say you? Watch the video if you would please before replying. By the way a majority of it is texted (not precisely called captioning) but there are a few other things that he says that are not texted on the video. This was MOST helpful especially since I'm hearing impaired and made it clear as to what he was saying.

Thoughts, comments please. I think it would make for a good discussion.

Whether or not you choose to watch the clips, or buy into anything this guy is selling, is totally, and completely up to you. Whats that old saying, "Let the buyer beware." So, that being said....its up to you. For me, I'll opt out. I'm content with what I'm already doing.

 

[MA-Caver]

Whether or not you choose to watch the clips, or buy into anything this guy is selling, is totally, and completely up to you. Whats that old saying, "Let the buyer beware." So, that being said....its up to you. For me, I'll opt out. I'm content with what I'm already doing.

I'm sorry you and others are unable to access the video... when prompted I gave them my "bogus e-mail address or the one that I use to funnel spam into (using a yahoo address instead of my regular e-mail which only friends/family have)... I entered it... clicked and was able to go straight to the video immediately.

"Let the buyer beware"... of course... isn't that what I'm doing... asking about it here first :uhyeah:

Thanks for the input thus far ... keep 'em coming.

 

[geezer]

Caver, you lived on the streets before moving into caves? Interesting. In between, did you ever go exploring urban-tunnels? Some friends of mine and I got into the storm drains and utility tunnels under a large university campus back in the 80s when the security systems were disabled to install a fiber optic network. They went on for miles and we popped up in all kinds of wierd places... from sub-basements to alleyways, startling both homeless guys and overworked grad students. Later some idiots got into the tunnels and messed with some high voltage equipment. After their fried bodies were removed, security was tightened up so we never went back.

Now, on to the topic. Like a lot of others, I couldn't access the videoclip, but have seen a lot of things that sound similar. On one hand, I feel that a RBSD kind of approach does have merit and needs to be included in MA training. On the other hand, it still has limitations as you pointed out. And honestly I don't think your more realistic alternative quoted below would be a good idea at all.

Try this (and it's a stupid and dangerous idea... but it's got merit)... have someone actually jump one of the students as they go from the dojo to their car, or have someone follow them as you send them on an bogus errand ... see what happens then? What would be their reaction. Are they prepared? Have the attacker approach with a knife, an (empty) gun...

The problem with this scenario is that your student might just believe that the attack is real. And if they don't freeze up, but respond effectively, they may well kill the "attacker" before you can interceed. Out here, anybody can carry a gun, open or concealed without a permit. Several of the guys I work out with carry a sidearm and a knife or two wherever thy go. I know it sounds crazy, but a number of times we've been training and I hit against something hard, only to have them say, "Sorry dude, that's my piece". As for myself, I don't carry a weapon... per se. But I keep a lot of tools and sports equipment around where I can get to it.

So for example, if someone pretended to jump me with a pipe, knife or "empty gun" when I was getting into my truck I might have a chance to grab the heavy "club" brand steering wheel lock I leave on the seat, or the tire iron from the bed. If I react the way I should, that would-be attacker would have his skull caved in when he brandishes a gun, knife or other weapon of "deadly force. Now what do we say when my "instructor" pops out from behind a dumpster? "Hey, great job, you just killed my buddy, Sensei Joe?" And if I had, wouldn't my actions still be justified? Wouldn't that make my instructor partly responsible for the death of his friend. Sounds like a mess to me.

From my perspective, there really isn't a perfect way for typical, peaceful people to train for a street attack. I think a combination of RBSD and good MA training are a good start, but above all, we need to be honest with ourselves about the limits of what we can do, and try to avoid situations in which such an attack is likely to occur.

 

[seasoned]

It's not as much what you train in, as long as it's realistic, but, it is your mind set while training. Law enforcement and Military train to kill, but never get to that point, until faced with that life and death situation. As far as "MA Is Ineffective On The Streets", so is a gun, in the wrong hands.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

I couldn't view the video. All that I got when I clicked the link was a huge warning about the inherent machismo of the content and that I wouldn't be able to view it until I responded to the e-mail. Since I never had a chance to put in an e-mail address, I received no such e-mail.

Since I cannot see the presentation, I will have to defer to others about the actual content.

Regarding MA and street effectiveness:

As a general rule, I think that many MA instructors in the US have become fairly removed from the practical application of their art, whatever it may be. This happens for many reasons, but in my opinion, it is the end result of the massive commercialization of popular martial arts coupled with the push to promote as many blackbelts as possible. Often, the black belts did not meet the same standards as the black belts who came up before them. They taught students, who were not quite what they were, and so on, until you have instructors who know the curriculum and may be good teachers but cannot deliver the goods on a practical level.

Also, there is a dynamic of people getting into the martial arts for non-SD reasons and an accompanying push to capitalize on that.

Lastly, in our litigation happy country, much of the harder training that was done when I was younger is a lot less commonplace.

Another major issue that I see is that MA is not a monolithic entity. Wushu is not Shotokan, which is not Kendo, which is not Aikido, which is not Taekwondo, which is not BJJ, which is not Hapkido. While they are all quite different, they are often lumped together as "martial arts" and criticized together rather than looked at in their own light.

I see the popularity of MMA as a backlash against the commercialization of the martial arts (among other things), not against the arts themselves. Also, I see many advertisements of dubious martial systems (all taught via DVD or online medium) taking advantage of this backlash and commercializing lack of confidence that people have in MA due to commercialization of MA. Kind of silly in my opinion.

Daniel

I have to agree with that daniel.Its interesting that you say "there is a dynamic of people getting into the martial arts for non-SD reasons". Its amazing how often I ask someone why they chose to get into martial arts and the answer is either to get fit, to make friends, to increase flexibility, to improve core strength or to compliment a sport they already do etc etc. I am hearing less and less people say that it is to learn self defence or learn to fight etc. Rightly or wrongly I think a lot of martial arts clubs are tailoring there programs to suit the growing needs of the people doing it. Basically they have realised that not everyone studies a martial art to learn how to fight. I saw a brochure for a karate club the other day that said "great fun and fitness for the whole family" and had testimonials from clientel saying how they've "never felt better" and "have made new friends", and nowhere in the advertisement was the term 'self defence' even used. This is not necessarilly a good or bad things but just that times have changed and people are joining martial arts clubs for a whole new variety of reasons that perhaps were not there in the past.

 

[teekin]

Caver I think it depends on the persons mindset, life experiances, and what they have been taught. If a person has the mindset and tools then they are more than a match for the thugs. Thugs want Victims, not someone who will make sure that the attacker goes to the ER as well.
There is truely some bullhockey being taught that will prove to be a quick trip to and long stay in ICU. Some is by charletans getting rich without any regard for the damage they will cause but also by well meaning Senseis who beleive in their Arts and are passing down what they learned from their masters.
A person who has become innured to adrenal dump, uses it to highten awarness and focus, and knows how to incapacitate someone can use MA in a Street incident. The more real time MA they have done, like boxing, the more likely they are to walk away unharmed.

For example, most women panick when they are physically grabbed. I get happy. The thought that races through my mind isn't "oh Crap" it's " HA!!! I've got you now!!" because they commited to the first move and tied up a hand and arm as well as planted their legs. They have likely locked out an elbow as well. They will defend that grip to the death. (idiots) I can do Ohhh so many nasty things just because they grabbed me. But it's mindset and training that allows that.

( oopsee, being crowded by the poodle now that the wolves are in full song. She is Skeetered of the them things. Ooopps, now she's crawled into bed and under the covers. If she can't see them they can't see her, poodle logic)

Lori

 

[Tez3]

The ad itself is offensive showing a child behind prison bars and saying you or your child could end up in prison or dead, then going on to say it has the truth that martial arts instructors won't tell you. I didn't respond at all to it as I found the whole thing distasteful. If it has anything useful to say it can go without me reading it.

 

[Tanaka]

I've seen things like this before. To be honest it seems more like they're just finding another way to convince people to their "teachings." It appears to me that they're not really teaching anything that reputable MA schools/gyms don't already teach.

• Our teacher has taught me about tunnel vision that occurs
• And how to maintain 360 awareness and what techniques might sacrifice that 360 awareness(and to be aware of that).
• He also teaches us how to stay in the realm of self defense.
• Etc

It is really beneficial that hes a police officer as well, and very experienced at both martial arts and being on the force. I don't really think it's "worse" to teach kids/our kids martial arts. I don't look at it in the way that "Oh my kid can now defend himself and beat someone up if they mess with him."(They should be under parental supervision and defended by an adult)

I look at it as they're learning at the age of when it's easy to learn. When you're older you have already developed your habits and what makes you... you. The children at my school tend to pick up the japanese language much easier than the adults do. And since they're learning MA at their age. They will most likely be very good when they grow up.

 

[MJS]

I'm sorry you and others are unable to access the video... when prompted I gave them my "bogus e-mail address or the one that I use to funnel spam into (using a yahoo address instead of my regular e-mail which only friends/family have)... I entered it... clicked and was able to go straight to the video immediately.

I'd have done the same thing, but all I got when I clicked the link, was just some words, nothing that prompted me to go to the videos.

"Let the buyer beware"... of course... isn't that what I'm doing... asking about it here first :uhyeah:

Thanks for the input thus far ... keep 'em coming.

True, and you're welcome.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I have to agree with that daniel. Its interesting that you say "there is a dynamic of people getting into the martial arts for non-SD reasons". Its amazing how often I ask someone why they chose to get into martial arts and the answer is either to get fit, to make friends, to increase flexibility, to improve core strength or to compliment a sport they already do etc etc. I am hearing less and less people say that it is to learn self defence or learn to fight etc.

I think that a lot of this is due to the changing nature of our society. Many behaviors that were once commonplace, or even acceptable, are less common and less acceptable. It is no longer acceptable for two guys to go at it in the street and 'get it out of their system' and both will end up in jail. The police have assumed a greater role in disputes and lawyers are waiting in the wings make sure that anyone who steps out of line has a lawsuit slapped on them. The catch is that, cyber-crime not withstanding, the nature of criminals (the kind one needs to defend themselves against physically) really hasn't changed, except perhaps to be more dangerous.

Rightly or wrongly I think a lot of martial arts clubs are tailoring there programs to suit the growing needs of the people doing it. Basically they have realised that not everyone studies a martial art to learn how to fight.

This is one of the main factors in which commercialization has drastically altered the landscape of the martial arts. I'm not saying good or bad; most likely a bit of both.

I saw a brochure for a karate club the other day that said "great fun and fitness for the whole family" and had testimonials from clientel saying how they've "never felt better" and "have made new friends", and nowhere in the advertisement was the term 'self defence' even used. This is not necessarilly a good or bad things but just that times have changed and people are joining martial arts clubs for a whole new variety of reasons that perhaps were not there in the past.

On the plus side, many of the 'non martial' reasons that people have for taking a martial art end up benefiting them on ye old mythical street.

Families having fun and staying fit together means a healthier family. Being healthy and in shape does have its benefits in self defense.

Also, people who feel better about themselves are less likely to engage in antisocial behavior, and since much of that 'feeling' is due to being in better physical condition, again they have increased their odds of survival in a physical confrontation.

More importantly, people who feel good about themselves tend to exude more confidence, something that signals predators to perhaps seek a more appealing target.

Making new friends at the dojo means associating with (hopefully) more positive people who do not engage in antisocial or plain stupid behavior and who do not go to the sorts of places where such behavior is commonplace. This increases the odds for the student as well by helping them to follow the three part rule: don't go to stupid places with stupid people to do stupid things.

While family and fitness oriented MA does have those benefits that will likely keep students safe 99% of the time, it is that 1% of the time that the stupid people leave their stupid places and come to you to visit stupid (and harmful) things upon you that can get you killed. This is the least encountered scenario, and it is the most dangerous. Partly because the the assailants are incredibly aggressive they've come to you with the intent of doing harm), but also because it is the scenario that most people have virtually no training to deal with.

Someone (I think Geezer) mentioned the military and the police. Actual combat comprises very little of the activity of most soldiers or police officers. It requires regular and dedicated training to be able to act in those situations consistently and appropriately. If you never train to actually defend against a realistic attack, then your odds of surviving a real attack goes down exponentially. The military knows this, which is why there is some level of required and regular training to maintain those skills. I assume that it is the same for police officers as well.

Daniel