Left handed but right footed which stance I should pick

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
14,036
Reaction score
5,959
Very simple answer: the brain is protected by the skull. It can take loads of damage. Look at NFL CTE. Years of hits to cause that.

The chances of a head KO are greater than a body shot KO, and head strikes are worth more points, and most boxing matches end up in a decision. The average match is going to see each fighter take dozens of direct strikes to the head, but training is going to prevent all but a fraction from causing a KO.

The squishy organs around your belly are totally exposed outside of the ribs, and a strike to any one of them can cause immediate and permanent life changing damage. And for that reason, boxers train to use their abdominals muscles as sort of shield (one that doesn't work against an incoming teep or flying knee you're not prepared to receive, too)

This is why hitting below the belt is illegal in boxing: the belt isn't at the waist, it's midway up the abdomen for that reason.

Same reason weight lifting belts are designed the way they are.
when I was saying this I was referring to stances and why it's a big deal of where the liver is located depending on stance when most people are going to go for the head anyway, but not the liver lol. but still good stuff.
 

drop bear

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
23,371
Reaction score
8,109
You can also hit the liver if it is at the front foot or the back.
 

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
14,082
Reaction score
4,548
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
most people are going to go for the head anyway,
It makes more sense to let the hand to do the hand job (punch the head) and let the leg to do the leg job (kick the body).

This is why I prefer to put my strong arm forward (cover more range) and put my strong leg back (have more distance to generate kicking power).
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
14,036
Reaction score
5,959
It makes more sense to let the hand to do the hand job (punch the head) and let the leg to do the leg job (kick the body).

This is why I prefer to put my strong arm forward (cover more range) and put my strong leg back (have more distance to generate kicking power).
My power leg and power arm are on the same side. This would not be valid for me. What works for me is to develop long range and close range punching and kicking ability. Then I don't have to worry about what range O need to be in. I just need to exploit the opportunity.
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
14,036
Reaction score
5,959
Allow me to demonstrate the stupidity of the orthodox vs. southpaw "debates".

Complete with a "study" from the University of Manchester, wrapped in the Daily Mail...


I would like to know who reads this and doesn't hurl in their cornflakes.

Theory crafting makes me nauseous.
I believe it 100% I'm right handed and fight in southpaw stance..... oh wait. but I'm not left handed.
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
14,036
Reaction score
5,959

marvin8

Brown Belt
Joined
Jul 23, 2010
Messages
457
Reaction score
186
I wonder if these are books written for right hand people?
Not books, video courses. They are all on open stance strategies, produced for both left hand and right hand people. The first two courses are taking the view of a southpaw fighter (left handed fighter), although their description says it applies to both. The latter two courses are how to beat a southpaw.

I attempt to make it less confusing by saying all four courses are on open stance strategies. I obtained both Southpaw Striking Fundamentals By Chris Camozzi and Southpaw Strategy By Brandon Gibson. So, I can go over questions on those two video courses.
 

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
14,082
Reaction score
4,548
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
They are all on open stance strategies,
Why do you want to fight in open stance? Both you and your opponent's back leg roundhouse kick can kick the other's chest.

This is one good reason to

- keep your strong leg back.
- always fight in close stance. When your opponent switches side, your back leg roundhouse kick at his chest.

 
Last edited:

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
14,036
Reaction score
5,959
Why do you want to fight in open stance? Both you and your opponent's back leg roundhouse kick can kick the other's chest.

This is one good reason to

- keep your strong leg back.
- always fight in close stance. When your opponent switches side, your back leg roundhouse kick at his chest.

He didn't get kicked In the chest. Instead of balling up like he did. All he had to do is shuffle 45 degrees to the left while punching with his rear hand. He could have also just step forward into the opponent while striking. Either way takes you out of the power zone of a round house kick.

Shuffling 45 degrees into the kick works too. The key is understanding the types of strikes that come when in that stance. Like raising the left knee for a leg check for him was a habit and not a trained response.

Instead of wasting movement to raise the knee shuffle 45 degrees and try to make sure the punch beats the kick. Moving forward or forward at an angle will take you out of the targeted impact zone. Shuffle into the kuch jams it.
 

Oily Dragon

Senior Master
Joined
May 2, 2020
Messages
3,257
Reaction score
1,650
Oh and here are a few courses on southpaw or open stance strategies by a well trained Muay Thai champion Petchmorakot and MMA trainers:

Southpaw Strategies To Becoming A Muay Thai Champion By Petchmorakot

Southpaw Striking Fundamentals By Chris Camozzi

Southpaw Strategy By Brandon Gibson

How To Fight And Defeat Southpaws By Teddy Atlas
Thanks, these are written for the new people.

I'm gonna try to erase all of this from your mind with two words: Paolo Tocha.

No offense but I think you need to watch Bloodsport again.

1702235081004.png


1702235146582.png
 

Oily Dragon

Senior Master
Joined
May 2, 2020
Messages
3,257
Reaction score
1,650
Absolutely. They're basing their conclusion on this?



I think that's what they call "slightly better than chance."

Nothing to see here, folks!
Paolo Tocha.

I had to think hard about the superior fighter who defies "orthodox" and "southpaw". 8 limbs, 64 directions type stuff.

He was the first time most of us ever saw the real Muay Thai.

I'll shut up now, but Paco won this thread 35 years ago.

 

Bill Mattocks

Sr. Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Feb 8, 2009
Messages
15,660
Reaction score
4,518
Location
Michigan
Which stance I should pick?
One trainer tell me stay southpaw, you have a big advantage in this stance but every time I throw the jab my liver is open and the straight to my liver is the death shot for every southpaw
Dubios and Joshua drop Usyk with a bodyshot its the biggest weakness for a southpaw but in orthodox stance is my footwork better and I can use my lowkicks, in orthodox is my jab very powerful and hooks to the head and the liver I dont know which stance I should pick I train boxing and Muay Thai, what should I do?

In southpaw stance I feel not comfortable like in orthodox my back foot is moving and not staying on the ground..
You should be able to fight from either side. Changing leads is a good tactic.
 
OP
L

lowkicksensei

White Belt
Joined
Dec 7, 2023
Messages
11
Reaction score
2
Allow me to demonstrate the stupidity of the orthodox vs. southpaw "debates".

Complete with a "study" from the University of Manchester, wrapped in the Daily Mail...


I would like to know who reads this and doesn't hurl in their cornflakes.

Theory crafting makes me nauseous.
You mean I should stay 100% southpaw or you mean its dont so important which stance I choose?
 

Oily Dragon

Senior Master
Joined
May 2, 2020
Messages
3,257
Reaction score
1,650
No it doesn't. The liver ends at about the mid-clavicular line. And that portion of the liver accounts for only about 10-15% of the total mass of the liver. Not to mention the very large area of the abdomen below the liver. In anatomy, the abdomen has 4 quadrants. The liver takes up a large portion (but not all) of the RUQ, a tiny bit of the LUQ, and is (except in some disease states) totally absent from the lower quadrants.

Organs have a left and right side and this doesn't necessarily have any connection to the location or orientation of the organ within the body. For example, in situs inversus with dextrocardia, the left ventricle and atrium will be towards the right side of the body and the right ventricle and atrium will be towards the left side of the body. The liver is similarly reversed, but the left hepatic duct remains the left hepatic duct.
I get what you're saying, Dog. The liver is mostly on the right side of most people, some in the middle-ish, and a little on the left, when facing forward.

I was talking about 3 dimensional liver strikes, and the fact is that in Muay Thai, a "liver shot" can come in from the right or left side. The front. And if you turn your body to avoid it, your kidneys might get the shot. All of those are bad.

A proper MT roundhouse with the right foot is going to send a shockwave into the liver too. And other squishy things.

This is the kind of stuff that gets my goat, the focus on the 2-dimensional. The human body is a 3D machine, after all.

I have a real concern for people who believe stances alone will save them for this sort of force. Just like that other thread with the classic teep...your stance is not going to save you if that teep pushes through your organs.

I just see "target rich environment".

1702258267102.png
 
Last edited:

Oily Dragon

Senior Master
Joined
May 2, 2020
Messages
3,257
Reaction score
1,650
You mean I should stay 100% southpaw or you mean its dont so important which stance I choose?
I mean the whole "choosing stances" thing is kind of an illusion.

One that European boxers typically focus on because of that ruleset, and in a way it corrupts other arts. But if you just focus on Boxing, you'll always find the best people train to the point where stance is fluid.

Muay Thai is a 3 dimensional fighting art. Strikes can go straight up into the sky, or come from a person who is literally spinning around.

I hate to block quote people but for you I'll try my best:

Which stance I should pick?
Whatever feels right in the moment. See: Paolo Tocha in Bloodsport.

There is a dancing aspect to Muay Thai that helps to build the greatest fighters.

When I train, I like to pretend I'm walking on hot coals. Just a personal thing but it works. If your opponent looks and sees your LEFT TOE forward, change it. IF they see one fist in front of another, pull it back.

I'm probably not making much sense, because I'm a terrible teacher.
One trainer tell me stay southpaw, you have a big advantage in this stance
That is entirely dependent on who you are fighting and how they move. It'll vary opponent to opponent.

But if you're up against someone who can only spar with the same fist and foot forward, the real advantage is knowing that.
but every time I throw the jab my liver is open
Your liver is open most of the time because you should be guarding your head at all times.

The only real way to defend your liver is to not let it get hit, or have really strong abdominal muscles that you can engage at will, or maybe guard your abs with your arms or knees.

But if that last one happens, your face is open. Choose wisely.
and the straight to my liver is the death shot for every southpaw
Straight to the liver is the death shot for most breathing humans. But as I posted just before, that shot can come from literally any side of the body.

Best defense: no be there. Second best, tight abs with precision timing. Third, shell but be ready.
Dubios and Joshua drop Usyk with a bodyshot its the biggest weakness for a southpaw but in orthodox stance is my footwork better and I can use my lowkicks, in orthodox is my jab very powerful and hooks to the head and the liver I dont know which stance I should pick I train boxing and Muay Thai, what should I do?
And this is the problem, it's funny we just had this discussion in another thread on a Muay Thai teep knockdown.

When you mix boxing and Muay Thai, imho, it belittles Muay Thai. That said, there's nothing wrong with that. But nuances between arts are important. Muay Thai is just more complex.
In southpaw stance I feel not comfortable like in orthodox my back foot is moving and not staying on the ground..
Stances are kind of like cookie cutters.

You don't eat the cookie cutter.
 
Last edited:

Oily Dragon

Senior Master
Joined
May 2, 2020
Messages
3,257
Reaction score
1,650
ha ha ha please don't
You'll miss one of the best, real displays of Asian fighting arts on film. Especially Muay Thai.

Dirty was busting me before about a "ninja" beating Paco in the movie, in case you missed that.

The irony is Paolo Tocha is one of the best living fighters, Jean Claude is a distant second, and Frank Dux is not even on the map.

Paolo uses the "stance of no stance" in the movie, and it's stuck with me for 35 years.
 
Last edited:

Hanshi

Blue Belt
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
239
Reaction score
183
Location
Virginia
The "so-called" liver punch does not damage the liver, if it did it would mean certain death. But it sure delivers shock to a vulnerable area. As a boxer I trained both orthodox and southpaw and could box well either side. It's among my favorite techniques and I've used it to drop a fighter; I was a sparring partner for him for quite a while. Body blows are underrated in my opinion.
 

Dirty Dog

MT Senior Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Messages
23,391
Reaction score
9,138
Location
Pueblo West, CO
The "so-called" liver punch does not damage the liver,
Depends on how you define "damage". I would consider being hit hard enough to end the fight damaging.
if it did it would mean certain death.
Bollocks. It takes a really severe injury to the liver before we ship you off to the OR. Minor liver lacerations are "watch and wait". Liver lacs are graded on a 5 scale. A grade 2 lac affects up to 50% of the livers surface area, has a hematoma up to 10cm diameter and penetrates up to 3cm into the parenchyma. Mostly those will get you a few days of bedrest and that's it. More than 80% of blunt force liver injuries will not require anything other than bedrest and monitoring. The overall mortality rate for liver injuries is a whopping 2-3%.
 
Top