Which MA should I take to combine it with Hung Gar?

Tony Dismukes

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However, in the above described relationship, telling the teacher that you want to train something else sends a message that you do not value what he is teaching you, and you do not value your relationship with him.

Why? When my students train somewhere else I don't take it as any sort of message that they don't value what I teach. I take it as a message that maybe they'll have some new information I'll be able to learn from them down the line.

It's because learning a comprehensive system requires focus and dedication. Training elsewhere means you don't want to give the focus and dedication needed, so why waste time teaching him, when his attention is elsewhere?

Lots of things can take a student's time and energy and focus and dedication away from learning your system. Going to college and studying engineering. Raising a kid. Starting a business. All of these are likely to take up more focus and dedication than studying a second martial art. I haven't heard much about traditional sifus kicking out students who choose to pursue one of those paths.

He can choose to NOT teach you. That is his choice to make. Nothing can force him to teach you, if he decides not to.

Absolutely. A teacher can teach who he wants to. If a teacher wants to only teach left-handed dyslexics under 5'7" who agree to recite Jabberwocky every Tuesday, he can do so. The rest of us are free to express our opinion of that decision.

The thing is, he may decide to teach you crap, and you don't know it.

I see this idea periodically - that a teacher may choose to hold back the "good stuff" for his favored students teach the rest "crap" without letting them know that he is doing so. Frequently this comes up in lineage wars, where it is asserted that the head of one particular lineage was one of the favored few who got the good stuff.

To be frank, I find this totally unethical and a sign of poor character. If the teacher-student relationship is a "business arrangement", then the teacher is cheating his customer. If the teacher-student relationship is that of family, then the teacher is deceiving a family member to that person's detriment.

But there are real conflicts of training that will make your training worse and not better. What's the point in training in 2 fighting systems where one fighting system teaches the opposite of what the other fighting system teaches?

I actually can understand and sympathize with this point. I remember when I trained in the Bujinkan we would often get students whose prior training would seem to get in the way of their understanding of how to do taijutsu.

On the other hand, in the arts I train now we have people come in who have prior or current training in a wide variety of other arts and it doesn't seem to be any problem at all. The student is responsible for putting aside other ways of moving when they learn something new and deciding how to integrate those alternate ways of moving into their overall game when they reach the point where they need to do that.

When Flying Crane says "traditional" Chinese Martial Arts he means traditional in the true sense that is related to the following definition
- a way of thinking, behaving, or doing something that has been used by the people in a particular group, family, society, etc., for a long time
- cultural continuity in social attitudes, customs, and institutions

Many schools martial art schools claim to be a traditional martial art only based on the fighting system. This is a western perspective of "traditional." If you go to a real traditional Chinese martial art school then you are going to get a taste of Chinese culture. There are things that students are allowed to do and are not allowed to do as defined by the traditional Chinese culture for that school.

I get that, but I don't exclude practices from criticism because they are "traditional". Traditional Chinese culture includes just as many elements that are silly, stupid, unethical, or harmful to the growth of the student as any other culture (modern or traditional or western or eastern). If someone wants to explore another culture, I think that's great. I just wouldn't recommend buying into the negative aspects of those culture just because they are "traditional."

BTW - the whole "don't train elsewhere" philosophy isn't unique to traditional Chinese arts. Some BJJ instructors had or still have this attitude. Many of them offer justifications which are similar to those mentioned by Flying Crane. Since BJJ is my primary art, I'm much more blunt in offering my opinion of those instructors and their motivations than I am being here.

(Just to be clear, this is not a knock against anyone who is training at such a "traditional" school and finds it suits their needs. Just offering a different viewpoint for any student who is weighing his or her options.)
 

JowGaWolf

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I just wouldn't recommend buying into the negative aspects of those culture just because they are "traditional."
I agree with this. Personally I wouldn't buy into anything negative (meaning it's bad for me). Someone telling me not to practice a fighting system while training another isn't always negative. Sometimes things become "Traditional" because they are actually good for you and the world is full of examples of how modern medicine has done research on something and discovered that the "traditional" way and sayings that people had were actually the right thing to be doing. But like you stated there are also some traditional stuff that is stupid.

Flying Crane and I aren't saying to buy into it. It's just that it's something to be aware of. Culture has always been one of those things that a person either accepts or deals with the consequence. This isn't just a kung fu thing. My wife couldn't kiss me in public in Dubai, and to me that's stupid, but that's their culture. I can either accept it or deal with the consequence. It's just better to be aware of the offensive things within a culture than to do something offensive and not be aware that it's offensive.

The OP may really like Hung Gar, the Sifu, the classmates and the environment. All of this could be a positive environment which outweighs the point of "If Skaw (OP) can practice at another school or not." If this is the case then it's just good to be aware of the things that may cause the person to be removed from the numerous positives that he or she is getting from the school. I'm not a big TKD fan but if someone really enjoyed TKD and their school and their classmates, then I wouldn't want them to do anything that would get them kicked out of a positive environment, even if some of their rules didn't make sense to me.

By the way I agree with your statement there is no wrong or right in this topic. Just perspectives
 

Flying Crane

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Why? When my students train somewhere else I don't take it as any sort of message that they don't value what I teach. I take it as a message that maybe they'll have some new information I'll be able to learn from them down the line.



Lots of things can take a student's time and energy and focus and dedication away from learning your system. Going to college and studying engineering. Raising a kid. Starting a business. All of these are likely to take up more focus and dedication than studying a second martial art. I haven't heard much about traditional sifus kicking out students who choose to pursue one of those paths.



Absolutely. A teacher can teach who he wants to. If a teacher wants to only teach left-handed dyslexics under 5'7" who agree to recite Jabberwocky every Tuesday, he can do so. The rest of us are free to express our opinion of that decision.



I see this idea periodically - that a teacher may choose to hold back the "good stuff" for his favored students teach the rest "crap" without letting them know that he is doing so. Frequently this comes up in lineage wars, where it is asserted that the head of one particular lineage was one of the favored few who got the good stuff.

To be frank, I find this totally unethical and a sign of poor character. If the teacher-student relationship is a "business arrangement", then the teacher is cheating his customer. If the teacher-student relationship is that of family, then the teacher is deceiving a family member to that person's detriment.



I actually can understand and sympathize with this point. I remember when I trained in the Bujinkan we would often get students whose prior training would seem to get in the way of their understanding of how to do taijutsu.

On the other hand, in the arts I train now we have people come in who have prior or current training in a wide variety of other arts and it doesn't seem to be any problem at all. The student is responsible for putting aside other ways of moving when they learn something new and deciding how to integrate those alternate ways of moving into their overall game when they reach the point where they need to do that.



I get that, but I don't exclude practices from criticism because they are "traditional". Traditional Chinese culture includes just as many elements that are silly, stupid, unethical, or harmful to the growth of the student as any other culture (modern or traditional or western or eastern). If someone wants to explore another culture, I think that's great. I just wouldn't recommend buying into the negative aspects of those culture just because they are "traditional."

BTW - the whole "don't train elsewhere" philosophy isn't unique to traditional Chinese arts. Some BJJ instructors had or still have this attitude. Many of them offer justifications which are similar to those mentioned by Flying Crane. Since BJJ is my primary art, I'm much more blunt in offering my opinion of those instructors and their motivations than I am being here.

(Just to be clear, this is not a knock against anyone who is training at such a "traditional" school and finds it suits their needs. Just offering a different viewpoint for any student who is weighing his or her options.)
Not all sifu feel this way about it but some do. Sure, any student who doesn't like it is free to leave. However, as I've said, the OP seems to be unaware of this. He needs to decide if he values the training and instruction and relationship he has with his sifu, because he could be jeopardizing it by trying to train elsewhere, especially if he does it on the sly. He needs to be aware of the possibility. As I've said more than once now, he needs to discuss with his sifu so he knows what the consequences might be. Notice I said "might be," not "will be". I don't know his sifu. I do know, however, a little bit about what issues can arise when studying with a traditional minded sifu. Whether or not the issues seem "right" by Western sensibilities.

I'm not going to go thru and discuss your comments point-by-point. I don't think that would be terribly constructive. I only say like it or not, understand it or not, this is how it can be with some sifu. If you don't like it, then don't train in this kind of environment.
 
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Skaw

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Hey guys. Long story short, yes, I'm training more.

Since January I'm training 3 days a week.

Eventually I'll train HG and do something on the side, but that's distant. I'll still doing Hung Gar, more days a week, and even more happy than before.

Horse stance is a still a pain in the *** (Literally) but we can't have it all :)
 

drop bear

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Hey guys. Long story short, yes, I'm training more.

Since January I'm training 3 days a week.

Eventually I'll train HG and do something on the side, but that's distant. I'll still doing Hung Gar, more days a week, and even more happy than before.

Horse stance is a still a pain in the *** (Literally) but we can't have it all :)

There are exercises you can do. A fun one to start with. Horse stance then walk forwards heel and toe without breaking your stance.

At the very least it will make stance work pleasant in comparison.
 

Flying Crane

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Hey guys. Long story short, yes, I'm training more.

Since January I'm training 3 days a week.

Eventually I'll train HG and do something on the side, but that's distant. I'll still doing Hung Gar, more days a week, and even more happy than before.

Horse stance is a still a pain in the *** (Literally) but we can't have it all :)
Just focus on what you are working on. You'll get more from it than if you always have a wandering eye, interrupting your attention.
 
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