Kung fu in MMA Wins

JowGaWolf

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It's about time, but not really. I always knew this kick was bad news. Straight out of the Kung Fu Manual. Kung Fu gets a bad image, but there is some really dangerous end game type stuff in there. Sucks to have that knee blown out like that. Hopefully it's not career ending

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Hanzou

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That kick can be found in numerous striking systems. Considering that Roundtree has trained in Muay Thai for over a decade, it's fair to say that he more than likely picked up that technique from that discipline.
 
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JowGaWolf

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That kick can be found in numerous striking systems.
Including kung fu.

My comment wasn't that it wasn't in numerous striking systems.
 

Hanzou

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Including kung fu.

My comment wasn't that it wasn't in numerous striking systems.

Your comment is implying that this guy is a Kung Fu practitioner utilizing a Kung Fu technique. Again, Roundtree is a longtime Muay Thai practitioner, so it is doubtful that he has ever trained in Kung Fu, or picked up this technique from Kung Fu.
 

Alan0354

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It's just kind of side kick to the knee. Seen it in UFC a few times. We learn it in Tae Kwon Do. During the fight, you cannot time everything perfectly, even if you kick the bag 100 times, they all look a little different. In the picture, the toes were higher than the heel, that just show the side kick is not fully pivot and extended, nothing unusual.

More Common is step kick of Wing Chun to the knee used in UFC, you see it on every show. Faster, might not kick as hard, but hard enough and a lot faster.


EDIT: I forgot, in the picture, it looks to be front leg side kick, not exactly traditional Tae, Kwon Do. Bruce Lee made those side and round kicks famous coming from the lead leg. We practice front leg side and round kicks more so than from the back leg as it's a lot faster.
 
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Alan0354

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I was exercising just now, now it's too late to edit.

This is the clip of Bruce Lee fight with Chuck Norris. You can see at 5:46, that's the front leg side kick to the knee. At 5:27, it's Wing Chun front step kick to the knee. This is much more common in UFC. It's very effective.


For cause, it's much prettier in the movie. In real fight, it's sloppier.

I am still amaze watching Bruce Lee 48 years after he died and the MA evolved so much since. His speed is still amazing. Watch this clip, the speed really showed. I must have watched this clip over 40 times, I do not detect any speeding up in filming by looking at the surrounding and the small movements. Don't believe me, record your own practice and see. You might be in for a brutal awakening. To me, the two most influential people in MA scene in the last 50 years are Bruce Lee and Royce Gracie. These two change how people look at MA.
 
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Kung Fu Wang

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I am still amaze watching Bruce Lee 48 years after he died and the MA evolved so much since. His speed is still amazing. Watch this clip, the speed really showed. Don't believe me, record your own practice and see. You might be in for a brutal awakening.
When Bruce Lee was still alive, if you open a MA school and you can't perform his favor triple kicks combo, you won't be able to get any students.

my_triple_kick.gif


When someone walked into your school, the first question that he would ask was, "Can you kick the light ball?"

 

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Kung Fu Wang

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I am still amaze watching Bruce Lee 48 years after he died and the MA evolved so much since. His speed is still amazing. Watch this clip, the speed really showed. I must have watched this clip over 40 times, I do not detect any speeding up in filming by looking at the surrounding and the small movements. Don't believe me, record your own practice and see. You might be in for a brutal awakening.
When Bruce was still alive, to be able to reach to his speed level was always my goal.

 

jayoliver00

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It's about time, but not really. I always knew this kick was bad news. Straight out of the Kung Fu Manual. Kung Fu gets a bad image, but there is some really dangerous end game type stuff in there. Sucks to have that knee blown out like that. Hopefully it's not career ending

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That's an A-Hole move and not necessary in Combat Sports.

Karate, etc., all have that. It's an easy kick that can be easily spammed.

Just goes to show that MMA is the most brutal and most realistic of all the Combat Sports, but this is just not the right thing to do against another guy who's trying to make the same living.
 

jayoliver00

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Your comment is implying that this guy is a Kung Fu practitioner utilizing a Kung Fu technique. Again, Roundtree is a longtime Muay Thai practitioner, so it is doubtful that he has ever trained in Kung Fu, or picked up this technique from Kung Fu.

He was also praising Tiger Muay Thai for upping his game tremendously after spending a lot of time there in Thailand; then coming back and started winning with noticeable fashion afterward.

From watching him on his season of The Ultimate Fighter, he's a very nice guy. But this kick, I think he made an A-hole decision. Notice how he didn't even come over to say sorry to the other guy, probably b/c he's embarrassed of that kick and feels really bad. 1 of his cornerman even came over and hugged the other fighter, but Roundtree didn't (which is not like him, unless there was some serious bad blood or something). I could be wrong though.
 
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JowGaWolf

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From watching him on his season of The Ultimate Fighter, he's a very nice guy. But this kick, I think he made an A-hole decision. Notice how he didn't even come over to say sorry to the other guy, probably b/c he's embarrassed of that kick and feels really bad. 1 of his cornerman even came over and hugged the other fighter, but Roundtree didn't (which is not like him, unless there was some serious bad blood or something). I could be wrong though.
Ahhh so you caught on to the strange victory tone as well. it reminded me of someone who doesn't have good control of a strike. Instead of admitting that, they act as if it was intentional. His statement at the end is a strange answer. It could be him, but that's a strange response to the question. Which makes me think that he was probably aiming at the lower thigh. I bet he was thinking more along the lines of damaging the thigh and not the blowing up the knee.

It was almost like he was saying that he positioning himself for " I wasn't trying to damage his knee. I don't train that kick the way it was thrown in competition, because I want my sparring partners to be safe."

If it's a legal move in MMA then it's hard for it to be an A-hole move. If I had round house kicks that were strong enough to break arms and legs, then that's the power level I will be using in a competition where your opponent doesn't mind pounding your face into a bloody mess. If they think it's an A-hole move then they can simply ban it. Just because they try to make the fight with as few rules as possible doesn't mean that they should. That's on them.

I don't know too many people in this forum that would allow kicks to the knee.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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I don't know too many people in this forum that would allow kicks to the knee.
In long fist training that you try to kick my knee and I also try to kick your knee is a very basic training. The moment that you land your foot, the moment that I can kick your knee. If you can pull your leg back fast enough, you can kick my knee back.

Is it less civilized than to punch your opponent's head? I don't think so. Of course we are talking about combat and not sport.

Here is the long fist chain kicks training:

 

Tony Dismukes

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Ive seen fighters land that kick repeatedly with solid contact and not inflict serious damage. I think the difference is that in those cases the recipients leg was properly braced and the knee was pointed at an angle where it could flex or extend to absorb the impact.

In this case, the fighter who got injured had his leg planted at the worst possible angle relative to the angle the kick came in at. This resulted in the sort of injury that people often predict will result from side kicks to the knee, but which doesnt actually occur that frequently.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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To force your opponent's knee to bend side way is the issue.

During the old day, people use this kind of move to cause serious damage against unfriendly challengers. This is why a challenger has to take the risk because he doesn't know what his opponent may do to him.
 
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JowGaWolf

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Ive seen fighters land that kick repeatedly with solid contact and not inflict serious damage. I think the difference is that in those cases the recipients leg was properly braced and the knee was pointed at an angle where it could flex or extend to absorb the impact.

In this case, the fighter who got injured had his leg planted at the worst possible angle relative to the angle the kick came in at. This resulted in the sort of injury that people often predict will result from side kicks to the knee, but which doesnt actually occur that frequently.
Only time will tell. I would be curious to know how long he trained this kick. People tend to learn striking function before they learn striking control. First the student learns how to land a kick on the target, then they learn how to control it. Or maybe that's just the way I teach it lol.
 

jayoliver00

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Ahhh so you caught on to the strange victory tone as well. it reminded me of someone who doesn't have good control of a strike. Instead of admitting that, they act as if it was intentional. His statement at the end is a strange answer. It could be him, but that's a strange response to the question. Which makes me think that he was probably aiming at the lower thigh. I bet he was thinking more along the lines of damaging the thigh and not the blowing up the knee.

It was almost like he was saying that he positioning himself for " I wasn't trying to damage his knee. I don't train that kick the way it was thrown in competition, because I want my sparring partners to be safe."

Right? He's a very nice guy. On TUF, he was saying about how he used to weight 300+ lbs in his teens and got bullied a lot. He was the guy usually breaking up the fights between their coaches, haha.

If it's a legal move in MMA then it's hard for it to be an A-hole move. If I had round house kicks that were strong enough to break arms and legs, then that's the power level I will be using in a competition where your opponent doesn't mind pounding your face into a bloody mess. If they think it's an A-hole move then they can simply ban it. Just because they try to make the fight with as few rules as possible doesn't mean that they should. That's on them.

I don't know too many people in this forum that would allow kicks to the knee.

It's just not sporty = A-hole, IMO. Getting your face pounded into a bloody mess, is not that bad in comparison to getting your knee blown out like that which could be a career ender. Your face/head will recover & usually the Ref will save you in time. While this 1 kick is all it takes. This will take him out for 12 months at least, and another 6 months for him to get back to the skill & aggression that he was at....so no UFC income for all that time; while his competition are climbing the UFC ladder.

I didn't catch the part where he said that he was going for the thigh = sporty, so I believe him; b/c again, he doesn't seem to be the kind who'd do that, knowing full well of the dangers of that kick.
 
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JowGaWolf

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While this 1 kick is all it takes. This will take him out for 12 months at least, and another 6 months for him to get back to the skill & aggression that he was at....so no UFC income for all that time; while his competition are climbing the UFC ladder.
Well if they don't ban the kick then all of the fighters should start learning how to defend against it since it's fair game. Time will tell. Once you blow out your knee it really isn't like it used to be depending on what is torn or broken. After the match Bukauska said his leg was broken. We'll know once the xrays and mri scans come out.

I don't know if this guy is a doctor or not. But this is what he thinks happened. I personally think it will be longer. Heal times varies based on the level that you are trying to get back to. Are you just trying to work or are you trying to get back to a level of activity that puts a lot of stress on that area of the knee.

I didn't catch the part where he said that he was going for the thigh = sporty
Oh he didn't say that. I was saying that's where that kick usually lands when you don't want to blow someone's knee out. So if you train this kick you'll throw this kick higher up. Which is why I'm thinking that he made the statement about not training the kick the way that he threw it and with the intent that he threw it. He probably meant to kick the leg, because that's what he did. He probably just didn't intend for it to result in that, because most fighters who get kicked in the leg like that don't suffer the same injury. Most fighters who get kick in the leg like that are usually advancing and not punching. When you advance your foot points forward and that offers protection structure wise. But when you advance and punch at the same time the legs takes a different structure. In terms of the quality of strike. Grade A++++ perfect timing against the punch. If you want to teach self defense then that's the video clip you show of an effective strike to the leg. But if that's not your intent for that to happen then it's a D+. That means your opponent moved in a way that made the kick worse than what it is, or you haven't fully understand this kick and kicked when you probably shouldn't in terms of protecting another fighter, but then again. it's legal and the entire point of Professional fighting is to hurt your opponent. So there's that contra diction. But back to the kick.

But if he didn't intend to for the to have that result, then it's probably his lack of experience with controlling the kick that resulted in the injury. We'll know for sure in his future fights where we can watch if he decides to continue using that kick.
 
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JowGaWolf

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It's just not sporty = A-hole, IMO.
I agree with you on that. There's fighting and there's gladiator sports. Just because MMA has the fewest set of rules doesn't mean that some of the risker dangerous techniques should be allowed. When I spar with people, I only allow those type of leg kicks with people who have good control because that kick can be damaging even at lower power levels. It doesn't take much to damage the knee. People have damaged their knees with less.
 

paitingman

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Only time will tell. I would be curious to know how long he trained this kick. People tend to learn striking function before they learn striking control. First the student learns how to land a kick on the target, then they learn how to control it. Or maybe that's just the way I teach it lol.
I'm also curious to know how much time he has spent training this kick.

I know some TKD practitioners who are good with this kick as well.
This kick really can have nasty results in SD scenario when people are standing more regular and less squared off.
 

Alan0354

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Like I said before in detail in post #6 already. This is nothing more than a front leg side kick to the knee!!! We learned this in Tae Kwon Do class in the 80s. I even show in detail Bruce Lee used that in "Way of the Dragon". Go watch the video at the precise time I wrote in post #6.

You know, in real life, nothing is precise like demonstration. The distance is NOT constant as opponent moves around. If the target moves forward when you initiate the side kick, the kick lands before you get the full pivot and it will look like in the picture that the toe is higher than the keel. If you have enough distance to have full pivot, then you will easily see it is just a simple side kick to the knee.

It's just that simple. Just simple Tae Kwon Do side kick to the knee!!! If you want to learn front leg side and round kick, just watch the video of Bruce Lee, He pretty much started the front leg step in side and round kicks. My school really learned all these from Lee. We were trained to do that over the traditional back leg round and side kick.

If you still have question, watch this:

This video pretty much cover ALL the leg kicks used in UFC. Remember, Tae Kwon Do kicks are the main technique used in MMA. I am even surprised I start to see spin hook kick and even hammer kicks in UFC.


I don't want to have more rules in UFC, in fact I want less rules. People that don't want to get injure should not join UFC. Right now as is, the rules favor grapplers like you cannot strike the back of the head. During the tackle, the back of the head is always right there, if you can strike the back of the head, people will think twice before attempt take down. UFC is not for the faint of heart.
 
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