Kicks Speed vs. Punches Speed

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sturmgewehr

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yyyy said:
You're trying to prove that kicks are faster than punches in a scientific way but you're method is simply incorrect. There are too many variables that you're not accounting for.

Put it this way:

Lets say we cloned Saenchai. We would have two subjects that weigh the same, have the same level of athleticism, same technique, etc.


If you make them stand in their fighting stances and tell the first subject to throw a kick (lets say a low kick) and tell the second subject to throw a punch (lets say a right cross), and both fighters start to throw their technique AT THE SAME TIME, the cross will land first.


of course that is because the punch compared to the low kick will have 2 times less distance to travel, even though I tend to think when watching fights that low kicks to the shin and inside thigh low kicks seem to be faster than punches.


yyyy said:
You're getting caught up in the "how many mph does the kick/punch travel" when, in reality, as mentioned earlier, those punches/kicks are being thrown in a rhythm and thus those figures aren't completely accurate.


So was Chad Dwason in a Rhythm when throwing 26 punches in 5 seconds and so what Amir Khan when Throwing those uppercuts in a rhythm.


That doesn't have to mean much cuz in Chad Dwason's case where he threw a SINGLE jab/straight his speed was measured 30 mph let's say 35 mph since I was reading that Speedometers and accelerometers have a error coefficient of 5 mph+-


Still in this Video where those guys' kicks are measured they didn't throw the kicks in Rhythem, they threw single kicks just like Chad Dwason did in this video where he threw 1 single punch where it was measured to be 30 something ft/second and then again they made him throw a barrage of punches but lets say that doesn't count since they were rhythmic, still even when they threw single strikes Kickboxers kicks were measured to have a WAY higher speed than Chad Dwason's Punch and these guys are pretty much the same weight.


yyyy said:
You're trying to convince people that just because the karate guy's kick goes at 70 mph and the MT guy's kick goes at 130 mph, it proves that kicks land faster than punches. This is wrong. The higher speed of the kicks justifies and explains why the kicks are more powerful than punches. It DOES NOT mean that they will land faster than a punch. Instead of digging up examples of sports science shows and kickboxers hitting dummies/pads, why don't you look up examples of when a kickboxer's kick landed before another kickboxer's punches (in a fight).


I agree with the Red Part, that is true.


Usually when a middle kick is thrown or a low kick is thrown it is fast and it is not very common to see the other guy countering him immediately even if he tries still the kick has a longer reach and in order the other guy to land the punch he needs to step in and by that time the Kickboxer steps out, I have trained kickboxing and we trained that when throwing low kicks or middle kicks we were supposed to move to the left and back so we don't get countered, of course someone really fast will counter u but usually when Kickboxers throw a kick they move a step back to the left so we don't get countered.






yyyy said:
Take this gif for example:


t6.2.gif



Alves and Howard represent two fighters with similar levels of athleticism, same weight, etc. Howard threw the kick and Alves reacted by throwing the right cross. Despite the fact that Howard's kick started first, Alves' right cross still managed to land before the kick.


That is because Alves is a way better fighter than Haward, can't compare Alves to Haward, a good example would be parts taken from fights like Rampage vs Rashad or Machida vs Shogun, Alves and Haward is not an adequate example, plus howard is not known for his flashy kicks, much more like Alves is the better kicker in that match, I believe Alves to have better kicks than Howard and I know Alves is more talented and a better fighter than Haward.





yyyy said:
You misunderstood me. I'm not saying that a punch accelerates faster than a punch. I'm just saying that a kick is slower in arriving to its target than a punch is.


yeah I agree due to the kick having more distance to travel.


yyyy said:
A kick may have a faster absolute speed than a punch, but that does not mean that the kick will land first. Who do you think will win a race: a guy who only runs at 5 mph but is 10 feet away from the finish line, or a guy who runs at 10 mph but is 50 feet away from the finish line? The punch has a shorter distance to travel and thus usually lands first.


I think I gave a similar example to this.


yyyy said:
Again, you're assuming that Dawson is equal to the kickboxing guys just because they "are the same weight".


Dwason in the boxing world is 10 times more relevant than that guy who threw the 130 miles per hour Muay Thai Kick, who the hell is that guy, no one knows him.


Dwason in the Boxing world is way more relevant than Levi Kurtovich who is a no one in the world of Muay Thai, now imagine how fast would throw someone more relevant in the world of Muay Thai.


And I think they are the same weight if not the Kickboxers weighting more. I read somewhere Levi Kurtovich weights 170 pounds.


yyyy said:
Mike Tyson and David Tua were approximately the same weight and yet there was a vast difference in their level of athleticism. Dawson was never particularly fast or athletic. As Snubnoze pointed out above, there's too many variables involved for me or you to simply use these sports science clips. I could put Manny Pacquiao (at 145 lbs) on that show and have him go up against a Leonard Garcia and claim that "oh, Pacquiao's punch went faster than Garcia's kick). It would be a flawed analysis on account of the disparity in their levels of athleticism.


That is true, and Levi Kurtovich in comparison to Chad Dwason who was the former WBC, IBF & IBO light heavyweight champion and is still 29 years old, pretty young, is a no one in the world of Muay Thai and still managed to Kick faster than Dwasons punch ( in terms of Speed, velocity and acceleration ).


yyyy said:
Here's the vid of Khan throwing those uppercuts:
Kammy Do It? Boxing | Sky Sports | Video | Boxing
Yes, he's using both hands, and yes, he has a shorter distance to travel but that's the entire point. A punch will land faster than a kick for that very reason.


Impressive :)


yyyy said:
When the hell did I say that Buakaw kicks faster than Senchai?


Maybe I got you wrong and you should have been more precise about what you said.
 

jks9199

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You seem rather obsessed with numbers and lab experiments. I don't think anybody has said that a kick can't move "faster" than a punch, in terms of feet/second or other similar measures. But that's not really a meaningful measure. You don't seem to be understanding that.

A kick requires much more body motion, more complex logistics to deliver successfully. Watch an MMA or kickboxing match. Except for thigh kicks, thrown at medium to close range, most of the kicks don't seem to land, do they? It amazes me how so many fighters seem to simply fling a leg up, hoping to land, rather than use a strategy to set up that kick. Many people can't throw an effective kick from medium to close range, as well. (Again, that thigh kick is an exception.) Look at how often a jab lands compared to a front kick... So, even though that front kick may indeed be "faster" than the jab -- effectively, it's not.

Let me try another analogy. The SR-71 Blackbird was many times faster than any other aircraft in the sky. (We still don't openly know it's top speed; without opening it up all the way, the final flight set records for flying from the West Coast to the East Coast.) And, for its jobs, it was fantastic. Unrivaled. The B-2 Spirit Stealth Bomber is much, much slower... but it can get in, and drop a bomb. Each had a place, but that didn't make one "better" than the other except if you defined the task. Kicks and punches each have their place and each is a great tool -- but that doesn't make one better than the other.
 

Zenjael

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It would seem to me that the higher you kick, the more gravity you have to fight. No matter what you do, the physics mandates that no matter where you generate the power from, the higher it is the more energy it will require to lift it.

That being said, this doesn't mean high kicks are weak. Even going a fraction of what I am capable of can cause the person's head to rock. If you don't have enough control, this could easily cause a concussion.

That you have to balance yourself before you throw a kick is a bunch of nonsense cuz you can't do that, there is no balance when u throw a kick, u stand in your Muay Thai Stance or Usual Kickboxing stance and u just shoot for a kick and when you throw the kick then you are out of balance since you are in one leg and I don't know if u been following kickboxing or Muay Thai but if u get caught with a punch or push kick while throwing a kick you will be flying like a bag of potatoes.

I disagree wholeheartedly. Even when you launch a kick, balance is required. I suppose you've never seen it happen, but some people overthrow a kick with force, and do not have the strength in the leg, or balance, to remain rooted and so end up throwing themselves along with the kick. It's rare, but it happens.

Balance occurs, and is required, at all points. But... with the execution of the technique, the shifting force through your body should cause the center of gravity to maintain itself. I've never tried it, and only now am just thinking about it, but I have never attempted to shift my center of gravity as I executed a technique. I am not even sure I can, to be honest.

Kicks to the middle of the body are the strongest, but there's not much to hit to be honest. I favor low or high kicks. Maybe 2/5ths of the time I'll do a mid level kick. What can I say, I'm a headhunter.

My question is if it is possible to do a front kick, or snap kick, in .5 of a second.
 

Touch Of Death

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It would seem to me that the higher you kick, the more gravity you have to fight. No matter what you do, the physics mandates that no matter where you generate the power from, the higher it is the more energy it will require to lift it.

That being said, this doesn't mean high kicks are weak. Even going a fraction of what I am capable of can cause the person's head to rock. If you don't have enough control, this could easily cause a concussion.



I disagree wholeheartedly. Even when you launch a kick, balance is required. I suppose you've never seen it happen, but some people overthrow a kick with force, and do not have the strength in the leg, or balance, to remain rooted and so end up throwing themselves along with the kick. It's rare, but it happens.

Balance occurs, and is required, at all points. But... with the execution of the technique, the shifting force through your body should cause the center of gravity to maintain itself. I've never tried it, and only now am just thinking about it, but I have never attempted to shift my center of gravity as I executed a technique. I am not even sure I can, to be honest.

Kicks to the middle of the body are the strongest, but there's not much to hit to be honest. I favor low or high kicks. Maybe 2/5ths of the time I'll do a mid level kick. What can I say, I'm a headhunter.

My question is if it is possible to do a front kick, or snap kick, in .5 of a second.
I haven't read anything else on this thread, but I would say you want to commit your body into a kick, as you would commit to any step-through. You can't counter-balance your way through life. LOL "To hit, you must commit!" :)
 

Cyriacus

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Unless He means like that, in which case, its just a different idealogy. As weird as I consider it to be :)
 
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Cyriacus

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I hate Bob's because they fall down when I hit them. :)

I remember being at a Gym once, and They had this Bob, just sitting there. So I just had to try it.
I essentially just stood with My feet parallel, and jammed out a punch, with no body rotation or anything. Just, Elbow Extention powered Punch. Other hand hanging relaxedly by My side.
The thing slowly fell back, and then dropped down, like it lost its balance and slipped, in slow motion.

I mean, in hindsight, it was more the push than the punch. And a bit of dumb luck.
But I just cant take the things seriously enough to every use one again :D
 

fightscience

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Go to www.partingtheclouds.com it provides a listing of kicking and punching speeds and also the maximum force of impact that can be expected.
The data is taken from the book "Parting the Clouds - The Science of the Martial Arts" which has very good reviews in Amazon.
Hope this helps
 

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