Attack strategy, measuring up your opponent

[DeLamar.J]

When its time fight, what is your strategy? Do you just react? and hope for the best. That is what I have been trained to do because thinking about what your going to do can slow you down alot. 90 % of what I do is just reacting but I do have a strategy I use. There are three ways I will approach a fight, saving the third for last because I dont prefur that type of fighting. My three strategys are SPG, speed, power, and grapple. Depending on the situation I will use either speed or power first.

My speed strategy is to start off with low risk, fast moves like jabs, front snap kicks, snapping a fast round house low to high, trying to see if I hold the speed and technique advantage. Normally if a person isnt used to being hit, they will just quit or fall down thinking there hurt when there really not. I will use evasive foot work to avoid the opponent, making them miss and countering with fast one two punch combinations, not putting my wieght into it or my hips, basicly feeling them out, not really trying to hurt them, hoping they will realize they are out classed and quit if Im lucky enough for the altercation to end that easily. Most of the thuggy wannabe types will quit if they feel they have any chance of loosing. This is basicly what I do when Im sparring.

If I am fighting someone who is faster than me, or with more reach,and I am having trouble getting inside with my speed strategy, then I resort to my boxing skills, and power kicking. I will use whats most populerly known as peek a boo boxing. Hands up guarding face at all times, lots of latteral movement, and throwing bombs with very bad intentions, trying to over power the faster taller fighter with the reach advantage. Knees and elbows if possible, I will aso throw alot of low roundhouse kicks to the knee with everything I have, that tends to be an easy move to get away with.

If all else fails, Im fighting a faster, and more powerful fighter, andst cant seem to come up with a good strategy, Im taking it to the ground, man I hate to ground fight but it is such an important part of the martial arts that I have to train for it. ARMBAR, SLEEPER HOLD, BLA bla bla. If I cant do it on the ground then I guess I will just have to take my beating like a man.

What type of strategies to you guys use? and what is your professional and or honest opinion of mine?

 

[Mark Weiser]

In Five Animal Kenpo we teach and learn that each fighter when attacking use one animal and that attack can be neutralized by using another animal form to redirect that attack. We train to gain distance from the attack if possible.

Crane Defeats Snake

Choke hold (Constriction aka Snake) by an opponent you would use lifting hands between the arms to make them let go and then elbow strikes to the neck and head (Crane) that is one example.

Mark E. Weiser

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

In Five Animal Kenpo we teach and learn that each fighter when attacking use one animal and that attack can be neutralized by using another animal form to redirect that attack. We train to gain distance from the attack if possible.

Crane Defeats Snake

Choke hold (Constriction aka Snake) by an opponent you would use lifting hands between the arms to make them let go and then elbow strikes to the neck and head (Crane) that is one example.

Mark E. Weiser

I was with ya up to this post...what in gods creation would cause you to believe that an experienced wrassler would throw a choke on you so poorly, that you'de be able to slip it off over your head like a t-shirt? In hundreds of hours of training, MMA challenge matches, and bar brawls, I have never in my life had someone (or seen anyone) try this thing you're describing with anything remotely resembling success. A grapplers rear choke -- be it BJJ, judo, shooto, etc., -- will typically doen with you in either of two positions: face down, with your legs grapevined and your body stretched out, throwing off any mechanical strength you may have and cancelling out the ability to throw elbows with any efficacy; or both people face up, chokEE on top, looking at the sky, still in a choke with legs grapevined and body stretched out.

A crappy choke is done with a constricting effort of the arms...this one, maybe (but I doubt it...most grapplers even do it wrong this way, and still wrestle/change position to get out). A proper choke will arrange the arms and wrists in an interlocking weave, then expand the chest and correct the posture, creating the net effect of making the hole your neck lives in (between the thorax and elbow crotches of the person choking you) very small. Held, the body of the chokER is mechanically sound, the position can be maintained against great resistance, and the choke can NOT be slipped off by upward pressure on the elbows. Even other grapplers know better, and work to slip free of the grapevine on one side so they can croc spin in the choke to a better mechanical position (closer to facing the guy who's gakking them). Why? because that choke AIN'T slipping off over the top while the guy strangling you is still directly posterior.

You may want to reconsider this technique as part of your reality-based kenpo. Experiment with it with trained grapplers who are intent on making you turn blue if you do it wrong.

D.

 

[Mark Weiser]

Again you the key word you said was Rear Choke hold I was speaking from a front choke hold lol sorry for the mix up.

On a rear choke hold there are several responses to use.

Depends on if you are using hands or an armbar choke.

 

[8253]

Planning is a good thing, but execution of that plan can be difficult. Personally if i believe that there is no way out except for a physical altercation I start going through the begining of different scenarios in my head while evaluating the size, speed, and possible strengths and weaknesses of the opponent. I do this personally to avoid making one plan and taking unnessissary punishment trying to stick to the one plan. After the initial movement though i act upon my opponents movements.

 

[Brother John]

Plan your training to the finest detail.
But in fighting, don't "predict".
1st: Respond by adapting to the needs of each moment.
2nd: Run the table. Take action so that you aren't playing "catch-up" to his decisions. Seize the initiative away from him so that HE is the one reacting to your actions.
IF you predict, you set yourself up to fail by the probability of being WRONG.
IF you know the attack, you might not know the target.
IF you know the target, you might not know the angle.
IF you know the angle, you might not know the strength.
IF you know the strength....
Then there's environment
Then there's the deception...
AND THEN: there's the PROBABILITY that any one of these elements OR MORE will change/alter midstream.
Just like we shouldn't have our bodies 'stop-action' freeze...
so we shouldn't freeze our minds by determining before-hand what's going to happen.
React like water. It doesn't determine beforehand the shape it will take as it flows across the rocks...it shapes to the rocks its currently on.

Your Brother
John

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

my measuring is simple. Does he have a pug nose from boxing, or cauliflower ears from grappling? Many arts are so heavily theory-based that they never log hour in strenuous contact. People who do wear signs of thier training on their bodies. Generally.

 

[Brother John]

Does he have a pug nose from boxing, or cauliflower ears from grappling? People who do wear signs of thier training on their bodies. Generally.

I had an instructor that called this the "Ugly factor".

true...

Your Brother
John

 

[kenpo tiger]

Plan your training to the finest detail.
But in fighting, don't "predict".
1st: Respond by adapting to the needs of each moment.
2nd: Run the table. Take action so that you aren't playing "catch-up" to his decisions. Seize the initiative away from him so that HE is the one reacting to your actions.
IF you predict, you set yourself up to fail by the probability of being WRONG.
IF you know the attack, you might not know the target.
IF you know the target, you might not know the angle.
IF you know the angle, you might not know the strength.
IF you know the strength....
Then there's environment
Then there's the deception...
AND THEN: there's the PROBABILITY that any one of these elements OR MORE will change/alter midstream.
Just like we shouldn't have our bodies 'stop-action' freeze...
so we shouldn't freeze our minds by determining before-hand what's going to happen.
React like water. It doesn't determine beforehand the shape it will take as it flows across the rocks...it shapes to the rocks its currently on.

Your Brother
John

Did I train with you in another life?

As usual, you make a lot of sense. All I could possibly add to your thoughts is you take the measure of your opponent and give him half again.

As to the thoughts expressed elsewhere upthread regarding assuming a boxer's stance in a fight, I don't know that I would do that against a kenpo person. I was originally taught to spar 'protecting the head like Bullwinkle the Moose' i.e., keeping your hands up and to the sides of your head. That works if the attacker is a boxer. Do it against someone who knows kenpo, and you're leaving a plethora of targets for me to attack. Especially someone like me, who, I am positive, is smaller than you are -- and a woman, so you'd discount me as a viable opponent. Most men do. Big mistake. We are far more motivated to try to hurt and maim you because of the damage you men can do to us.

The only measuring I do is how far to kick or rip your groin, gouge your eyes, half fist your Adam's Apple, and to the nearest police station.:asian: KT

 

[OULobo]

I agree with the whole can't predict attacks or scenarios. Formulated plans almost never really work in real conflict. I would say that when I size up a guy, it is for standard size and build, clues to personality (tats, dress, posture), possible opportunities (peircings, long hair), and possible available weapons, both on my opponent and aroud the room. It all boils down to awareness.

On the boxer's guard topic: Hands cover hands, legs cover legs. Just because I have my arms covering my face doesn't mean I'm not aware of groin strikes and low line targets, and it doesn't mean I don't have them covered. Not to attack KT, but, in my opinion things like groin strikes, eye gouges and throat shots are overrated and difficult in face to face active combat. At best I would call the diversions and distractions.

 

[kenpo tiger]

I agree with the whole can't predict attacks or scenarios. Formulated plans almost never really work in real conflict. I would say that when I size up a guy, it is for standard size and build, clues to personality (tats, dress, posture), possible opportunities (peircings, long hair), and possible available weapons, both on my opponent and aroud the room. It all boils down to awareness.

On the boxer's guard topic: Hands cover hands, legs cover legs. Just because I have my arms covering my face doesn't mean I'm not aware of groin strikes and low line targets, and it doesn't mean I don't have them covered. Not to attack KT, but, in my opinion things like groin strikes, eye gouges and throat shots are overrated and difficult in face to face active combat. At best I would call the diversions and distractions.

Better to divert and distract. As I also said, I have an advantage because I'm female and most guys will think THEY have the advantage. No offense taken - it's your opinion and you usually post good things.

 

[Flatlander]

Actually, the throat shot and groin strike are two very integral parts of my tool box. With trapping skill, a throat shot can end the game. Similarily, groin shots are just too easy to overlook, given their close proximity to my knee in trapping range. Eye gouges, I'll always try for, but more difficult to connect. People tend to overprotect their eyes, which makes the strike very useful as a feint.

Regarding the original question, I would like to try to imagine that I cjould sit and come up with a useful strategy, but I already know it doesn't go down this way. If I've ever had time to critically assess a situation that is escalating to combat, I've had enough time to de-escalate or get out, i.e; no combat.

Whenever it has gone to combat, I've been surprised, and its been all reaction.

 

[kenpo tiger]

Actually, the throat shot and groin strike are two very integral parts of my tool box. With trapping skill, a throat shot can end the game. Similarily, groin shots are just too easy to overlook, given their close proximity to my knee in trapping range. Eye gouges, I'll always try for, but more difficult to connect. People tend to overprotect their eyes, which makes the strike very useful as a feint.

Regarding the original question, I would like to try to imagine that I cjould sit and come up with a useful strategy, but I already know it doesn't go down this way. If I've ever had time to critically assess a situation that is escalating to combat, I've had enough time to de-escalate or get out, i.e; no combat.

Whenever it has gone to combat, I've been surprised, and its been all reaction.

Thank you, Flatlander. Fortunately I can only speak from a theoretical point of view, and I hope I never have to use my kenpo tool box! KT:asian:

 

[Enson]

Actually, the throat shot and groin strike are two very integral parts of my tool box. With trapping skill, a throat shot can end the game. Similarily, groin shots are just too easy to overlook, given their close proximity to my knee in trapping range. Eye gouges, I'll always try for, but more difficult to connect. People tend to overprotect their eyes, which makes the strike very useful as a feint.

Regarding the original question, I would like to try to imagine that I cjould sit and come up with a useful strategy, but I already know it doesn't go down this way. If I've ever had time to critically assess a situation that is escalating to combat, I've had enough time to de-escalate or get out, i.e; no combat.

Whenever it has gone to combat, I've been surprised, and its been all reaction.

i have to admit throat and groin are the ones i go for first. naturally if you can't get them... run!!!!! hee hee! i train for both. it depends on the situation. if you have time to stratigize than do it, but what about being attacked from the back. reactions are funny. it doesn't take a maist to do it. i once scared this girl-friend of mine when i jumped out in front of her. she reacted by screaming and swatting me down. yes i have been beat by a girl. hee hee!