Joe Palanzo, Rank, and Other Kenpo Gossip

kidswarrior said:
To my AA Brother with 18 months (who wishes to remain anonymous--or just forgot to leave name :D), congrats on the 18 month birthday, and thanks for the rep! :)

Now, we'll give the semi-hijacked thread back. :D
Click to expand...

Congrats to both of you for that. No easy task.

SGM Parker died suddenly. Yes, he had a premonition that he was going to pass away, hence is writing of Infinite Insights but that doesn't really take away from the fact that he passed away quickly and unexpectedly.

Emotions run very very high at funerals. For awhile, my mother accused me of not attending my dad's funeral. Not only was I there, I sang at it.

Sometimes reality gets distorted. Sometimes people say things they regret. Losing someone you care about never gets easy.

For as awesome as Mr. Parker's senior students are, they are human.

Mr. Palanzo has continued his Kenpo career without dwelling upon what was or wasn't said 17 years ago. Perhaps we shouldn't either.
 
parkerkarate said:
Just thought I would put an end to this one before it would go off track.

http://www.wkka.org/articles_02.html
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Just when the subject almost died, you had to follow the dictums of ego and put fuel on the fire. The link you posted would constitute -- in a court of law -- "hearsay", and be inadmissable as evidence. There were 8ths already out there, signed by Mr.P with wet sigs. There were people, with witnesses, privvy to entirely different conversations with Mr. P. regarding promotions. There are many who claimed promotions, and claimed witnesses, only to find out later that the "witnesses" didn't know what the heck the claimant was talking about.

The successorship claims are ridiculous, and better left DEAD! "Perceptual acuity" would have shown the idea had petered out. Shoulda left it that way.

Mr. Palanzo's rhetoric is just that; his rhetoric. Let. the. dead. dog. sleep. The rest of us are trying to.

Dave
 
parkerkarate said:
Just thought I would put an end to this one before it would go off track.

http://www.wkka.org/articles_02.html
Click to expand...


The "successor" claim is the most laughable topic ever. I've heard so much on this topic it gets a little tired at times.

--Tatum is the successor because he was the "key" protege
--Palanzo and Tom Kelly are the successor's because they were proteges and Tatum and Parker had a fall out
--Huk Planas is the successor because he helped develop much of the system along with Mr. Parker and Mr. Tom Kelly.
--Frank Trejo is the successor because he excelled at forms and fighting
--Mr. Trejo can't be the successor because he was Mr. Planas' brown belt along with Mr. Tatum at one point.
--"Huk" can't be the successor because he was predated and taught by Mr. Labounty
--Mr. Mills is the successor because he was Mr. Parker's "secret weapon" the "smiling guillotine" during those frequent trips to Wyoming
--Mr. Mills can't be the successor because he is doing his own system
--Doc is the successor because he has been around the "longest"
--Doc can't be the successor because he is doing his own thing
--Ed Parker, Jr. is the successor because he is Mr. Parker's son
--Ed Parker, Jr. can't be the successor because he isn't a black belt
--Ed Parker, Jr. is now a black belt
--Ed Parker, Jr. is a black belt now but isn't "senior" enough
-- Mike Pick is the successor because Mr. Parker promoted him with his own belt.
--Mr. Pick can't be the successor because he wasn't even the most senior or highest ranked when Mr. Parker died
--Jim Mitchell is the successor because he was chosen to video tape the entire system for Mr. Parker.
--Jim Mitchell can't be the successor for the same reason as Mr. Pick
--The successor has to be doing Kenpo EXACTLY as Mr. Parker left it
--Mr. Pick is doing his own thing as are Doc and Mr. Mills so they are out.
--Mr. Labounty is doing his own thing.
--Mr. Palanzo and Mr. Kelly just revised how they are delivering the system
--Mr. Planas is teaching "old" kenpo one minute and then the next minute is adding filipino influences (which is it? can't be both). So his kenpo is either too old or too new to be the successor.
--Ed Parker, Jr. is content to be a part of the Kenpo Community as a WHOLE
--Mr. Conatser is the successor because Doc says he knows the written material better than anyone
--Mr. Conatser can't be it based on Doc's vote because there is no "proof" Doc trained with Mr. Parker.
--Pictures in infinite "insights" and video in "sophisticated basics" doesn't count
--Chuck Sullivan can't be the successor for the afore-mentioned, changed the system rule.
--How come Mr. Bob White's name never comes up? He was a 7th as well during the time of Mr. Parker's passing.
--Mr. Pick developed the Kenpo Knife material with Mr. Parker along with Forms 9 and 10.
--That can't be entirely true because Mr. Parker developed the knife material with Mr. Mills
--Both are irrelevant as the knife material was not in infinite insights and therefore never existed.
--therefore neither did Sub-Level 4
--If it wasn't in Infinite Insights it's not valid so any one doing "new" takes on kenpo or system modifications are not valid as successors.
--Therefore no SL-4, 16 tech system, Kenpo Knifes, Karambits, etc. count.
--Therefore everyone who was a 7th at the time of Mr. Parker's passing (and the one's who weren't) are discounted.
--Conclusion: All Seniors are invalidated for multiple reasons. No successor available....until someone else (or the same usual suspects again) decides that whoever they are under THIS YEAR is NOW the successor. And the cycle repeats itself.

I guess the cycle is repeating itself again....sigh.
 
parkerkarate said:
Wow thanks for trying to tell me what is what. But I have it from the man himself and I will just leave it at that.
Click to expand...

I'm not convinced you have it from the man as it is an article on Joe Palanzo's web site and to me that seems it could be a touch biased. I studied American Kenpo for about 3 years and the amount of politics throughout the art far surpasses any I have witnessed anywhere else. I say if you are happy with your instructor and his side of the story stay with him; if not move on. Seventeen years is a long time. I have heard a lot of stuff about a lot of American Kenpo seniors yet their organisations are still as strong as ever so I guess they are doing something right. There was no named successor, that seems to be a fact. Even if there was I think there would still be politics. Look at Kyokushin, Mas Oyama left a successor and still the art splintered and I guarentee the American(western) ego is far more fragile than that of the Japanese.

Cheers
Sam:asian:
 
thetruth said:
I'm not convinced you have it from the man as it is an article on Joe Palanzo's web site and to me that seems it could be a touch biased. I studied American Kenpo for about 3 years and the amount of politics throughout the art far surpasses any I have witnessed anywhere else. I say if you are happy with your instructor and his side of the story stay with him; if not move on. Seventeen years is a long time. I have heard a lot of stuff about a lot of American Kenpo seniors yet their organisations are still as strong as ever so I guess they are doing something right. There was no named successor, that seems to be a fact. Even if there was I think there would still be politics. Look at Kyokushin, Mas Oyama left a successor and still the art splintered and I guarentee the American(western) ego is far more fragile than that of the Japanese.

Cheers
Sam:asian:
Click to expand...

I'll give you a positive rep for that post, but you might as well save your breath. That's one of Mr. Palanzo's devoted followers you're preaching to who believes every utterance he hears in favor of Mr. Palanzo and denounces anything that may show Mr. Palanzo in any negative light (except his own complaints, those are fine). It hasn't crossed his mind yet that to hear it from "the man" it would have to be hearing from Mr. Parker's lips. But let's not drag the Parker family into this, let it die for godsakes. Let's leave our egos and agendas at the door and think for ourselves instead of beleiving everything we are told blindly.
 
thetruth said:
I'm not convinced you have it from the man as it is an article on Joe Palanzo's web site and to me that seems it could be a touch biased. I studied American Kenpo for about 3 years and the amount of politics throughout the art far surpasses any I have witnessed anywhere else. I say if you are happy with your instructor and his side of the story stay with him; if not move on. Seventeen years is a long time. I have heard a lot of stuff about a lot of American Kenpo seniors yet their organisations are still as strong as ever so I guess they are doing something right. There was no named successor, that seems to be a fact. Even if there was I think there would still be politics. Look at Kyokushin, Mas Oyama left a successor and still the art splintered and I guarentee the American(western) ego is far more fragile than that of the Japanese.

Cheers
Sam:asian:
Click to expand...
With the scuicide rates for faliure, I beg to differ.
Sean
 
I think I get it.

Sam/TheTruth posits that the American ego is more fragile than the Japanese ego.

Sean/Touch of Death disagrees, stating the high Japanese suicide rate and describing how the trigger for many of these suicides is failure at a task.
 
ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Please, keep the conversation polite and respectful.

-Mike Slosek
-MT Asst. Admin-
 
Given American Kenpo is American (what a revelation) I used the term American ego. I did have western in brackets though. I'm not sure how the suicide rate in Japan is related to what I said. I don't believe that there would be too many Japanese who suicided cos their ego was bruised. I think their views on honour, pride and shame within their society is a little deeper than that.

I don't mean to make assumptions but I think it would be safe to say that there wouldn't be another art on the planet that splintered they way American Kenpo did after the founder died. I also haven't heard as many rumours about those within an art than I have about American Kenpo. I honestly don't believe that Mr Parker gave anyone the title, nor had he discussed it in any great detail with anyone.

I think it would be silly to keep arguing about who should have taken over. Even if somewhere in Mr Parkers belongings there was a piece of paper with the name of who he wanted to take over on it, too much water has passed under the bridge to rectify the art that was and unify everyone anyway.

If you like the kenpo you learn great, enjoy it, embrace it and try the best you can to avoid the external politics outside of your particular organisation.

And Hongkongfooey, that once upon a time crack was quite amusing

Cheers
Sam:asian:
 
thetruth said:
Given American Kenpo is American (what a revelation) I used the term American ego. I did have western in brackets though. I'm not sure how the suicide rate in Japan is related to what I said. I don't believe that there would be too many Japanese who suicided cos their ego was bruised. I think their views on honour, pride and shame within their society is a little deeper than that.

I don't mean to make assumptions but I think it would be safe to say that there wouldn't be another art on the planet that splintered they way American Kenpo did after the founder died. I also haven't heard as many rumours about those within an art than I have about American Kenpo. I honestly don't believe that Mr Parker gave anyone the title, nor had he discussed it in any great detail with anyone.

I think it would be silly to keep arguing about who should have taken over. Even if somewhere in Mr Parkers belongings there was a piece of paper with the name of who he wanted to take over on it, too much water has passed under the bridge to rectify the art that was and unify everyone anyway.

If you like the kenpo you learn great, enjoy it, embrace it and try the best you can to avoid the external politics outside of your particular organisation.

And Hongkongfooey, that once upon a time crack was quite amusing

Cheers
Sam:asian:
Click to expand...

Couldn't rep ya again so I'll just post. Good Stuff and as I stole from Dave and Robert "Ayup"
 
ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Second and Final Moderator Warning:

Please keep the conversation polite and respectful and return to the original topic of the thread.

Thank you.

Lisa Deneka
MT Assist. Admin
 
OK, I'll rephrase it in a 'better' way. On the issue of Mr. Palanzo, the rank, the gossip etc. all the "facts" presented have been hearsay and need to be left in that realm and dropped. The article presented is (to put it mildly) the personal account of the very person in question that is only verifiable by said individual and other members of his camp (in fact the article was presented by someone not only from the same camp but under his employ as well.). In short, it lacks any absolute or verifiable credibility and substance. Laymen's terms "He said, she said." The sad part is that the person in question is not the only person in the Kenpo world with that same story (albeit with minor differences). Both stories (I was the next in line to be promoted) cannot be true at the same time so who (if anyone) is telling the truth? No actual facts have been presented in all this time so it's all moot anyway....it's been 17 years. If we haven't figured out yet that Black belt ranks don't go 1,2,3,4,10 or 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,10 by now we aren't going to figure out the rest either.
 
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