I'm sorry, but this whole "Anti-Grappling" thing horrifies me

[drop bear]

You can't tell me Wrestling doesn't have COG?

Tan in the vid is how beginners learn it. Tan Sao is really an idea? You can move all you like. Under hook over hook. It really makes no difference. Why? Because the idea stays the same.

Center of gravity is a thing not a concept.

Ok. How does tan say become an overhook or underhook?

 

[Jake104]

For the time it takes to sprawl out of a takedown yes. Because that is the most effective method of stopping it.

So are you going to bother with ideas like shrimping and sit outs? Or are they technique driven and not concept driven?

Depends on who's doing it and how you look at it? I've said it before and I'll say it again. Good fighting is good fighting!

 

[Jake104]

Center of gravity is a thing not a concept.

Ok. How does tan say become an overhook or underhook?

I didn't say a tan becomes an under hook or over hook? But since your asking? Here's a tan over hook to under hook example. We are in the clinch I'm on the outside. I drop my elbow with forward intent. Now I'm shoulder cranking you. You use a technique to relieve the pressure on your shoulder. But I still have a foward bead on you. I'm tracking your energy . Guess what then I go into a different lock. Sounds like lock flow?

 

[Jake104]

Center of gravity is a thing not a concept.

Ok. How does tan say become an overhook or underhook?

COG by itself is a "thing" . The concept part comes in when you are trying to do something with the thing. Move it, control it manipulate it? Or is that technique?

 

[Jake104]

I didn't say a tan becomes an under hook or over hook? But since your asking? Here's a tan over hook to under hook example. We are in the clinch I'm on the outside. I drop my elbow with forward intent. Now I'm shoulder cranking you. You use a technique to relieve the pressure on your shoulder. But I still have a foward bead on you. I'm tracking your energy . Guess what then I go into a different lock. Sounds like lock flow?

Here's my original example of using a tan to stop an under hook throw.

We are in the clinch. You arm drag my right arm with your left. Then you step in under hook that same arm with your right arm. Then you lift push your hip/ butt and throw. Let's rewind to when you just under hooked right to right. You start to push your butt/hip into me to break my structure and lift me? I press your left hip with my full body elbow in tan. Guess what ain't happening. I end up breaking your structure before you break mine. Oh yeah, plus I'll have your back as a bonus of not being thrown. Theres two examples.

 

[Hanzou]

The OP video is very similar to this. Both seem like after thoughts to systems of fighting lacking in certain areas...

1. That's pretty standard unarmed knife defense. It's pretty much found in all MA systems.

2. As far as I know, those guys aren't selling a knife defense DVD, and saying that their unarmed knife defense system works against expert knife users.

 

[Jake104]

Sounds like that's what they are saying. At the end of the video they say to go to there combative site to learn more.

 

[Jake104]

Just admit both videos are fantasy. Why make excuses? Im owning the WC video as such. Why can't you grapplers just own that as fantasy? I'm not saying the Gracie's suck at fighting. Just knife defense. Lol

 

[Steve]

Here's my original example of using a tan for an under hook throw.

We are in the clinch. You arm drag my right arm with your left. Then you step in under hook that same arm with your right arm. Then you lift push your hip/ butt and throw. Let's rewind to when you just under hooked right to right. You start to push your butt/hip into me to break my structure and lift me? I press your left hip with my full body elbow in tan. Guess what ain't happening. I end up breaking your structure before you break mine. Oh yeah, plus I'll have your back as a bonus of not being thrown. Theres two examples.

Jake, do you work these things out with guys who are experienced, trained grapplers?

 

[Hanzou]

Just admit both videos are fantasy. Why make excuses? Im owning the WC video as such. Why can't you grapplers just own that as fantasy?

Uh, because it's not the same thing. Bjj knife defense is just as "effective" as the unarmed knife defenses you see in every MA.

 

[Jake104]

Jake, do you work these things out with guys who are experienced, trained grapplers?

Yes! Otherwise I WOULD NOT of posted. Wrestlers Grapplers and MMA. I train with DTEMMA. I like grappling. I just think there's a lot of overlapping ideas at play. In all MA.

 

[Jake104]

Uh, because it's not the same thing. Bjj knife defense is just as "effective" as the unarmed knife defenses you see in every MA.

Ok don't own it then. It's all good?

 

[Jake104]

It's fantasy. So BJJ has a little fantasy in it too? Just like the fantasy grappling defense in Op

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Here's my original example of using a tan to stop an under hook throw.

We are in the clinch. You arm drag my right arm with your left. Then you step in under hook that same arm with your right arm. Then you lift push your hip/ butt and throw. Let's rewind to when you just under hooked right to right. You start to push your butt/hip into me to break my structure and lift me? I press your left hip with my full body elbow in tan. Guess what ain't happening. I end up breaking your structure before you break mine. Oh yeah, plus I'll have your back as a bonus of not being thrown. Theres two examples.

It seems like you may talk about something "similar to" this:

In

- WC, you may call it "Tan Shou",
- Taij, it's called "diagonal fly",
- Shuai Chiao, it's called "Kao".

IMO, it's the best counter to be used to deal with the "arm drag". I would call this the true "anti-grappling".

 

[Steve]

Yes! Otherwise I WOULD NOT of posted. Wrestlers Grapplers and MMA. I train with DTEMMA.

Whoa. Don't yell at me, tough guy. Just asking a question.

So, Surely, since you train in MMA, you know that there is a big difference between a sound technique and the ability to execute that technique. What I worry about is when strikers talk about techniques that sound good on paper, but no one has the experience or ability to execute them.

 

[Jake104]

Whoa. Don't yell at me, tough guy. Just asking a question.

So, Surely, since you train in MMA, you know that there is a big difference between a sound technique and the ability to execute that technique. What I worry about is when strikers talk about techniques that sound good on paper, but no one has the experience or ability to execute them.

I'm not yelling. I like you Steve! You are right. You have to test it's. My first post on this thread was. Make sure you use real grapplers and not impersonators. We are on the same page I think.!!!!!!'lol

 

[Jake104]

It seems like you may talk about something "similar to" this:

In

- WC, you may call it "Tan Shou",
- Taij, it's called "diagonal fly",
- Shuai Chiao, it's called "Kao".

IMO, it's the best counter to be used to deal with the "arm drag". I would call this the true "anti-grappling".

Good forward intent goes a long way in stopping things. I was describing a over the shoulder type throw. But same thing. It really wouldn't matter what throw, if the forward energy was good. In essence that's what the guy in video was using. An idea.

 

[Jake104]

Ok I'm purple belt in here now. Its time to spend time with the wife now. Until we meet again!

 

[Vajramusti]

It seems like you may talk about something "similar to" this:

In

- WC, you may call it "Tan Shou",
- Taij, it's called "diagonal fly",
- Shuai Chiao, it's called "Kao".

IMO, it's the best counter to be used to deal with the "arm drag". I would call this the true "anti-grappling".

-----------------------------
a good demo

 

[drop bear]

Yes! Otherwise I WOULD NOT of posted. Wrestlers Grapplers and MMA. I train with DTEMMA. I like grappling. I just think there's a lot of overlapping ideas at play. In all MA.

There is. But you are working backwards. You are trying to make wrestling and ground work fit the principles that you are familiar with.

Rather than taking on board the principles that have been developed by the people who are good at it.

This is what fundamentally makes anti grappling the disaster it generally is.