I learned my first punch trick and I’m so happy

[Shugyosha23 18]

Okay this might sound strange coming from a grown man, but hear me out.

Technically in my lineage I believe it’s called standing cover 1( I was so focused on learning the move but I looked it up on my sheet).

My Sigung is away this weekend so one of my Sibak’s taught me. They really know their stuff and communicated well so I believe I’ve retained 90%+ of what I learned. After coming home I changed etc and after relaxing for a bit I practiced it in the air.

I have to say since I’ve started Kajukenbo I’ve really come to enjoy it. I’m the only adult white belt (maybe some of the teens are technically 18 but I haven’t asked) but everyone treats me nice and is encouraging. I’m not a guy who’s big on community but it’s really nice how respectful the kids (teens) are. My sigung or sibaks don’t talk down to me or make me feel like I don’t know what I’m doing.

I came into karate as an adult because I was interested in in power to refine one’s charactee while providing a means towards health and self defense. I can see the fruit of Kenpo in my classmates and instructors.

Likewise my Uechi senseis and senpais but we’re all adults (job wife kid adults) are amazing and I plan to train with him until I’ve finished the curriculum past black belt and teach that how he taught me. However Kajukenbo is showing me both a different way of looking at things and is a complete compliment. And, when I’m training one or another I have a white belt mind and make sure to do as I’m being taught. It’s cool to see teens be so respectful and helpful.

Anyway, I guess why I’m so happy, is that I’m finally learning something I’ve been curious about for DECADES and it’s been a great experience so far.

I have a lot of experience in non traditional martial arts and my foray in Karate and Kajukenbo has been surprisingly productive coming from an MMA perspective.

Anyway, peace Ohana, I’m gonna slam another buckskin and rest up for work.

 

[Shugyosha23 18]

So I learned the first few movements of palama 1 in class today. Felt really cool to learn. Hopefully I’ll learn the rest this week.

 

[HighKick]

So I learned the first few movements of palama 1 in class today. Felt really cool to learn. Hopefully I’ll learn the rest this week.

I am not familiar with your style, but it is super cool to hear about someone starting the journey. Well done.

 

[Shugyosha23 18]

I am not familiar with your style, but it is super cool to hear about someone starting the journey. Well done.

The chain of command is Sijo-GGM Halbuna-GM Bianchi-Sigung Troconis

 

[Flying Crane]

The chain of command is Sijo-GGM Halbuna-GM Bianchi-Sigung Troconis

Is Mr. Troconis your direct teacher?

 

[Shugyosha23 18]

Is Mr. Troconis your direct teacher?

Yes

 

[Flying Crane]

Yes

Ok, then the proper term is Sifu. These are terms that describe a specific relationship between two specific people. Your teacher is Sifu. Your teacher’s teacher is Sigung. These are not simply titles like “master” or “grandmaster.” They describe the specific relationship. So if Chinese terms are being used, Mr. Bianchi is your Sigung and Mr. Troconis is your Sifu. But to Mr. Troconis, Mr. Bianchi is Sifu. The same person can have a different title depending on the person with whom they have a relationship. This is the same way that your grandfather is your father’s father. Same person has a different title depending on the person with whom the relationship is held.

 

[Shugyosha23 18]

Ok, then the proper term is Sifu. These are terms that describe a specific relationship between two specific people. Your teacher is Sifu. Your teacher’s teacher is Sigung. These are not simply titles like “master” or “grandmaster.” They describe the specific relationship. So if Chinese terms are being used, Mr. Bianchi is your Sigung and Mr. Troconis is your Sifu. But to Mr. Troconis, Mr. Bianchi is Sifu. The same person can have a different title depending on the person with whom they have a relationship. This is the same way that your grandfather is your father’s father. Same person has a different title depending on the person with whom the relationship is held.

At his rank he’s a Sigung now. I know he’s my direct “Sifu” in the same sense he’s my coach my sensei, chief or any other title denoting direct instructor. He uses the Sigung title and I use what he prefers. I believe in our lineage Black Belt-3rd degree Sibak, 3rd-6th(?) Sifu, and 6-8th Sigung. I might be off a Dan rank here or there. I think this is specific to Bianchi lineage of the Halbuna line. GM Bianchi has returned to training “orthodox” Halbuna branch so his newer students might use different titles. I hope someone in the know might clarify otherwise I’ll ask on Tuesday

 

[Flying Crane]

At his rank he’s a Sigung now. I know he’s my direct “Sifu” in the same sense he’s my coach my sensei, chief or any other title denoting direct instructor. He uses the Sigung title and I use what he prefers. I believe in our lineage Black Belt-3rd degree Sibak, 3rd-6th(?) Sifu, and 6-8th Sigung. I might be off a Dan rank here or there. I think this is specific to Bianchi lineage of the Halbuna line. GM Bianchi has returned to training “orthodox” Halbuna branch so his newer students might use different titles. I hope someone in the know might clarify otherwise I’ll ask on Tuesday

Ok, then they are making a decision to use the terms and assign a meaning to them in a way that is contrary to what they actually mean. When people like me who train in a Chinese method see the terms misused like that, it makes us scratch our heads and sometimes speak up.

Since you mentioned it, Sibok is another title that describes a specific relationship. I believe it is your Sifu’s classmate, so it would be your kung fu uncle. These are not titles that one simply gets as they progress. They describe the specific relationship between two specific people.

Sijo also has a meaning, it might mean founder of a method, but I don’t recall specifically.

The Kajukenbo lineages have always had a reputation for solid training. But it seems they are making a decision to creatively redefine some Chinese terms and titles and use them in their own way, which is inconsistent with what they actually mean.

 

[Shugyosha23 18]

Ok, then they are making a decision to use the terms and assign a meaning to them in a way that is contrary to what they actually mean. When people like me who train in a Chinese method see the terms misused like that, it makes us scratch our heads and sometimes speak up.

Since you mentioned it, Sibok is another title that describes a specific relationship. I believe it is your Sifu’s classmate, so it would be your kung fu uncle. These are not titles that one simply gets as they progress. They describe the specific relationship between two specific people.

Sijo also has a meaning, it might mean founder of a method, but I don’t recall specifically.

The Kajukenbo lineages have always had a reputation for solid training. But it seems they are making a decision to creatively redefine some Chinese terms and titles and use them in their own way, which is inconsistent with what they actually mean.

I totally get that. I’m not too caught up on it. I also study Uechi Ryu (which is considered Kenpo in the classical Okinawan sense) and BJJ currently, and have studied Jeet Kune Do when I was younger. I know Kajukenbo might come across as strange from a Classical Chinese perspective but if we take the art for what it is, it’s an extremely powerful synthesis and fluid expression of the Kenpo/Kungfu tradition. If i were to go to Zhitian village and study Huzunquan I’d use Saihu

 

[Flying Crane]

I totally get that. I’m not too caught up on it. I also study Uechi Ryu (which is considered Kenpo in the classical Okinawan sense) and BJJ currently, and have studied Jeet Kune Do when I was younger. I know Kajukenbo might come across as strange from a Classical Chinese perspective but if we take the art for what it is, it’s an extremely powerful synthesis and fluid expression of the Kenpo/Kungfu tradition. If i were to go to Zhitian village and study Huzunquan I’d use Saihu

Ok, as long as you understand what is going on.

 

[Shugyosha23 18]

One of my martial arts inspirations is Sense Michael Calandra who practices Isshin Ryu. He also teaches Feeding Crane from Taiwan and Pracrical Method Taichi. He prefers everyone just calls him sensei. I think it’s okay for instructors to choose their preferred title. As long as they’re not jumping ranks or anything I think it’s fine.

 

[Shugyosha23 18]

Ok, as long as you understand what is going on.

Thank you. White Crane is cool. Do you practice a Fujian style?

 

[Buka38 13]

One of my martial arts inspirations is Sense Michael Calandra who practices Isshin Ryu. He also teaches Feeding Crane from Taiwan and Pracrical Method Taichi. He prefers everyone just calls him sensei. I think it’s okay for instructors to choose their preferred title. As long as they’re not jumping ranks or anything I think it’s fine.

I live in Hawaii but I trained Kajukenbo in Massachusetts and never here. I’ve also trained Kenpo and Uechi.

For me, I address my teachers any way they prefer. If I didn’t respect them as a Martial Artist I wouldn’t have trained under them in the first place.

Keep training, man. It just keeps getting
better.

 

[Flying Crane]

Thank you. White Crane is cool. Do you practice a Fujian style?

I do not. I practice the Tibetan style. Fujian and Tibetan crane methods are not related; they were developed by different people who found inspiration in the crane in their own ways, and developed independent methods based on those inspirations.

The Fujian methods are much more compact, and I believe were an ancestor of Wing Chun, in addition to influencing the development of Okinawan karate. I know there are several Fujian methods but I know very little about them or about how they are related or connected. I don’t know if they are actually independent methods that developed separately from each other, or if they are branches or sub-styles of a single ancestor style, or what the relationship is. To my memory, there is feeding crane, calling crane, flying crane and sleeping crane. But that’s about all I know.

The Tibetan method is one of three related methods that all branched from an original Tibetan system known as “Lion’s Roar.” To my knowledge, this original method is extinct, but I always hesitate to say that because it is certainly possible that some lineage of the original method is still practiced in Tibet somewhere and we have simply never seen it because nobody has brought it into the West. The other two methods are Hop Ga and Lama Pai. These three methods split long enough ago that they have developed separately in their own ways, but still maintain fundamental similarities that identify the relationship. All of them are relatively rare in the West, compared to some styles that are commonly found.

Tibetan crane is a long-arm style, which means it uses movements that might be considered very big and exaggerated. This is a training method that encourages the development and understanding of full-body connection, which leads to very powerful techniques. Once this full-body connection is understood, it becomes possible to deliver the same power with much smaller movement. The big movements make it easier to learn how to do it. We aren’t unique in this, but our methodology is unique and that is what identifies our style as a distinct method.

In some ways, Tibetan crane is similar to other long-arm methods like Choy Lay Fut.

 

[Kung Fu Wang124 154]

I believe in our lineage Black Belt-3rd degree Sibak, 3rd-6th(?) Sifu, and 6-8th Sigung.

- Shibo 师伯 is Shifu's senior brother.
- Shishu 师叔 is Shifu's junior brother.
- Shigong 师公 is Shifu's father. It has nothing to do with rank.

 

[isshinryuronin13 13]

The Fujian methods are much more compact, and I believe were an ancestor of Wing Chun, in addition to influencing the development of Okinawan karate.

The above is true but there is also northern Chinese influence on Okinawan karate. (I know this is not the main topic, but worth mentioning as a karate history nerd.) With the destruction of the Shaolin temples by the Qing dynasty and the persecution of the monks who sided with the Ming losers, many of the monks made their way south to the Fujian region, taking their Monk fist/Luohan style with them. As a result, some of this got assimilated into Fujian styles. Also, a few of the "Grandfathers of karate" did study in Beijing and its harder, more military northern style in addition to the Fujian styles.

 

[Shugyosha23 18]

I do not. I practice the Tibetan style. Fujian and Tibetan crane methods are not related; they were developed by different people who found inspiration in the crane in their own ways, and developed independent methods based on those inspirations.

The Fujian methods are much more compact, and I believe were an ancestor of Wing Chun, in addition to influencing the development of Okinawan karate. I know there are several Fujian methods but I know very little about them or about how they are related or connected. I don’t know if they are actually independent methods that developed separately from each other, or if they are branches or sub-styles of a single ancestor style, or what the relationship is. To my memory, there is feeding crane, calling crane, flying crane and sleeping crane. But that’s about all I know.

The Tibetan method is one of three related methods that all branched from an original Tibetan system known as “Lion’s Roar.” To my knowledge, this original method is extinct, but I always hesitate to say that because it is certainly possible that some lineage of the original method is still practiced in Tibet somewhere and we have simply never seen it because nobody has brought it into the West. The other two methods are Hop Ga and Lama Pai. These three methods split long enough ago that they have developed separately in their own ways, but still maintain fundamental similarities that identify the relationship. All of them are relatively rare in the West, compared to some styles that are commonly found.

Tibetan crane is a long-arm style, which means it uses movements that might be considered very big and exaggerated. This is a training method that encourages the development and understanding of full-body connection, which leads to very powerful techniques. Once this full-body connection is understood, it becomes possible to deliver the same power with much smaller movement. The big movements make it easier to learn how to do it. We aren’t unique in this, but our methodology is unique and that is what identifies our style as a distinct method.

In some ways, Tibetan crane is similar to other long-arm methods like Choy Lay Fut.

That’s why I asked. There’s also a northern crane system that’s unrelated

 

[Shugyosha23 18]

The above is true but there is also northern Chinese influence on Okinawan karate. (I know this is not the main topic, but worth mentioning as a karate history nerd.) With the destruction of the Shaolin temples by the Qing dynasty and the persecution of the monks who sided with the Ming losers, many of the monks made their way south to the Fujian region, taking their Monk fist/Luohan style with them. As a result, some of this got assimilated into Fujian styles. Also, a few of the "Grandfathers of karate" did study in Beijing and its harder, more military northern style in addition to the Fujian styles.

Yes the Ming would send diplomats to check in on Okinawa because it was one of their territories so all those politicians and bodyguards came from
Beijing to Okinawa sharing northern styles. Kusanku of kata fame was one such individuals.

The relevance to Kajukenbo- I saw a really strong shorin ryu expression via the Karate, Kenpo and Chinese Boxing. I study a Fujian/Okinawan style that doesn’t contain any monk fist outside of whatever made its way into Fujian Tiger. Being exposed to Monk fist traditions via Kajukenbo the emphasis on conditioning and the training exercises I’ve been doing have just made my karate stronger.

At the end of the day, it’s all Tode Kenpo jutsu to me, as long as the training is legit and follows the underlying ethical principles found in Chinese/Okinawan works like the bubishi

 

[Flying Crane]

That’s why I asked. There’s also a northern crane system that’s unrelated

I’m not familiar with any northern crane. What do you know about it?