I'm sorry, but this whole "Anti-Grappling" thing horrifies me

[Xue Sheng101]

I asked for a video because someone stated that they perform something that's unusual. I wanted to see this unusual act. That unusual act also pertained to the topic.

I'm a Bjj purple belt. What's unusual about that and how does it pertain to the topic?

Since you have brought this up a couple times...... who is this purple belt in BJJ from, whose system Gracie, Machado, Cavalcanti, etc.?

 

[PiedmontChun]

Because the portrayal of grappling in those vids is rather insulting to the art I practice.

Then you take it far too personal.

 

[Hanzou]

Since you have brought this up a couple times...... who is this purple belt in BJJ from, whose system Gracie, Machado, Cavalcanti, etc.?

Gracie. Mostly Relson.

 

[Drose427]

Gracie. Mostly Relson.

I assume this will be his next question so I'll ask it

From him directly, or at least a school he frequents in order to keep standards, or one just using his name?

The latter can be questionable, if his standards arent upheld affiliations to him mean little. It happens a lot in just about all MA's, Bob trained under superfist, cuts all ties to open his own school, lets standards plummet.

To be fair, Relson does go around to his schools to check on them

But the latter happens too in many places and styles.

If you got it from him personally, or someone relatively closely tied to him,

'nuff said there

 

[geezer]

I assume this will be his next question so I'll ask it

From him directly, or at least a school he frequents in order to keep standards, or one just using his name?

Hey, why even bring this up. Hanzou obviously loves BJJ. I can't imagine him training at a second rate school. Besides, how is that even relevant?

My only beef with Hanzou is his attitude. He sometimes comes accross as more critical than helpful. A helpful response to the OP would be to say something like, "Yeah, those techniques don't look reliable. Instead, I'd recommend working on proven stuff like shrimping, bridging, Upa, etc." Notice that he eventually did offer these suggestions.

I have plenty of friends who come across the same way. But they are honest. (Not always correct, but honest) And that counts for a lot.

 

[Xue Sheng101]

Hey, why even bring this up. Hanzou obviously loves BJJ. I can't imagine him training at a second rate school. Besides, how is that even relevant?

My only beef with Hanzou is his attitude. He sometimes comes accross as more critical than helpful. A helpful response to the OP would be to say something like, "Yeah, those techniques don't look reliable. Instead, I'd recommend working on proven stuff like shrimping, bridging, Upa, etc." Notice that he eventually did offer these suggestions.

I have plenty of friends who come across the same way. But they are honest. (Not always correct, but honest) And that counts for a lot.

He posted twice, in this thread, he was a purple belt in BJJ, I was wondering who it was from... that is all

 

[Kung Fu Wang107]

Here is some fun ideas.

More distance. Fight from further back so shots become more desperate.

Shorter combinations so you don't get tied up or clinched up. Strike then turn off.

Don't lead with kicks or they get grabbed.

Don't guillotine choke,downward elbow,knee in response to takedowns. Instead cross face over hook sprawl. Or stuff the head into the ground.

Don't back up against the cage because you cant sprawl.

Punch at the throat or chest. Still hurts and you cant change level through shots as easily.

And a fun new one. Don't go front leg to front leg because a grappler can make the shot a ton mote easily.

I would like to add, how to deal with

- head lock,
- double over hooks,
- double under hook,
- double arm wrap,
- bear hug,
- waist wrap,
- arms jam,
- arm drag,
- separate hands,
- ...

Most "anti-grappling" guys like to talk about "how to prevent a clinch" but not much on "how to get out of a clinch", or "how to counter in a clinch?"?

How do you get out of, or take advantage on (apply counter) the following situation?

 

[Flying Crane]

Hey, why even bring this up. Hanzou obviously loves BJJ. I can't imagine him training at a second rate school. Besides, how is that even relevant?

My only beef with Hanzou is his attitude. He sometimes comes accross as more critical than helpful. A helpful response to the OP would be to say something like, "Yeah, those techniques don't look reliable. Instead, I'd recommend working on proven stuff like shrimping, bridging, Upa, etc." Notice that he eventually did offer these suggestions.

I have plenty of friends who come across the same way. But they are honest. (Not always correct, but honest) And that counts for a lot.

Maybe he can post some video of himself doing that stuff? That's the kind of thing he asked for from others. So maybe he can make a video and show us himself...

 

[Flying Crane]

Shrimping, Bridging, and the Upa escape. Simple and effective.

Make a video and show us what you mean.

 

[Steve]

Make a video and show us what you mean.

FC, if you're being serious and not just busting Hanzou's chops (which I fear is the case), there are a ton of excellent videos on the subject. I can't access youtube right now, but I'm 100% confident that if you wanted to see some videos showing upa, shrimping and other techniques like this both in training and outside of training, you could find them very easily.

 

[Steve]

Speaking of videos, can anyone share some examples of what WC anti-grappling should look like? I think we can all agree that the video in teh OP was not representative.

I really can't say enough how awesome it was to see the sparring video between Marcelo Garcia and the Chen Tai Chi guy (don't know his name). That was terrific. Are there any examples of WC being used effectively to counter grappling that is better than what was posted in the OP?

 

[Flying Crane]

FC, if you're being serious and not just busting Hanzou's chops (which I fear is the case), there are a ton of excellent videos on the subject. I can't access youtube right now, but I'm 100% confident that if you wanted to see some videos showing upa, shrimping and other techniques like this both in training and outside of training, you could find them very easily.

Id like to see Hanzou make a video and show us himself. He asks others to do that, it's fair to ask the same of him.

Is that busting his chops, or just asking the same of him that he asks of others?

 

[Buka22]

Maybe I'm incorrect in this - but I only remember Hanzou asking for vid proof from Youtube concerning a technique or an example or whatever, and not asking anyone to actually vid themselves. As I remember (which is always an iffy thing in my head) those requests usually came from threads where other vids were shown or referenced to illustrate a point.

Also - I'm not trying to speak for the man, apologies if taken that way.

 

[Steve]

Id like to see Hanzou make a video and show us himself. He asks others to do that, it's fair to ask the same of him.

Is that busting his chops, or just asking the same of him that he asks of others?

I think it's busting his chops. I think he, like I, would simply like to see some WC anti-grappling done well. I'd welcome it, and I'm sure Hanzou would, too. The difference between him and me is that I am sure it exists. I would guess that he's quite a bit more skeptical.

 

[geezer]

Speaking of videos, can anyone share some examples of what WC anti-grappling should look like?

Good question. I don't know of any. I remember Izzo put one up -- how to counter takedowns or something. Also "China Boxer" had some stuff out there, and both he and Izzo were wrestlers. Now I'm a WC guy, but I generally look to grapplers for my info on grappling.

...er ...does that make me a bad WC guy???

 

[Danny T]

Speaking of videos, can anyone share some examples of what WC anti-grappling should look like? I think we can all agree that the video in teh OP was not representative

Are there any examples of WC being used effectively to counter grappling that is better than what was posted in the OP?

Steve,
I can't say.
1. I don't spend much time checking out videos other than fight videos of my fighters opponents.
2. I don't do videos
3. The good WC instructors I know don't do videos.

I will say this, the people which I am associated with do a lot of ground work. In the wing chun association I am affiliated with a high level of skill in a grappling system is a requirement for becoming a full instructor. (Wrestling, Submission Wrestling, Sambo, Catch, BJJ, etc.)
One must not only be skilled (you will have to perform from a standing position and from the ground) you will have to show your proficiency vs a ground person. Not someone playing the part but vs a wrestler or a BJJ player. Many within our wc association are purple or brown and a few are BB's in BJJ or coach level in CSW. So there are wc people out there than know how to grapple. As to Anti-Grappling we don't use that term or express anything as anti-grappling.

 

[Flying Crane]

I think it's busting his chops. I think he, like I, would simply like to see some WC anti-grappling done well. I'd welcome it, and I'm sure Hanzou would, too. The difference between him and me is that I am sure it exists. I would guess that he's quite a bit more skeptical.

He asked an earlier poster to see his videos. I asked the same of Hanzou. Why is this a problem?

 

[Steve]

He asked an earlier poster to see his videos. I asked the same of Hanzou. Why is this a problem?

I must have missed this post you're referring to. If you could point out the post where he is insisting on a video of a particular poster, I'd appreciate it. If he did that, I'd say he's busting that poster's chops, too, and in my opinion, should also let it go. If he's asked for video demonstrating a technique, I don't see a problem with it. As I said before, that's a video I'd like to see, too.

 

[Flying Crane]

I must have missed this post you're referring to. If you could point out the post where he is insisting on a video of a particular poster, I'd appreciate it. If he did that, I'd say he's busting that poster's chops, too, and in my opinion, should also let it go. If he's asked for video demonstrating a technique, I don't see a problem with it. As I said before, that's a video I'd like to see, too.

Post number 45 in this thread. I've seen it elsewhere too.

Then he suggested some solutions of his own, I'd like to see him do them.

 

[drop bear107]

I would like to add, how to deal with

- head lock,
- double over hooks,
- double under hook,
- double arm wrap,
- bear hug,
- waist wrap,
- arms jam,
- arm drag,
- separate hands,
- ...

Most "anti-grappling" guys like to talk about "how to prevent a clinch" but not much on "how to get out of a clinch", or "how to counter in a clinch?"?

How do you get out of, or take advantage on (apply counter) the following situation?

Best way too escape double underhooks is don't get in double underhooks.

Elbows in tyrannosaurus arms. A stance more like a amateur boxer that brings the elbows forwards.

The big issue with flared elbows is not the double under. But, it is a combination of double under and guillotine. Head goes under the arm pit. And it can break your neck.

If you are in double unders against my advice. Forearm in throat wizzer and re feed the arm. So you wind up in a normal clinch.