I hate spoiled kids with spoiled parents.

[Andy Moynihan]

So a friend and I were sat down in a restaurant and there's a table behind us crawling with parents and kids.

Now, it's no secret to anyone who knows me that I am *not* the world's biggest fan of children, but whatever. I didn't care and could ignore the noise as long as nobody bothered me.

So of course i feel the poking in my back of some goddamn little rugrat not two minutes after I sit down.

I ignore it the once.

I turn and give him a dirty look the second.

Apparently looking back on it the mother must not have known this because it happens a third.

I don't yell, I don't swear, I may have had an annoyed tint to my voice because that's only to be expected at this point, and all's I do is turn around and say "Stop poking me".

My friend and I overhear her talking to the kid and she's saying "Oh, how ruuude...he obviously doesn't have a family..."and whatever.

Then, she gets out of her chair, leans over to me and goes "The next time you talk like *that* to my child, we're gonna have issues".

So I think about it, and decide, we're about to get our dinner, she's obviously about to leave, and it rather seems to me at this point that she has enough "issues" as it is, so I bite down on the dressing-down I *wanted* to give her, do a cost-to-benefit ratio in my head, and decide to just let her think she's won, or saved her face, or done her mother-protecting-her-cubs thing, or whatever.

So she finishes up by putting his coat on himand she's all babying him "yeah, meeean, he's meeean"( If *I* am what she is gonna teach this kid is "mean" I shudder to think what will happen when they meet a REAL "mean" person)

I'm not by nature a confrontational person.

I didn't go there wanting to have a fight, or do anything at all but have my dinner.

Most certainly I didn't go out to have someone's little **** crawl all over me.

I found it curious, you see, that all of a sudden the kid's bad behavior became *my* fault.

Now if I thought this message would reach any bad parents, I might say it somewhere else than on my blog or a forum.

But it won't. Because the people I'm referring to, think I'm referring to somebody else.

So for my own therapeutic purposes--Hey all you spoiled parents--if you have not yet properly taught your kids how to behave in public--STOP ****ING BRINGING THEM OUT IN PUBLIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*relieved sigh of annoyance being let go*

You know what the two saddest things about this are?

One, that she probably learned nothing from this.

Two, that while I was pissed for a few minutes and by the time I was
home i'd forgotten about most of it, she's still probably in her car or at home, and she's probably on the phone to her mom or girlfriends or whoever, all fuming that someone dared "Talk like *that* to her child". The horror, the horror.

Well, I wish 'em the best--they're gonna need it.

Ladies and Gentlemen--The Future of America.

 

[terryl965]

Manners have become a sidenote to most. I have three young men in my house and they would not even think about being like that and if they did accidentally hit you they would have turn around and said I'm sorry nut then again I am a parent with manners.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Manners have become a sidenote to most. I have three young men in my house and they would not even think about being like that and if they did accidentally hit you they would have turn around and said I'm sorry nut then again I am a parent with manners.

I know, and the mother *saw* it the third time.

For what it's worth, from having met your boys I must say they are the best behaved kids I have seen in a very long time. Good Job to both you and Yolanda.

 

[Sukerkin]

Andy, as ever with my American friends, the hour is too late for me to be able to write much on this but I just wanted to affirm, as you already know, that your actions were restrained.

I would've been more vocal in such a circumstance because I tend to hold back irritation behind a dam ... which sadly then bursts much worse than if I'd said/done something in the first place.

The only thing I would've perhaps done differently was address the parents rather than the child. You never know, a loudly vocalised criticism of behaviour might have embarassed them into doing something about it. Unlikely I know but people get struck by lightning every day .

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Andy, as ever with my American friends, the hour is too late for me to be able to write much on this but I just wanted to affirm, as you already know, that your actions were restrained.

I would've been more vocal in such a circumstance because I tend to hold back irritation behind a dam ... which sadly then bursts much worse than if I'd said/done something in the first place.

I can afford to carry, or I can afford a temper, I cannot afford both.

The only thing I would've perhaps done differently was address the parents rather than the child. .

You would think being a soldier I would've thought to talk to the kid's "Chain of command" first.....ah well. Future reference.

 

[terryl965]

I know, and the mother *saw* it the third time.

For what it's worth, from having met your boys I must say they are the best behaved kids I have seen in a very long time. Good Job to both you and Yolanda.

Thank you Andy appreciate that amd all I can say is we try our best.

 

[Bigshadow]

First of all, I would say you handled the resulting situation quite well and your observations about her reaction is spot on.

However, on the flip side, I would also say her observations about you based on how you reacted was spot on.

I have always found from my observations, that adults who have children often times react differently to the situation you described than those that do not have children and are not interested in children.

That being said, she did over-react and babied the child and certainly gave the child a misrepresentation of a "mean" person. I am sure your response was not nearly as warm and understanding as an adult that has children would have been. She picked up on it and blew it out of proportion.

I am not saying that the adult with child experience would have wanted no less than you, just it would be likely that their response would have been a little warmer, and would have gotten the point across just as well.

Yes, the child's parent needs to teach them how to act in public, but this cannot be addressed without going into public. So your wish that it is taken care of before going into public, just isn't going to happen. However, the mother should have been OBSERVANT and saw what the child did by the second time and corrected the child.

Anyway, I can see your point and I agree with you in essence but at the same time, I can see where she probably picked up on a few things as well that happened to increase the tension of the situation.

 

[Kacey]

It's not just the lack of manners that annoys me - it's the sense of entitlement. I have to say that most of the kids I know are well-behaved - between 90% and 95% of them aren't a problem more than occasionally, and then it's usually in times of excitement, when the rules they were taught slip. That doesn't bother me. It is the ones like the one you describe, who are not only not taught manners, but are taught that those who object to their lack of manners are wrong - those are the ones that are the problem.

Having met Terry's kids, I would agree - they are very well-mannered, as are the children of most martial artists I know; Master Arnold's children (a 9 year-old boy and a 5 year-old girl) were at the tournament yesterday, and were wonderful to have around, as were the competitors (ages 6-adult) - even the uninvolved siblings and children of competitors were, as a general rule, not a problem until very late in the day as things were winding up and getting uninteresting, and even then, they stayed out of the way of the events still continuing, and helped with the cleanup as a way of amusing themselves.

Some of my school students, however, have been taught that anything they do wrong is an error in interpretation on the part of the person who disliked their actions (as with the sorry excuse of a mother in Andy's story) - and they are a significant problem.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

You know, Bigshadow, that's probably exactly it.

I ran through it a few times in my head and wondered if I had turned around, said, "Excuse me, Ma'am, is this your son? *answers* "Ok, then I would appreciate it if you would please see that he stops poking me. Thank you".

Well, I'll file that under experience from a mistake, and keep it for future reference.

Still, disciplinarian that I am, I may have been working on the theory that giving a kid a reaction that makes them NOT want to repeat an action will make them not repeat it--but then, I need to remember how *I* would react were a stranger to act that way in my presence to my kids*shrug*

 

[Rich Parsons]

So a friend and I were sat down in a restaurant and there's a table behind us crawling with parents and kids.

Now, it's no secret to anyone who knows me that I am *not* the world's biggest fan of children, but whatever. I didn't care and could ignore the noise as long as nobody bothered me.

So of course i feel the poking in my back of some goddamn little rugrat not two minutes after I sit down.

I ignore it the once.

I turn and give him a dirty look the second.

Apparently looking back on it the mother must not have known this because it happens a third.

I don't yell, I don't swear, I may have had an annoyed tint to my voice because that's only to be expected at this point, and all's I do is turn around and say "Stop poking me".

My friend and I overhear her talking to the kid and she's saying "Oh, how ruuude...he obviously doesn't have a family..."and whatever.

Then, she gets out of her chair, leans over to me and goes "The next time you talk like *that* to my child, we're gonna have issues".

So I think about it, and decide, we're about to get our dinner, she's obviously about to leave, and it rather seems to me at this point that she has enough "issues" as it is, so I bite down on the dressing-down I *wanted* to give her, do a cost-to-benefit ratio in my head, and decide to just let her think she's won, or saved her face, or done her mother-protecting-her-cubs thing, or whatever.

So she finishes up by putting his coat on himand she's all babying him "yeah, meeean, he's meeean"( If *I* am what she is gonna teach this kid is "mean" I shudder to think what will happen when they meet a REAL "mean" person)

I'm not by nature a confrontational person.

I didn't go there wanting to have a fight, or do anything at all but have my dinner.

Most certainly I didn't go out to have someone's little **** crawl all over me.

I found it curious, you see, that all of a sudden the kid's bad behavior became *my* fault.

Now if I thought this message would reach any bad parents, I might say it somewhere else than on my blog or a forum.

But it won't. Because the people I'm referring to, think I'm referring to somebody else.

So for my own therapeutic purposes--Hey all you spoiled parents--if you have not yet properly taught your kids how to behave in public--STOP ****ING BRINGING THEM OUT IN PUBLIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*relieved sigh of annoyance being let go*

You know what the two saddest things about this are?

One, that she probably learned nothing from this.

Two, that while I was pissed for a few minutes and by the time I was
home i'd forgotten about most of it, she's still probably in her car or at home, and she's probably on the phone to her mom or girlfriends or whoever, all fuming that someone dared "Talk like *that* to her child". The horror, the horror.

Well, I wish 'em the best--they're gonna need it.

Ladies and Gentlemen--The Future of America.

Andy,


After her comment, I would have started speaking to the air, About how it was assault by her child upon me and that the egg shell law means that any impact to the head could be a life threatening, and that is she truly wants to see rude she will in about a second if she does not shut the **** up and as I will stand up and touch her in the head and let her know how annoying it is to have unwanted touching.

You would think that a woman would understand that touch and in particular an unwanted touch is something that is not a good thing.

I have had to ask the air before what is the difference between someone touching me after I told them to stop and me touching them? Nothing, as it would be mutual assault. It would all depend upon how good a lawyer they had and how long they were in the hospital. Oh BTW I mention I have real good insurance that covers me well.

Most of the time they leave or get real quiet. I usually am so loud that the management wants to talk to me and I continue the conversation loud enough so everyone in the place is a witness. If they want to draw attention I will give them attention.

But, for me most of the time, kids either love me and smile and move on or they are afraid of me, and begin to cry. Either case, most people do not want me around their kids because they see this large man with no wedding ring and waving at a child with a smile on my face. This for some reason when I am actually trying to be nice and understanding, seems to bother the parents as well. They usually leave or get real quiet. Some smile and make their kids wave back or what have you.

In the end you did what you thought was right. That is good. A conflict avoided is usually the best policy. Sometimes I do the wrong thing, and try to educate people, that calling others rude and or trying to make a scene, is not going to bother me. And that I can be a bigger jerk than they can be.

 

[Drac]

Unlike Andy I will open my mouth in public, I will restrain myself just so long...Was at a resturnat with my Mom and this little monster was weaving between the table at top speed..He kept bumping my Moms chair, finall I had enough and I stood up and pointed at the brat and lowered my voice to a growl and said "Please stop bumping my Mothers chair"...The kid ran straight into his Mothers arm and she attempted to stare me down, lotsa luck there...They paid their bill and left immediately, the manager thanked me...

 

[Ninjamom]

My latest mother-defending-the-cubs blow-up (about two months ago) was over even less of an issue, but regarding the same general principle.

Someone complained directly to my son about his behavior in a public place. The person who was correcting my son saw me standing right there at the time, meaning either 1) I didn't see that my son doing something wrong, or 2) I saw it but had no problem with his actions.

I took the person aside to address how he handled the issue, and that with me right there, he should have addressed me and let me deal with my son. Personally, if I *had not* been present, and some other adult had seen my son misbehaving, I would have been grateful for someone standing up to tell him (calmly) to cut out whatever, and bring me word afterwards. However, in this case, the person went straight to addressing why my 10-yr-old autistic son (who plays with his hair so much he has worn a bald spot into his scalp) should not be wearing a cap inside. Grrr!

Correcting other people's children is an emotional landmine looking for a place to blow up. There is almost no *right* way to do it, that will guarantee no one will ever take offense. Too many people see their children's behavior as a direct reflection on themselves, so you are actually criticising them, rather than being viewed as helping the child. In general, I would suggest getting the parents involved whenever possible. Then, if you see the same response, at least you will know where the kid got the behavior issues.

 

[arnisador]

You made the right decision. You couldn't have won the argument. Speaking with the management is the only way to have a chance at winning...and they foten will try not to get involved too.

I too have been the subject of the "He's so mean" comments.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I could write a book.
- The mother at the post office whose rugbrat was running around using everything and everyone as a crash pad. Her reaction "Tommy stop that". As effective as a UN peace keeper.
- The couple who wandered off at Target and let the game unit be the baby sitter of their kids. Kids were walking back into the store as the parents checked out. Very safe parenting eh.
- The brat who kept kicking my seat on the bus, whose mother kept "talking" to him and threatening a "time out". I got quite the glare for turning and saying "As long as he's going to keep doing that and ignoring your agressive parenting, can you at least get him to alter the pace? He's cheaper than my massuse.".

I won't even go into all the crap I saw and dealt with while working in a photo studio. $10k camera, aint little **** for brains cute swinging that prop around. Not.

 

[Drac]

However, in this case, the person went straight to addressing why my 10-yr-old autistic son (who plays with his hair so much he has worn a bald spot into his scalp) should not be wearing a cap inside. Grrr!

Why would someone care WHAT a chid is wearing in public...

Correcting other people's children is an emotional landmine looking for a place to blow up.

Just call me the mine sweeper....

 

[14 Kempo]

In my humble opinion, the parent, if present, should be the one that is approached. Afterall, it is a child, at a young age, it is the parents that are at fault for neglecting to show thier child right from wrong. The child is not born with the knowledge of how to act in public. And, as mentioned, there may be issues unknown to a passing adult, such as the autism.

 

[shesulsa]

On the other hand ...

When my oldest was a child, the outside-the-home experience for him was an excruciating one - bombarded with sights and sounds and vibrations and all sorts of things that overloaded his sensory circuit board. I dragged him screaming through the store consoling him, reassuring him, trying to refocus his attention to map the synapses he was missing. I refused to leave him at home with sitter or dad - that got him nowhere.

You wouldn't believe the comments I received ... or, perhaps you would.

For me, teaching my autistic child that he can adapt to his surroundings and mapping those synapses was FAR more important than the glares, verbal admonishments, unwanted advice.

I got some business cards from the Autism Society of America which on one side gave an 800 number and website for the local chapter of the ASA and on the other side an explanation that I was teaching my child to behave in public, blah blah blah. Most of the time I received apologies, others darn near physical attacks - normal kids just shouldn't have to look upon such tragedy in their young years. Poor widdle thangs.

My youngest borders on precociousness and dared to race Hot Wheels across the waiting room floor at the doctor's office. One run was enough for me and, as I rose to intercept my son and cars meeting, to have a woman suggest I ask for Ritalin while we were there ... before I even had the chance to speak to my son about the behavior. This was, I dare say, uncalled for. I *almost* suggested she ask for some Prozac to manage her intolerance for normalcy. My child is, after all, a child.

I've also been with multiple children and multiple adults and sometimes those situations aren't well-coordinated and children unruly - it can be quite the task to divide one's attention between six kids, six adults, a menu, the waitress and all the water glasses, cutlery and table-top signs and condiments and still maintain order and good behavior.

I won't, however, pretend there aren't parents who just don't care ... and unless someone is completely out of line with my children I won't show an unappreciative face towards the stranger. It is how we teach our children to behave - they push boundaries, we reinforce them. They poke a stranger in the back, we admonish them and make the child apologize to the stranger.

Sorry your dinner was ruined, Andy. Sorry some parents are afraid to be parents.

:asian:

 

[jks9199]

Unlike Andy I will open my mouth in public, I will restrain myself just so long...Was at a resturnat with my Mom and this little monster was weaving between the table at top speed..He kept bumping my Moms chair, finall I had enough and I stood up and pointed at the brat and lowered my voice to a growl and said "Please stop bumping my Mothers chair"...The kid ran straight into his Mothers arm and she attempted to stare me down, lotsa luck there...They paid their bill and left immediately, the manager thanked me...

Y'know... it bothers me that the management didn't take action earlier.

If a kid is causing a disruption, and the parents lack the common courtesy to either make the kid behave or take them outside -- then it's time for the management to explain the courtesy to them. I guaran-damn-tee that if the kid in question had been a 16 year old or college kid, the management wouldn't have hesitated to tell them to leave. Why should a 5 or 10 year old be different?

I've got a 2 year old niece -- and her parents have neglected to teach her to sit still during a meal. Or at least they haven't made it stick... Now, I think she's the neatest & cutest thing since sliced bread (especially since I've got none of my own yet), but I don't tolerate that. A couple of times now I've been at dinner with them, and she's been climbing around and playing... Funny, I tell her to stop, and she does. Must be something different in how I say than how Daddy says it.:shrug: But at least they do keep her on the inside, between them.

It's the same thing with kids at church or movies... First, it's the parents's job to know whether or not their kid can behave through the movie or service (or whatever). Now -- I'm reasonable; I go to a kiddie movie, I expect kids. But going to a movie or out to dinner after 10 PM? Let's be real. But if you're gonna bring the kids, and they start acting up -- it's time to go. Your kids don't trump my right to enjoy the movie or dinner or whatever, no matter how cute they are.

 

[Kacey]

I was in a grocery store one day; I came around a corner and was hit by a soft ball (still in the wrapper - apparently still the store's property) thrown by a girl who appeared to be about 6, to a boy who looked about 3. There were no adults in sight anywhere in the aisle. The boy threw the ball back in the general direction of his sister, and the ball hit me again. I told them to stop throwing the ball around before someone was hurt, and I asked her where her parents were; she took her little brother's hand and left. I paid for my groceries and left the store.

As I was loading my car, another car pulled up with these 2 children and their irate father (who, by his own statement, had been in the diagonally opposite corner of the store) who started yelling at me that no one would discipline his children but him, and how dare I tell his children to stop doing anything - especially something so harmless as throwing a soft ball around. He went on like that for several minutes. When he wound down, I pointed out how easy it would have been to walk off with one - or both - of his unsupervised children, and told him I'd have been within my rights to contact the store management and the police about unattended minors, and have him arrested for child neglect and endangerment - and that, in fact, as a teacher, I was a mandated reporter and should really have done so sooner. I then read his license plate number off to him and offered to call the police and report him (my trunk was up, so he couldn't see mine)... he turned purple, said something I (thankfully) couldn't understand, and drove off... Several people in the parking lot started clapping, and one thanked me; seemed she'd been hit by the ball too, and, as an elderly lady with poor balance, she'd had a lot more trouble than I had.

The moral? Some people are *******s, and they raise their kids to be just like them... so be sure there are witnesses around (who are on your side) if you do do anything!

 

[Drac]

Y'know... it bothers me that the management didn't take action earlier.

Cause most managers are coporate clones..If its not in the 'regs' they will not addresss it...

If a kid is causing a disruption, and the parents lack the common courtesy to either make the kid behave or take them outside -- then it's time for the management to explain the courtesy to them. I guaran-damn-tee that if the kid in question had been a 16 year old or college kid, the management wouldn't have hesitated to tell them to leave. Why should a 5 or 10 year old be different?

You sre correct sir

I've got a 2 year old niece -- and her parents have neglected to teach her to sit still during a meal. Or at least they haven't made it stick... Now, I think she's the neatest & cutest thing since sliced bread (especially since I've got none of my own yet), but I don't tolerate that. A couple of times now I've been at dinner with them, and she's been climbing around and playing... Funny, I tell her to stop, and she does. Must be something different in how I say than how Daddy says it.:shrug: But at least they do keep her on the inside, between them.

Is that a surprize to ya???

It's the same thing with kids at church or movies... First, it's the parents's job to know whether or not their kid can behave through the movie or service (or whatever). Now -- I'm reasonable; I go to a kiddie movie, I expect kids. But going to a movie or out to dinner after 10 PM? Let's be real. But if you're gonna bring the kids, and they start acting up -- it's time to go. Your kids don't trump my right to enjoy the movie or dinner or whatever, no matter how cute they are.

Well said...