I got pretty mad last night

[TrueJim]

I think part of the fun of eating Chinese food is learning to eat with chopsticks. Part of the fun of learning taekwondo is learning basic Korean vocabulary. Imagine if there were now bowing as you entered the dojang, no bowing to the flags at the end of class, no Hanja banners or Korean flags hanging from the walls...yah it would still be taekwondo, but you'd have taken a lot of the fun out of it.

I wouldn't get mad if my school stopped using Korean, but I'd definitely get annoyed if the reason they cited was that it was "old fashioned." That's like saying chopsticks are "old fashioned." They're not old fashioned, you're just being lazy. And if you want to be lazy, that's fine, that's your choice, but don't cover your laziness by pretending it has anything to do with modernity. At least be honest enough to admit, "We're lazy and we don't want to do that because it's hard."

I wouldn't be irritated by the lack of Korean, I'd be irritated by the lame excuse given.

 

[andyjeffries]

One thing that's interesting (and I'll have to ask them why they do this) but there are a few lower-grade black belts that will say "Cheryeot...Bow". Why not say "Attention, bow" or "cheryeot, kunye"...I don't know.

Out of interest, are you American?

I hear Americans pronounce "bow" as "kunye", but that's wrong.

It should be "kyuhng-yeh" (technically kyeong-rye, but the r is almost silent and "eo" is pronounced "uh" rather than "ee-oh" which the spelling often makes people do).

Here's an audio clip of how to pronounce it properly - ?? pronunciation: How to pronounce ?? in Korean

 

[skribs]

I am American. All of the primary instructors at my school are Korean (as in, spent more than half their lives there, were born there), including the master instructor, his wife, and the other primary instructor. He pronounces stuff correctly, obviously, but sometimes I don't quite get the exact pronunciation because he's talking in a pace and cadence that emphasizes energy over enunciation (pretty much anyone directing physical activity does this, or else there's no motivation for the class).

Part of the fun of learning taekwondo is learning basic Korean vocabulary. Imagine if there were now bowing as you entered the dojang, no bowing to the flags at the end of class, no Hanja banners or Korean flags hanging from the walls...yah it would still be taekwondo, but you'd have taken a lot of the fun out of it.

What's fun is subjective. If you took out sparring I'd be disappointed, but more than a few students in my school would find it more fun.

 

[Jaeimseu]

I personally see nothing wrong with conducting classes entirely in English or Spanish or whatever. The majority of students will never "need" to know the Korean terminology.

That said, I do wish people who decide to use Korean commands or terms would take the time to learn to at least sort of pronounce the words correctly. In the USA, too many people can't even pronounce the name of the art correctly.

Also, I dislike when Korean commands are given along with the translation ("Ready position joonbi"). Outside of a beginner class, I find this practice kind of silly. If the students can't respond to the commands after a reasonable number of classes, why bother with them at all?

 

[Dirty Dog]

I personally see nothing wrong with conducting classes entirely in English or Spanish or whatever. The majority of students will never "need" to know the Korean terminology.

That said, I do wish people who decide to use Korean commands or terms would take the time to learn to at least sort of pronounce the words correctly. In the USA, too many people can't even pronounce the name of the art correctly.

Also, I dislike when Korean commands are given along with the translation ("Ready position joonbi"). Outside of a beginner class, I find this practice kind of silly. If the students can't respond to the commands after a reasonable number of classes, why bother with them at all?

Have to agree with this. We do give parallel commands in the beginner class, sometimes. But even then, new students can hear the term and figure out what it means by a "monkey see monkey do" system. That's how they learned English, after all. Other than the beginner class, we use one language at a time.

 

[donald1]

In my karate class i prefer to say the commands whether it's starting class, calling out the techniques, or ending class. I think it's important if you ever go to a different place that uses the traditional language. There are situations where it may not be important but to me it is.

 

[andyjeffries]

I personally see nothing wrong with conducting classes entirely in English or Spanish or whatever. The majority of students will never "need" to know the Korean terminology.

I 100% agree.

That said, I do wish people who decide to use Korean commands or terms would take the time to learn to at least sort of pronounce the words correctly. In the USA, too many people can't even pronounce the name of the art correctly.

Amen brother!! You've hit on my pet peeve. Far too many people in the UK (including seniors in our official WTF MNA) pronounce it as "Thai-kwondo". Aaaarrrrggghhhhh!!! Bugs the HELL out of me!

If people mispronounce other word it bugs me, but I can live with it. The name of our art though, that they have dedicated decades to... C'mon, take the effort to learn how to say it correctly.

 

[andyjeffries]

From http://www.talktomeinkorean.com/shows/how-to-pronounce-1/

 

[Jaeimseu]

I 100% agree.



Amen brother!! You've hit on my pet peeve. Far too many people in the UK (including seniors in our official WTF MNA) pronounce it as "Thai-kwondo". Aaaarrrrggghhhhh!!! Bugs the HELL out of me!

If people mispronounce other word it bugs me, but I can live with it. The name of our art though, that they have dedicated decades to... C'mon, take the effort to learn how to say it correctly.

Yeah, in general, westerners' pronunciation of Korean is pretty terrible, but you'd hope people could get closer than "tie".

 

[skribs]

In my karate class i prefer to say the commands whether it's starting class, calling out the techniques, or ending class. I think it's important if you ever go to a different place that uses the traditional language. There are situations where it may not be important but to me it is.​

What if you go to a Karate class that uses the local language?

I also think its unfair to assume I shouldn't have an accent when using another language.

 

[andyjeffries]

I also think its unfair to assume I shouldn't have an accent when using another language.

I'm sure my British accent comes through when I pronounce a lot of Korean, but (uncharacteristically for my countrymen) I make my best effort to improve. One of the things I think it's most important to pronounce correctly is the name of the art.

This isn't talking about using another language, this is talking about pronounce the proper noun of a global martial art and sport.

 

[Manny]

Another aspect is that with most schools using Korean terms, you can follow along much easier if you were to visit a foreign school. For instance, I liked the drills in this video from France. Manny, you would probably catch some things based on French and Spanish being latin languages, but then you also understand a bit more with the Korean. For instance, at 3:55 when he has his leg up, points to his eyes and says "up chagi" you know he means that your opponent sees a front kick coming.

The names of the kicks I heard was Ti-Chagui, Mom Dolyo Chagui, Ap Chagui.

Manny

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

The names of the kicks I heard was Ti-Chagui, Mom Dolyo Chagui, Ap Chagui.

Manny

Ahhh.....I heard mon dolyo, with mon being the French word for my. Thanks Manny.

 

[WaterGal]

Amen brother!! You've hit on my pet peeve. Far too many people in the UK (including seniors in our official WTF MNA) pronounce it as "Thai-kwondo". Aaaarrrrggghhhhh!!! Bugs the HELL out of me!

If people mispronounce other word it bugs me, but I can live with it. The name of our art though, that they have dedicated decades to... C'mon, take the effort to learn how to say it correctly.

I think, honestly, we're at the point where that's just the English pronunciation of the word. It's just like how English speakers pronounce karate "kuh rah tee". It's not really right, but it's not worth getting annoyed about either. (Personally, I blame whoever decided that "ㅐ" should be transliterated as "ae".)

 

[Earl Weiss]

If you are going to learn a style learn all of it.

I did capo and had to learn songs. The culture is part of the martial arts.

Some may consider the language part of the style. Some may not.

When I had Nam Tae Hi guest instruct he still used some japanese names for certain techniques.

After publishing his first text in Korean General Choi published texts in English. (Later also Spanish and Russian and perhaps other languages as well.) Except for basic commands like Attention, Ready, bow and return, when he taught in the USA and most countries outside Korea he taught in English using English names for the techniques.

The goal was to spread TKD worldwide. The fastest way to do this was to use the local language. Many early instructors had to use Korean names since they had insufficient grasp of the native language to convert the names of techniques and some terms dont readily convert

 

[oftheherd1]

I think, honestly, we're at the point where that's just the English pronunciation of the word. It's just like how English speakers pronounce karate "kuh rah tee". It's not really right, but it's not worth getting annoyed about either. (Personally, I blame whoever decided that "ㅐ" should be transliterated as "ae".)

I seem to remember reading back in the 70s that there were something like 12 different systems for transliterating Korean into English. Most never gained popularity.

Of course, when most American English speakers see something like 'ae,' they are likely going to pronounce both letters distinctly, not as the Koreans would.

 

[tshadowchaser]

I think some of the native language should be used at least for most commands and techniques in the school. This keeps some connection to the country of origin. It also allows someone from your school to visit a different school or system from the same country and have some idea what is going on.
That being said I teach in English because I was taught that way and I let the instructors under my guidance use a different language if they wish, seeing as they deal with others in the Filipino community more that i do.
We do have nights where we will use French, Spanish, German, Chinese, Japanese, etc. to count or call to attention etc. this gives the student a chance to learn some basics of another language and broadens their knowledge base . we do these commands at the appropriate time so they know what we want.

( I know this is a TKD thread but I felt what I do may apply to the thread)

 

[skribs]

I think the important thing for me is the techniques, not the language. I don't think it's wrong to use the origin language or the native language. I do think it's wrong to say the origin language is outdated or to say it's not real unless you use the origin language.

 

[Gnarlie]

I think the language is a great link to Korean cultural ideas outside of Taekwondo.

There are links between the core philosophical principles of Hangul and those of Taekwondo.

I think it's a shame if practitioners of Taekwondo are denied the opportunity to investigate that link by not being exposed to Korean and Hangul.

I think using Korean highlights that Taekwondo values are also part of wider Korean culture. Understanding wider Korean culture can help us to understand where Taekwondo came from, why it is the way it is, and what its future might look like.

 

[Dirty Dog]

There are links between the core philosophical principles of Hangul and those of Taekwondo.

OK... you've lost me. How does an alphabet have a philosophy?