Global Image of Islam ...

[Josh Oakley]

From the Qu'ran:

2:191 And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.


4:91 Ye will find others who desire that they should have security from you, and security from their own folk. So often as they are returned to hostility they are plunged therein. If they keep not aloof from you nor offer you peace nor hold their hands, then take them and kill them wherever ye find them. Against such We have given you clear warrant.

5:33 The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom;

8:15 O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them.

8:16 Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless manoeuvring for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end.

8:17 Ye (Muslims) slew them not, but Allah slew them. And thou (Muhammad) threwest not when thou didst throw, but Allah threw, that He might test the believers by a fair test from Him. Lo! Allah is Hearer, Knower.

9:111 Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs: they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. Who fulfilleth His covenant better than Allah ? Rejoice then in your bargain that ye have made, for that is the supreme triumph

There are many more similar verses. I would be up all night if I posted every instance of violence, anti-Christianity, anti-semitism, etc. So my question to anyone who thinks islam is an inherently peaceful religion, or that it's being taken out of context... have you read it?


I'm not saying this isn't equally true of Jewish religion or Christianity. The Tanakh has some truely revolting passages of despicable acts, and Christianity has 2000 years of similar garbage. Even so, Islam, being cut from the same cloth, displayed many of the same vices.

 

[Jenna]

There are many more similar verses. I would be up all night if I posted every instance of violence, anti-Christianity, anti-semitism, etc. So my question to anyone who thinks islam is an inherently peaceful religion, or that it's being taken out of context... have you read it?

Yes.

To cherrypick through verses -as you rightly say- without reference to the historical context will obviously yield the above kind of convenient "soundbite" that fuels and supports the horrifying actions of fanatics from the OP and many other atrocities committed supposedly in the name of religion throughout history.

However, this conclusively proves that 1. humanity has a lust for violence -as if that were ever in doubt, and 2. that certain predisposed individuals do not approach their holy text with a prayerful and peaceful mindset of receiving. None of the above isolated quotation a sufficient condition to prove that religion is at fault. The position that "religion is to blame" is a position itself based on dogma. The fault lies entirely within the (often wilful) misinterpretation of holy texts for the interpreter's own nefarious ends. While holy texts recounting the violence of history, and the violent acts of the misinterpreters - though intersecting and though opponents naturally will relate them - are nonetheless two distinct aspects.

Qur'an is a book of peace. Those that choose to interpret it otherwise and commit violent or criminal acts are BADLY at fault.

 

[Twin Fist]

i dont know if he was, and it is irellevant

it is child molestation, from a guy that went on to found a religion through force, that preaches converstion through force

it doesnt matter if achmed the camel vender did it to, since no one is killing anyone for drawing pictures of achmed

are they?

NO, they are not


FOR ****S SAKE, CANT YOU PEOPLE STAY ON SUBJECT?????? WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT CHRISTIANITY HERE AND BRINGING IT INTO THE DISCUSSION IS A DELIBERATE ATTEMPT TO MUDDY THE WATER AND DISTRACT FROM THE SUBJECT AND IT IS BLATANT MORAL RELATIVISM

and when people today molest kids THEY ARE SENT TO ****ING JAIL, not held up as a prophet

where is warren jeffs? JAIL

what happened to Koresh? SHOT IN THE HEAD

seriously, are you THAT desperate to defend islam that you will engage in outright dishonesty to accomplish it?

GAWD

friggin obtuse people make my head hurt

And you think that he is/was the only one over 1600 years ago conducting himself in this manner?
hell, it is rumored that Charlemagne had relations with his own daughters...the sword of Christianity himself....

And there are plenty of 'good church going people' these days, when we certainly know better who do the same thing.

 

[Twin Fist]

Qur'an is a book of peace. Those that choose to interpret it otherwise and commit violent or criminal acts are BADLY at fault.

if you believe this you either

1) havnt read it

or

2) are high as a kite

islam is an inherently violent religion based on an inherently violent book written by a man that preached violence and forced converstion and molested a little girl

THAT is the 100% truth, and none of it can be proven false.

 

[Jenna]

if you believe this you either

1) havnt read it

or

2) are a fool

islam is an inherently violent religion based on an inherently violent book written by a man that preached violence and forced converstion and molested a little girl

THAT is the 100% truth, and none of it can be proven false.

ok

 

[Tez3]

Minds are made up, 'the only good Moslem is a dead one', no point in discussion, thoughtful research or even having a read of other's religious books.
Little point in continuing with this really as all we are going to get is accusations of being high or stupid just because some of us want to explore a subject. It's not defending something to want to know more, it's not condoning child abuse by asking questions. Many don't believe there was a Mohammed, others believe that a lot of the Koran is mistranslated which could be feasable, I know that the Bible has much in it and left out because of the countless translations often with political overtones.
Many Muslims live good lives, aren't violent or terrorists, why's that if they are devout Muslims? Many Buddhists are violent despite it being a religion of 'peace, why's that?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Tez, don't try and contrast things, it's "muddying the waters". Pointing out the fact that Judaism had -laws- that ordered the execution of non-virgins, children, and gays, encouraged child sex, and incest and that Christianity adopted most of those same rules is besides the fact. What we want here is not historical contrast, an understanding of the time Islam was created (where child brides were as common in the Christian world as any other culture), but more reasons to condemn what we fear and hate. As always. We must judge them not on how things were 1400 years ago, but by todays much different standards. We can't let little things such as the fact that the age of consent in Japan is 13, 14 in several US states, and 12 for US travelers today distract us from the religions founders lawful marriage to what we call a child-bride these days distract us from our desire to find fault. Islam is obviously evil, and to prove that we must cherry pick some bits, while ignoring any contradictory bits, again. The fact that in this specific case Aishah may have been 13 when wed (due to possible mistakes in determining her age) is irrelevant. She has to be 6 in order to fuel our rage, because if she was 13 as some suggest, she would be the same age as tens of thousands of other girls when married, and this would dull our message of hatred. No, we must focus on our mission, to spread the message that Islam is Evil, damn the torpedoes, facts and historical contrast.

 

[oaktree]

Hi tez nothing in the Buddha teaching says to be violent That I have read. In fact many rules are against it Like the 5 commandments and 5 hellish sins. But why do some Buddhist act violent? To put it simply because they are not followingBuddha dharma and if you don't follow dharma You are not Buddhist

 

[granfire]

Tez, don't try and contrast things, it's "muddying the waters". Pointing out the fact that Judaism had -laws- that ordered the execution of non-virgins, children, and gays, encouraged child sex, and incest and that Christianity adopted most of those same rules is besides the fact. What we want here is not historical contrast, an understanding of the time Islam was created (where child brides were as common in the Christian world as any other culture), but more reasons to condemn what we fear and hate. As always. We must judge them not on how things were 1400 years ago, but by todays much different standards. We can't let little things such as the fact that the age of consent in Japan is 13, 14 in several US states, and 12 for US travelers today distract us from the religions founders lawful marriage to what we call a child-bride these days distract us from our desire to find fault. Islam is obviously evil, and to prove that we must cherry pick some bits, while ignoring any contradictory bits, again. The fact that in this specific case Aishah may have been 13 when wed (due to possible mistakes in determining her age) is irrelevant. She has to be 6 in order to fuel our rage, because if she was 13 as some suggest, she would be the same age as tens of thousands of other girls when married, and this would dull our message of hatred. No, we must focus on our mission, to spread the message that Islam is Evil, damn the torpedoes, facts and historical contrast.

too freakin early to get sarcasm.....

 

[Bob Hubbard]

too freakin early to get sarcasm.....

No kidding. I have to go shoot naked calendar models in 55 minutes and all I want to do is go back to bed.

 

[Sukerkin]

:splutters into his cup of tea:

OMG! It's a hard life for some, ain't it :lol:. For his working day, Bob gets naked women and I get 132kV AVC transformer configuration ... why does it strike me that the world is not fair?

 

[Jenna]

:splutters into his cup of tea:

OMG! It's a hard life for some, ain't it :lol:. For his working day, Bob gets naked women and I get 132kV AVC transformer configuration ... why does it strike me that the world is not fair?

Naked women? Oh well, there is my happy reverie spoiled for the day!

 

[Sukerkin]

Well, to be fair, Bob didn't specify gender, so you might have the rights to your reverie back, Jenna .

 

[Xue Sheng]

No kidding. I have to go shoot naked calendar models in 55 minutes and all I want to do is go back to bed.

Well.... ummm Bob.... you are talking photography right..... not firearms am I correct

 

[Josh Oakley]

So the point I was making was that there is a lot of violence, antisemitism, antichristianity, gender bias, etc. in the Qu'ran. Yes I have read the whole thing, and yes I understand the cultural context. I'm not saying "the only good muslim is a dead muslim". There are a great many good muslims. And it often means they take a more modern stance on the Qu'ran. Meaning not literal, and updated to live in a world of non-muslims. But the Qu'ran itself is not a book of peace by any means, except for peace between muslims.

 

[JohnEdward]

Really makes the Amish radical visionaries and revolutionaries, and that really is appealing.

 

[fangjian]

So the point I was making was that there is a lot of violence, antisemitism, antichristianity, gender bias, etc. in the Qu'ran. Yes I have read the whole thing, and yes I understand the cultural context. I'm not saying "the only good muslim is a dead muslim"

When Islam is criticized, people always say 'oh you want to kill all Muslim'. No! Or if Christianity is criticized, you hear 'You think Christians are stupid'. No!

We target "Islam". We target the Quran. It directly says in there: there is a supernatural god and it wants you to kill people who don't believe like you do. (amongst other ridiculous things) And waddaya know? People actually believe this and act on it.

I don't understand why I have to respect this.

 

[Tez3]

Hi tez nothing in the Buddha teaching says to be violent That I have read. In fact many rules are against it Like the 5 commandments and 5 hellish sins. But why do some Buddhist act violent? To put it simply because they are not followingBuddha dharma and if you don't follow dharma You are not Buddhist

The thing is they say and believe they are and there are Buddhist terrorists even if Buddhists and non Buddhist alike tell us these people aren't Buddhists. Look at Sri Lanka for an example as well.

What about Gandhi and his alleged peadophilia?
http://www.mohandasgandhitruth.com/?p=414

No it's still easier to demonise one religion though it's interesting that some Muslims like the Libyans are 'worth' helping even though many of the rebels are radical Muslims fighting against a secular leader while other Muslims are evil and have to be destroyed.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Hi tez nothing in the Buddha teaching says to be violent That I have read. In fact many rules are against it Like the 5 commandments and 5 hellish sins. But why do some Buddhist act violent? To put it simply because they are not followingBuddha dharma and if you don't follow dharma You are not Buddhist

have not seen nor heard of a Violent Taoist yet either

 

[Empty Hands]

have not seen nor heard of a Violent Taoist yet either

Be The Uncarved Block...or else.