Global Image of Islam ...

[Bob Hubbard]

I think the point is, historical context is important, and people always have been *****, and always will be.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

if you dont see a difference between 6 and 16, you are in for a rude awakening

I do, but that wasn't my point. (The 6 yr old is less likely to have braces? might be an observation but someone will get offended I'm sure)
There is a difference between 'married a 6 yr old' and 'shagged a 6 yr old'. I believe the law in question doesn't allow for the 'shagging' part until the girl starts her menstrual cycle, which is natures way of saying 'shes read to breed'. As I don't recall the story ending with 'and she died on her wedding night', one might assume that either the groom was hung like a hamster, or things weren't consummated until nature indicated it was ok. But, even that's not my point. It was just that 'at the time, this was neither unusual or wrong'. Today, in -our- society it is. But that's 6,000+ miles and 1,400+ years later. We also no longer think cutting the hearts out of our war prisoners is cool but the Mayans and Aztecs were fine with it a couple hundred years ago.

 

[elder999]

Ok you didn't blame, you condemned, and you can't condemn a part and not the whole. No matter what. You said. Would that include the likes of the Africans who fed the slave trade? Yes of course it would. They were at the start of the supply chain. They were upstream. They had been at slavery for centuries, before they seen a European. I didn't miss anything I was completing it providing more background, but you missed that too. :idunno:

I didn't miss anything. It didn't need "more background." The point was that I can no more blame any of those people: Mexicans for Aztecs,Spanish for Conquest, Texans for Jim Bowie, than one can blame Islam for Mohammad.

Didn't you get splashed with the sarcasm dripping from my post?

I think the point is, historical context is important, and people always have been *****, and always will be.

What Bob said....:lfao:

 

[JohnEdward]

When I read of religious terrorist/criminal incidents like this one, I am ever given to wonder if those that carry them out think for a moment on just how their actions will actually reflect upon their religion?

No. Because as you know it is because they think they are right, they are just, no matter what they say or do. Because religion bends to man, man doesn't bend to religion.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Relativism < There are 2 links there


Don’t judge the past just by today’s standards

If judged by today’s standards, even the greatest of our historical heroes become monsters

 

[Tez3]

Relativism < There are 2 links there


Don&#8217;t judge the past just by today&#8217;s standards

Nice links, thank you.

 

[JohnEdward]

We say fanatical islam, we say evil Quran (I agree with of that). But where does that stem from, the people. Who are those people? The same people who started the other two religions and wrote texts before them. These people from that region were violent, and they still are thousands of years later. The feel, violence solves problems. Now two of those religions have people are far more civilized than the one which hasn't caught on to the benefits of civilized behavior. You can't single out say Jim Bowie for the slave trade demonize him for what he did, you have to look at Africans their role and culture in slavery. Islam nutters reflects upon Judaism and Christianity, as they were nutters too. In fact the whole monotheistic religions at one time where no different. Thank God (i know) Judaism and Christianity become modernized and changed, unlike Islam who is full of people who don't want change and are still barbaric in the region of its origin and else where, i.e. am not going to be marked for death because I drew a picture of Abraham, or Christ in this high tech over saturated image world. Instead, I will have Jews and Christians mad at me as hornets, if I offend them. Thank God, I am not worried about Jews threatening me with death, as I do worry about some fanatical conservative nut job Christians threatening me with violence and death, who take the Old Testament literally. But that is individual cases and not on a global scale of Muslims. Remember Salman Rushdie?

Tez, now you can rip me a new one.

 

[Tez3]

We say fanatical islam, we say evil Quran (I agree with of that). But where does that stem from, the people. Who are those people? The same people who started the other two religions and wrote texts before them. These people from that region were violent, and they still are thousands of years later. The feel, violence solves problems. Now two of those religions have people are far more civilized than the one which hasn't caught on to the benefits of civilized behavior. You can't single out say Jim Bowie for the slave trade demonize him for what he did, you have to look at Africans their role and culture in slavery. Islam nutters reflects upon Judaism and Christianity, as they were nutters too. In fact the whole monotheistic religions at one time where no different. Thank God (i know) Judaism and Christianity become modernized and changed, unlike Islam who is full of people who don't want change and are still barbaric in the region of its origin and else where, i.e. am not going to be marked for death because I drew a picture of Abraham, or Christ in this high tech over saturated image world. Instead, I will have Jews and Christians mad at me as hornets, if I offend them. Thank God, I am not worried about Jews threatening me with death, as I do worry about some fanatical conservative nut job Christians threatening me with violence and death, who take the Old Testament literally. But that is individual cases and not on a global scale of Muslims. Remember Salman Rushdie?

Tez, now you can rip me a new one.

Agggh! It's my birthday. my son has bought me chocs and a day pass for a spa so I'm going to chill lol! On the other hand I'm in Yorkshire and it's Mischief Night tonight so I may have something to say later!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8339617.stm

 

[Bob Hubbard]

The sad thing about it all is that going back to the Global Image idea, we don't have an accurate image of the religion.
We don't see the 2.4 -BILLION- people that are just going about their lives like we do, in peace.
We see the 200,000 or so radicals who are out making a stink about things, making threats, making people afraid and panicky. We see the ones who are screaming death, destruction and whatnot.
And it is from them that we draw our picture. It skews the perspective.
I -live- surrounded by Muslims. I shop at Muslim stores. I eat at Muslim eateries. They are normal folks. Ok, so some of the women dress like ninjas. So do 1/20th of the folks on MartialTalk. Big deal.
I don't feel threatened. I don't feel at risk.
"They" are just as bothered by this "image", more so in fact.
Because to them, it is an incorrect image of what their faith is -today-.

 

[Jenna]

It strikes me that the views of some on here are limited to what is received onto their various devices? Opinions formed from a narrow range of sources cannot surely be relied upon for accuracy? In this age of information, there is no excuse for badly-informed or partly-informed ignorance. Are you always satisfied by what you are told?

Rhetorically, I wonder how many on this thread have established their opinions based upon firsthand facts and how many upon agenda-driven media and governmental agencies. Of course, when even the governments are patently islamophobic under their public masks, I guess the mindless mass has little option except to sheep along. http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/09/fbi-muslims-radical/all/1

So... Once more with feeling, just as guns do not kill people; people kill people, so also, religion does not kill people; religious zealots kill people.

Islam is a religion of peace. Those that commit criminal acts do so with contempt for The Word. If they tell you otherwise, brandish it across their bodies, burn flags to prove it or if it is claimed such in your media, disregard it. Islam is a religion of peace. Throughout history fanatics and zealots have used their variant religions as the most blasphemous shield of convenience for their cruelty, personal or cultural or even national hatred and racism. Yet none of these acts were ever committed according to The Word of God. To suggest otherwise is to speak with a mouthful of what someone else has put there; it is to generalise the acts of the deluded and the criminally violent and extrapolate it to encompass the teachings of God. Such generalisations while convenient and fitting neatly into sixty second news roundups and propaganda for the inevitability of major war in the Middle East are hardly the position of anyone with the nous to paint a picture for theirselves of true multi-dimensional objectivity.

That the west is islamophobic does not mean that Islam is a religion of anything other than peace. That you choose to believe every picture you have painted for you by your news bulletins and siphon out those that do not fit wil ensure that your slanted picture of Islam holds eternally true. That criminal acts have been committed by those purportedly "supporting" Islam simply proves that people as individuals and societies and nations like to homogenise, exclude, ostracise and hate "other" people. None of these acts have anything to do with the intended crux of the Word of God in the context of C21st existence. They have everything to do with our bloodlust and need to hate each other. I mean, you probably hate me for suggesting this. Or at least would condescend to pity me for my incorrect view. That is fine. I am entitled to my opinion just as you are.

The Word of God is peace.

Ultimately, I do not care what religion. Religion is not God. Religion is ritual. Religion is not needed to know God in the personal sense. So I do care what religion you love or you hate. Or which you believe is wrong and which is right. That argument is facile and limited, concerning ONLY Man and human notions and neither God nor holy notions in the truest sense.

If you avow hatred of another (as witnessed in many of these posts), then you do not know God. Perhaps you do not care to. That is fine also. Nevertheless, religious or not, in avowing hatred of others you neither understand the Word of God, nor should you feel aloof about being in some way "better" than those fanatically blasphemous and often violent individuals about whom this thread was initially about. If you hate, then you are no better than they.

I seek to prove nothing to you. Thi sis a one-post-no-follow-up deal. If you hate Islam. That is fine. If you hate religion, that is fine also. Hate me too that is ok. I am only trying to present a some kind of symmetry.

Blindly following the propaganda that we are spun by those agencies and cabals with their own agendas of corporation and control is how humanity through the ages has ended up committing one genocide and holocaust after another.

This is exactly where we are heading now.

 

[elder999]

So... Once more with feeling, just as guns do not kill people; people kill people, so also, religion does not kill people; religious zealots kill people.

Islam is a religion of peace. Those that commit criminal acts do so with contempt for The Word. .

Even if I could rep you, Jenna-I couldn't rep you enough. :asian:

 

[JohnEdward]

Agggh! It's my birthday. my son has bought me chocs and a day pass for a spa so I'm going to chill lol! On the other hand I'm in Yorkshire and it's Mischief Night tonight so I may have something to say later!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8339617.stm

Happy birthday, don't rip into when your in a good mood, it loses the effect....

 

[fangjian]

Christians, Muslims, Theists etc.

I know that 99% of you are decent people.

But here's the thing. A large % of you all, feel that my children deserved to be tortured. Since you hold bizarre and sick beliefs like this, we CAN NOT be friends.

Oops now I'm gettin off topic.

I think the global image of Islam form everyone else's perspective is negative because a decent portion of regular law abiding Muslims show sympathy for the terrorists. Like the Christians who target abortion clinics. Most Christians wouldn't do something like that, but there are many who show sympathy to the criminal. I think it's more widespread in Islam though.

 

[Tez3]

Christians, Muslims, Theists etc.

I know that 99% of you are decent people.

But here's the thing. A large % of you all, feel that my children deserved to be tortured. Since you hold bizarre and sick beliefs like this, we CAN NOT be friends.

Oops now I'm gettin off topic.

I think the global image of Islam form everyone else's perspective is negative because a decent portion of regular law abiding Muslims show sympathy for the terrorists. Like the Christians who target abortion clinics. Most Christians wouldn't do something like that, but there are many who show sympathy to the criminal. I think it's more widespread in Islam though.

And these guys? Where do they fall in with people's perceptions?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12504162

 

[JohnEdward]

It strikes me that the views of some on here are limited to what is received onto their various devices? Opinions formed from a narrow range of sources cannot surely be relied upon for accuracy? In this age of information, there is no excuse for badly-informed or partly-informed ignorance. Are you always satisfied by what you are told?

Rhetorically, I wonder how many on this thread have established their opinions based upon firsthand facts and how many upon agenda-driven media and governmental agencies. Of course, when even the governments are patently islamophobic under their public masks, I guess the mindless mass has little option except to sheep along. http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/09/fbi-muslims-radical/all/1

So... Once more with feeling, just as guns do not kill people; people kill people, so also, religion does not kill people; religious zealots kill people.

Islam is a religion of peace. Those that commit criminal acts do so with contempt for The Word. If they tell you otherwise, brandish it across their bodies, burn flags to prove it or if it is claimed such in your media, disregard it. Islam is a religion of peace. Throughout history fanatics and zealots have used their variant religions as the most blasphemous shield of convenience for their cruelty, personal or cultural or even national hatred and racism. Yet none of these acts were ever committed according to The Word of God. To suggest otherwise is to speak with a mouthful of what someone else has put there; it is to generalise the acts of the deluded and the criminally violent and extrapolate it to encompass the teachings of God. Such generalisations while convenient and fitting neatly into sixty second news roundups and propaganda for the inevitability of major war in the Middle East are hardly the position of anyone with the nous to paint a picture for theirselves of true multi-dimensional objectivity.

That the west is islamophobic does not mean that Islam is a religion of anything other than peace. That you choose to believe every picture you have painted for you by your news bulletins and siphon out those that do not fit wil ensure that your slanted picture of Islam holds eternally true. That criminal acts have been committed by those purportedly "supporting" Islam simply proves that people as individuals and societies and nations like to homogenise, exclude, ostracise and hate "other" people. None of these acts have anything to do with the intended crux of the Word of God in the context of C21st existence. They have everything to do with our bloodlust and need to hate each other. I mean, you probably hate me for suggesting this. Or at least would condescend to pity me for my incorrect view. That is fine. I am entitled to my opinion just as you are.

The Word of God is peace.

Ultimately, I do not care what religion. Religion is not God. Religion is ritual. Religion is not needed to know God in the personal sense. So I do care what religion you love or you hate. Or which you believe is wrong and which is right. That argument is facile and limited, concerning ONLY Man and human notions and neither God nor holy notions in the truest sense.

If you avow hatred of another (as witnessed in many of these posts), then you do not know God. Perhaps you do not care to. That is fine also. Nevertheless, religious or not, in avowing hatred of others you neither understand the Word of God, nor should you feel aloof about being in some way "better" than those fanatically blasphemous and often violent individuals about whom this thread was initially about. If you hate, then you are no better than they.

I seek to prove nothing to you. Thi sis a one-post-no-follow-up deal. If you hate Islam. That is fine. If you hate religion, that is fine also. Hate me too that is ok. I am only trying to present a some kind of symmetry.

Blindly following the propaganda that we are spun by those agencies and cabals with their own agendas of corporation and control is how humanity through the ages has ended up committing one genocide and holocaust after another.

This is exactly where we are heading now.

Good points. Like I said this isn't an easy issue to discuss. Not matter what your view is you're bound to piss some one off, hopefully it isn't some wacko fanatic organization or individual wanting you dead because of it.

The core of the issue is there are fanatical religious people out there of the monotheistic belief that subscribe to their violent and barbaric cultural, who have maintained that for thousands of years, do I really need to give the example?

Then there are those who use such culture of which the monotheistic religion came from to justify their violence, especially if it conflicts with their beliefs, just as the previous groups who are not of the same culture, the just another deviation off the same root. We know who they are.

Then there are those of the same culture and monotheistic who fathered these beliefs. And if you piss them off the worse that happens is they don't share their Fast food breakfast bagel sandwich with you, with a few intangible yiddish slurs. Who if you pissed off thousands of years ago, they would have stoned you to death. But they don't do that anymore.

Does this apply to all people? No of course not, just to Pen and Teller. Seriously, Pen isn't a nice guy. But, seriously this of course doesn't apply to everyone, as other generalizations and assumptions don't apply. Again this is really difficult to talk about, it is a minefield, and I think that works in favor for some. When you squelch the dialogue in any way, nothing changes (refering to OP topic).

 

[Bob Hubbard]

MOD NOTE:
Editor issue posts have been moved to the Support area.

 

[elder999]

It strikes me that the views of some on here are limited to what is received onto their various devices? Opinions formed from a narrow range of sources cannot surely be relied upon for accuracy? In this age of information, there is no excuse for badly-informed or partly-informed ignorance. Are you always satisfied by what you are told?

Rhetorically, I wonder how many on this thread have established their opinions based upon firsthand facts and how many upon agenda-driven media and governmental agencies. Of course, when even the governments are patently islamophobic under their public masks, I guess the mindless mass has little option except to sheep along. http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/09/fbi-muslims-radical/all/1

So... Once more with feeling, just as guns do not kill people; people kill people, so also, religion does not kill people; religious zealots kill people.

Islam is a religion of peace. Those that commit criminal acts do so with contempt for The Word. If they tell you otherwise, brandish it across their bodies, burn flags to prove it or if it is claimed such in your media, disregard it. Islam is a religion of peace. Throughout history fanatics and zealots have used their variant religions as the most blasphemous shield of convenience for their cruelty, personal or cultural or even national hatred and racism. Yet none of these acts were ever committed according to The Word of God. To suggest otherwise is to speak with a mouthful of what someone else has put there; it is to generalise the acts of the deluded and the criminally violent and extrapolate it to encompass the teachings of God. Such generalisations while convenient and fitting neatly into sixty second news roundups and propaganda for the inevitability of major war in the Middle East are hardly the position of anyone with the nous to paint a picture for theirselves of true multi-dimensional objectivity.

That the west is islamophobic does not mean that Islam is a religion of anything other than peace. That you choose to believe every picture you have painted for you by your news bulletins and siphon out those that do not fit wil ensure that your slanted picture of Islam holds eternally true. That criminal acts have been committed by those purportedly "supporting" Islam simply proves that people as individuals and societies and nations like to homogenise, exclude, ostracise and hate "other" people. None of these acts have anything to do with the intended crux of the Word of God in the context of C21st existence. They have everything to do with our bloodlust and need to hate each other. I mean, you probably hate me for suggesting this. Or at least would condescend to pity me for my incorrect view. That is fine. I am entitled to my opinion just as you are.

The Word of God is peace.

Ultimately, I do not care what religion. Religion is not God. Religion is ritual. Religion is not needed to know God in the personal sense. So I do care what religion you love or you hate. Or which you believe is wrong and which is right. That argument is facile and limited, concerning ONLY Man and human notions and neither God nor holy notions in the truest sense.

If you avow hatred of another (as witnessed in many of these posts), then you do not know God. Perhaps you do not care to. That is fine also. Nevertheless, religious or not, in avowing hatred of others you neither understand the Word of God, nor should you feel aloof about being in some way "better" than those fanatically blasphemous and often violent individuals about whom this thread was initially about. If you hate, then you are no better than they.

I seek to prove nothing to you. Thi sis a one-post-no-follow-up deal. If you hate Islam. That is fine. If you hate religion, that is fine also. Hate me too that is ok. I am only trying to present a some kind of symmetry.

Blindly following the propaganda that we are spun by those agencies and cabals with their own agendas of corporation and control is how humanity through the ages has ended up committing one genocide and holocaust after another.

This is exactly where we are heading now.

QFT.....and to get the thread back on track....and because everyone should read the young lady's wisdom.

 

[Twin Fist]

Islam is a religion of peace.

no, it isnt, and you need to wake up, OR quit telling that lie

the koran preached murder, rape and violence from start to end, and it preaches conversion BY FORCE

thats the FACTS, your wishfull thinking is irellevant.

That the west is islamophobic does not mean that Islam is a religion of anything other than peace.

it isnt islamophobia when they are in fact trying to kill you because thier book TELLS THEM TO KILL YOU IF YOU DONT CONVERT

****, you need to learn to tell the truth, or you need to learn the truth, because the crap you are talking ISNT TRUE

 

[Twin Fist]

religion does not kill people; religious zealots kill people.

this religion actually DOES tell it's people to kill people.

and they do

 

[Twin Fist]

except that she is wrong

QFT.....and to get the thread back on track....and because everyone should read the young lady's wisdom.