Gays in the MA's

[tellner]

For example I can belive that the sexes are not equal, but that does not make me a sexist...

Oh? What does it mean, then?

Dictionary definitions are always tricky, but they are good places to start. Let's take a look at Merriam-Webster:

Main Entry: sex·ismPronunciation: \ˈsek-ˌsi-zəm\ Function: noun Etymology: 1sex + -ism (as in racism) Date: 1968 1: prejudice or discrimination based on sex; especially : discrimination against women2: behavior, conditions, or attitudes that foster stereotypes of social roles based on sex

Unless you can do some pretty fancy shucking and jiving you've just stepped on your member and shot yourself in the foot. Your response will probably be along the lines of:

"I didn't mean not equal. I meant not absolutely identical. There are these inborn differences which mean that men and women are different. Not that we should treat anyone unfairly, but really, you have to acknowledge reality and treat the dear little things according to the way they are. They're just not as rational or strong as men. They get these funny moods every few weeks. It's just wrong when one of them is in charge. Oh, I'll grant that there are a few exceptions..."

Been there. Done that. Bought the unisex one size fits nobody t-shirt.

 

[CoryKS]

Wow. Cue the Tourette's of Righteousness.

 

[newGuy12]

Been there. Done that. Bought the unisex one size fits nobody t-shirt.

Wait -- wait... Now, this is getting off of the topic (which is fine with me), but this is something that is interesting. Now, before I say anything, let me say this -- it has no bearing AT ALL what I think about anything, because I do not run a school, I do not hire anyone, I am a "nobody" when it counts about these things. I have a very simple life.

Now, that being said, that it really doesn't matter what I think, I will tell you... We all know, or should know -- that a woman can learn to fight well. I myself have had fellow students who were women and they gave me good contest in the freesparring. Sometimes they were better than me. I am talking about when I was younger and my technique was much better than it is now. We had women students that could freespar better than me! So, I know that there is no sense in saying that a woman cannot do these martial arts as well as they wish to do them, provided like a man student that they practice well.

But, suppose that ON THE WHOLE, you were given the choice that -- "Quick! I will provide you with only one person to help you get through this bad neighborhood -- we have one man and one woman, which one will you take? Quick!"

Surely you would not say to take the woman? How many women choose to do the martial arts compared to men? Not very many. Every school that I have ever been to, there are more men students than women. I think its because women OVERALL do not like to do these as much as men do OVERALL.

That being said, most men are stronger than most women. Sure, SOME MEN are not as strong as SOME WOMEN, but this is the special case. Do you not think that TYPICALLY SPEAKING ("across the board") that a man is not stronger than a woman?

This is not put down women. This is just simply the truth, more times than it is not. No one can deny this. In the Army, the physical fitness test is different for the man than for the woman soldier. Why? Because this makes sense -- now, on the rifle range, the women soldier TYPICALLY scores higher -- why? Because they do not tend to hold the weapon tight -- they prefer to cradle it -- this gives better accuracy. This is not fanciful thinking.

So, to say that men and women are the same in all ways, this does not seem right. To say that one or the other is better TYPICALLY at one thing or another, TYPICALLY, I think this is true, though with training, of course, this can be changed.

I am not trying to stir up trouble with this, really. That is not my intention.

 

[tellner]

Nah, on second thought I'll ditch this post.

 

[theletch1]

now, on the rifle range, the women soldier TYPICALLY scores higher -- why? Because they do not tend to hold the weapon tight -- they prefer to cradle it -- this gives better accuracy. This is not fanciful thinking.
.

I'm taking issue only with this part of the post. I'm not touching the rest of it, nuh, unh, no way, no how.

Those individuals who typically score higher on the rifle range are those folks who've NEVER fired a rifle before. It has nothing to do with gripping vs cuddling your weapon. It has everything to do with old habits that may work fine with a hunting rifle that won't work so well with the standard issue rifle. When a PMI trains a recruit to fire their weapon they teach them everything they need to know to fire it accurately (this is from the USMC standard, soldiers and sailors will have to speak for themselves) and having old habits gets in the way of this.

 

[Scarey]

I don't, personally, even see why this is an issue. How does the object of one's attraction have any bearing on the other activities they engage in? Unless you're into martial arts for some sexual purpose, sexuality shouldn't enter the equation.

 

[Tez3]

I don't, personally, even see why this is an issue. How does the object of one's attraction have any bearing on the other activities they engage in? Unless you're into martial arts for some sexual purpose, sexuality shouldn't enter the equation.

This is absolutely right! No disrespect to the OP but I can't see why it was even posted in the first place to be honest!
Incidentally, it's not illegal to be gay in the British forces nor transexual. We have civil partnerships here so gay people get married legally.

 

[terryl965]

This is absolutely right! No disrespect to the OP but I can't see why it was even posted in the first place to be honest!
Incidentally, it's not illegal to be gay in the British forces nor transexual. We have civil partnerships here so gay people get married legally.

Like I said earlier I will train anybody as long as they are not some type of sex offender or rappist.

 

[newGuy12]

Those individuals who typically score higher on the rifle range are those folks who've NEVER fired a rifle before. It has nothing to do with gripping vs cuddling your weapon. It has everything to do with old habits that may work fine with a hunting rifle that won't work so well with the standard issue rifle. When a PMI trains a recruit to fire their weapon they teach them everything they need to know to fire it accurately (this is from the USMC standard, soldiers and sailors will have to speak for themselves) and having old habits gets in the way of this.

Its certainly not worth arguing, but for reference I will say that I was told this by an Army DI. True, he said that if people simply do as they are told to do, their score will be optimized. Simply do as you are told -- do not grip the weapon tightly, but rather let it REST in the forward hand (this is from the supported position with the firer in a standing position and the forward arm supported -- their feet are below the ground).

Now, it may be that this is ONLY because the women typically did not previously fire the rifle at a range? I do not know, all I know is this smokey-bear Man, who was a real DI told this to me, he said, without fail, every single time, you can see the scores break down this way on the rifle range.

Why exactly? He did not say? Was he lying? I have no reason to believe that he would lie, there would be no gain in that.










Well, then, I should have not posted what I did post. I was not trying to cause any trouble. I would prefer that in the future I will not run my mouth about what I think about things like this that benefit no one. There's no reason to ruffle feathers, and I do not seek to be a Troll. I would rather not post anywhere than to try to rile users up, I hope that that is known.

You users can know that I like this board a lot, but maybe it is just best for me to not engage in any of these controversial threads, because I may step on toes. Its just better to not say anything then, rather to offend, there is not benefit from that.

You all have my respect, that is not a lie. I learn many things and have many good times from reading these posts. You are all fine enough people, from what I can tell.







Sincerely,

Robert

 

[navyvetcv60]

As far as I know there is not any queers where I learn Kung-Fu, Like most everybody here has said, talking about your sexual orientation has no place in martial arts, it has no place anywhere except with your mate.
I really don't care if someone is queer, just don't try to make me accept your life style.

 

[grydth]

A person's sexual preference makes no difference to me, in MA or anything else.

 

[jks9199]

I want to answer "it doesn't matter."

But I'm reasonably aware of my prejudices. I won't say that knowing I'm training with an openly gay guy might not make me uncomfortable... At the same time, I recall one of the most surreal conversations I ever had... I was working as a waiter, and I was standing at the front desk of the restaurant. I was chatting with another waiter, and the two hostess. We were all talking about the hot blondes across the way... The openly gay waiter and the straight hostess were discussing the guy, and I was discussing the gal with the gay hostess!

As a general rule -- I don't care who your sexual partners are when we train. I believe in using good universal precautions no matter who is bleeding -- because too many things that are carried in blood or bodily fluids aren't really all that good about knowing who they're supposed to be infecting...

 

[kidswarrior]

I don't know about being gay in MA most of the people I train with are misreable buggers with nowt to be happy about!

:wink2:

Oh, Irene, you date yourself. Regarding the fact you remember when gay actually meant happy, consider your age now publicly 'outed' :rofl:

But on the serious side, I'm with you on this:

No disrespect to the OP but I can't see why it was even posted in the first place to be honest!

 

[myusername]

Well, then, I should have not posted what I did post. I was not trying to cause any trouble. I would prefer that in the future I will not run my mouth about what I think about things like this that benefit no one. There's no reason to ruffle feathers, and I do not seek to be a Troll. I would rather not post anywhere than to try to rile users up, I hope that that is known.

You users can know that I like this board a lot, but maybe it is just best for me to not engage in any of these controversial threads, because I may step on toes. Its just better to not say anything then, rather to offend, there is not benefit from that.

You all have my respect, that is not a lie. I learn many things and have many good times from reading these posts. You are all fine enough people, from what I can tell.

Sincerely,

Robert

Don't worry Robert I don't believe anybody would think that you were trolling! Your posts are always respectful and from what I have read you contribute a lot to this forum and seem a thoroughly nice chap! A forum is a place for an exchange of ideas and opinions and that was exactly what you were doing. Just because some disagree does not mean you should not post your thoughts. If you post in the controversial threads expect some polarising of views as that is why the thread is controversial. Please keep posting as it keeps the debate alive and its fun!

 

[Jade Tigress]

Don't worry Robert I don't believe anybody would think that you were trolling! Your posts are always respectful and from what I have read you contribute a lot to this forum and seem a thoroughly nice chap! A forum is a place for an exchange of ideas and opinions and that was exactly what you were doing. Just because some disagree does not mean you should not post your thoughts. If you post in the controversial threads expect some polarising of views as that is why the thread is controversial. Please keep posting as it keeps the debate alive and its fun!

I second that. :asian:

As far as I know there is not any queers where I learn Kung-Fu, Like most everybody here has said, talking about your sexual orientation has no place in martial arts, it has no place anywhere except with your mate.
I really don't care if someone is queer, just don't try to make me accept your life style.

Not only is your choice of words rude, but I can't imagine a single homosexual who would go into the martial arts to hit on, or push their orientation on classmates.

I read the OP with the view that he was talking more about homophobic "macho men" in the martial arts. It's obvious that the majority of members on Martial Talk do not have this problem and sexual orientation is not an issue. But as geezer stated, it used to be far more prevalent and I'm sure there are some places and people left for whom it still is.
Those *martial artists*, and I use the term loosely, who would have an issue with it, are insecure bullies who need to puff themselves up through their training and lack of respect for anyone who doesn't view the world the same way they do. LUZERS.

 

[Tez3]

I admit it, I'm dated! LOL!

However I also remember when the word "queer" was used and then as now it's offensive.

Mew Guy don't beat yourself up, you weren't at all offensive or upsetting!

 

[Carol]

However I also remember when the word "queer" was used and then as now it's offensive.

There were a few reports to the mod team about the use of the word "queer" in this thread.

We're discussing the matter.

In the mean time, carry on with the discussion but please keep it polite and respectful.

- Carol Kaur
- MT Sr. Moderator

 

[K' Evans]

Actually I think this is quite a good topic for discussion. I can see that many of the people who replied, don't have a problem with gays in the MA, but I have to admit, that I still encounter those martial artists who carry a "macho"-kind of attitude and would make jokes about gays and etc. I think there has always been this lingering culture about asserting "masculinity", and unfortunately gays have been the receiving end of their jokes. I really don't like the attitude of course, but somehow I find that sometimes these martial artists aren't exactly sexist or prejudiced, because the truth is that they would still train with somebody who is gay. But it's just that they have been brought up in a culture which breeds such attitudes.

 

[elder999]

While I'm not trying to defend the use of the word, "queer," I have to say that I remember people in the Gay Pride Parade in NYC chanting "We're here; we're queer; get used to it!"

OF course, I'm a bit dated myself, but I can see the confusion. It might be kind of like finding "Negro" offensive, though......

 

[Tez3]

While I'm not trying to defend the use of the word, "queer," I have to say that I remember people in the Gay Pride Parade in NYC chanting "We're here; we're queer; get used to it!"

OF course, I'm a bit dated myself, but I can see the confusion. It might be kind of like finding "Negro" offensive, though......

It may be a Transatlantic thing again? I find it very offensive as do my gay friends. Although using in that context is probably a good idea as it tends to take the sting out of the word.
When we are training we are usually too out of breath or in pain to actually articualte any like or dislike of anything let along sexual orientation. the most you'll get out of us is "water!" well apart from the cries of pain and pleas to god and Jesus! We are very religious in training, when an arm bar goes on! Seriously though we don't have the time or inclination to worry about sex, gender or much else really.
After training the discussion is on fights, fighters, training methods etc. Very very boring for non MA family and friends.