Gays in the MA's

[geezer]

Have you noticed that the martial arts foster a lot of macho attitudes, and sometimes I'm as guilty as anybody. But that doesn't make it a good thing. If you've been in the arts for a long enough time, you'll remember when sexism and racism were still common in a lot of schools. Fortunately, that's dying out, I think. Here's my question--do you have openly gay martial artists in your school? How do you feel about training with gay students, classmates or instructors?

 

[Blindside]

Have you noticed that the martial arts foster a lot of macho attitudes, and sometimes I'm as guilty as anybody. But that doesn't make it a good thing. If you've been in the arts for a long enough time, you'll remember when sexism and racism were still common in a lot of schools. Fortunately, that's dying out, I think. Here's my question--do you have openly gay martial artists in your school? How do you feel about training with gay students, classmates or instructors?

No, not currently, but I have had them at other schools, and I didn't care then, and I don't care now. If I can roll with a female in BJJ and somehow control my urges to rip all our clothes off and mount her right there, I suspect a gay male can do the same for me.

Lamont

 

[YoungMan]

Wouldn't bother me any more than having Black, Latino, Arabic, or female students.
I probably have had or been in contact with gay students and never knew it.

 

[newGuy12]

Have you noticed that the martial arts foster a lot of macho attitudes, and sometimes I'm as guilty as anybody. But that doesn't make it a good thing. If you've been in the arts for a long enough time, you'll remember when sexism and racism were still common in a lot of schools. Fortunately, that's dying out, I think. Here's my question--do you have openly gay martial artists in your school? How do you feel about training with gay students, classmates or instructors?

The martial arts ARE "macho" -- you have to FORCE the energy out -- think about breaking techniques -- these are not jokes. Its not playing around -- you must focus the energy and then --> go THROUGH the target!

Now, I do not remember anything weird about races in my school, even back when I first joined, which was in the late 1970's. Nothing like that would be tolerated -- we were all practicing together -- getting more powerful together!

Now, I cannot say for sure what this would be like, to practice the martial arts with some gay or lesbian student. I can only go by what the stereotypes might suggest -- one might think that if a woman were a lesbian they might be "tougher"? IF that is the case, then that makes training easier -- just do this!

Now, if a man is gay and because of that is fearful of contact, or such (and I'm not saying this is the case -- and even if it is, most likely individual differences would widely vary?), then this is a barrier to learning, and it must be negotiated. No matter who the student it, they must learn to accept the contact and not be too fearful of it. They must become desensitized to it, if they are to advance in skill!

But -- the way that our classes are held, once the class starts, such things would be of little affect (effect?)? Because once the class starts, and you bow, then the SabumNeem will call out motions, we warm up, more, more, then --



BAM! Here, its on! Go! Kick, kick,kick!!! You hear only his voice! At that point, the student next to you is only an energy, going along with you like the next little magnet in the big magnet!

then -- bow and do forms -- no time for thinking of other things, political affiliation or sexual preference or whatever -- you will kick this target until you do YOUR form -- in front of the Teacher!

freesparring -- fast, fast! accurate, precise -- no time for other thoughts!

cool down -- good feeling comes now -- everyone is happy.

No, I don't think it would be problematic to have someone who has some preference such as this to be in the school, not if the SabumNeem is okay with it, and the classes are led properly. But, I like to think that this TKD is for everyone. Even those with physical handicaps.






Robert

 

[Flying Crane]

I trained for a number of years in a school with a teacher who is a lesbian, and a large portion of the students are gay or lesbian. It was never a problem, the training was excellent, and I never had a reason to feel uncomfortable by my teacher's and classmates' sexual orientation. Nobody was pushy or crass about it. It was a great place to train.

 

[DArnold]

Have you noticed that the martial arts foster a lot of macho attitudes, and sometimes I'm as guilty as anybody. But that doesn't make it a good thing. If you've been in the arts for a long enough time, you'll remember when sexism and racism were still common in a lot of schools. Fortunately, that's dying out, I think. Here's my question--do you have openly gay martial artists in your school? How do you feel about training with gay students, classmates or instructors?

As it has nothing to do with MA's it has always been irrelivant!

 

[KempoGuy06]

Have you noticed that the martial arts foster a lot of macho attitudes, and sometimes I'm as guilty as anybody. But that doesn't make it a good thing. If you've been in the arts for a long enough time, you'll remember when sexism and racism were still common in a lot of schools. Fortunately, that's dying out, I think. Here's my question--do you have openly gay martial artists in your school? How do you feel about training with gay students, classmates or instructors?

I went to an all male high school for 4 years and graduated with some gay classmates. It didnt bother me then and doesnt now. As long as lines arent crossed I would have no problem training with them.

B

 

[Shotochem]

As it has nothing to do with MA's it has always been irrelivant!

I agree 100%.

As a matter of fact, I would encourage people of any orientation or preference to study MA as well as any race or color.

Why would being gay make a difference?

-Marc-

 

[Tez3]

I don't know about being gay in MA most of the people I train with are misreable buggers with nowt to be happy about!

:wink2:

 

[Xue Sheng]

Here's my question--do you have openly gay martial artists in your school?

I have no idea.... define openly gay

How do you feel about training with gay students, classmates or instructors?

I don't care.

What does sexual preference have to do with training MA?

 

[MarkBarlow]

Sexual orientation is irrelevant. I wouldn't allow a straight to behave in an improper manner on the mat anymore than I would a gay. Sexual behavior, discussion or recruiting doesn't belong in the dojo regardless of gender or orientation.

 

[newGuy12]

Sexual orientation is irrelevant. I wouldn't allow a straight to behave in an improper manner on the mat anymore than I would a gay. Sexual behavior, discussion or recruiting doesn't belong in the dojo regardless of gender or orientation.

Right -- there should be no way to distinguish these things in the dojang. This is for practice!

 

[CoryKS]

Can't think of a single way in which sexual orientation matters in MA. But if you are suggesting that gays can't be macho, then everything we've learned from the Village People is wrong.

 

[bluekey88]

What everyone else said.

To quote the great film "PCU"


IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER!

Peace,
Erik

 

[punisher73]

Sexual orientation is irrelevant. I wouldn't allow a straight to behave in an improper manner on the mat anymore than I would a gay. Sexual behavior, discussion or recruiting doesn't belong in the dojo regardless of gender or orientation.

I agree. No place for it.

 

[Kacey]

Have you noticed that the martial arts foster a lot of macho attitudes, and sometimes I'm as guilty as anybody. But that doesn't make it a good thing. If you've been in the arts for a long enough time, you'll remember when sexism and racism were still common in a lot of schools. Fortunately, that's dying out, I think. Here's my question--do you have openly gay martial artists in your school? How do you feel about training with gay students, classmates or instructors?

As it has nothing to do with MA's it has always been irrelivant!

I agree 100%.

As a matter of fact, I would encourage people of any orientation or preference to study MA as well as any race or color.

Why would being gay make a difference?

-Marc-

What they said. People are people, and come in a wide range of varieties. Why would I care about their sexual orientation, unless they're hitting on people in class, which I don't allow regardless of the gender(s) involved?

 

[Bodhisattva]

Have you noticed that the martial arts foster a lot of macho attitudes, and sometimes I'm as guilty as anybody. But that doesn't make it a good thing. If you've been in the arts for a long enough time, you'll remember when sexism and racism were still common in a lot of schools. Fortunately, that's dying out, I think. Here's my question--do you have openly gay martial artists in your school? How do you feel about training with gay students, classmates or instructors?

I have been at several schools where a classmate was known to be gay.

I have to say people were really mature about it.

 

[newGuy12]

What they said. People are people, and come in a wide range of varieties. Why would I care about their sexual orientation, unless they're [bold]hitting on people in class[/bold], which I don't allow regardless of the gender(s) involved?

Right -- making advances -- we always "hit" on people in the class -- with the punches and kicks! Hahaha!

 

[elder999]

Have you noticed that the martial arts foster a lot of macho attitudes, and sometimes I'm as guilty as anybody. But that doesn't make it a good thing. If you've been in the arts for a long enough time, you'll remember when sexism and racism were still common in a lot of schools. Fortunately, that's dying out, I think. Here's my question--do you have openly gay martial artists in your school? How do you feel about training with gay students, classmates or instructors?

Well, here’s a funny story:

I started in tae kwon do when I was 11 (1971), and when I went to boarding school, at age 13, I sort of switched to kyokushin- I say sort of because I did both for the next 5 years or so-until I gave up tae kwon do- and with both of my teacher’s permission. Anyway, there was this guy Wesley in my kyokushin class-he was two years older than I was, really fast, and a really good technician-”quite macho,” and, as a nerdish congenital klutz who was (at the time) anything but macho, I really looked up to him. Fast forward a few more years:I’ve traveled around the world and been to a couple of colleges, and through a few more martial arts teachers, and I’ve settled down in my home area to work. I meet up with Wesley again, and we become fast friends, in spite of the fact that he’s become……a drag queen.

Now, the guy was a professional dancer, and actually made a “pretty woman,” if you didn’t know any better, anyway. We actually worked security at a couple of parties in Manhattan and the Bronx back in the 80’s-he always worked in drag, and I once saw him take down a couple of guys while wearing high heels.

He also carried a .357 in his purse-pretty macho, if you ask me….. :lol:

There wasn’t anyone I’d rather have at my back-(snicker!)-at the time. In spite of his occasional joking attempts at making me uncomfortable, I never thought much about his sexual orientation one way or the other, right up until he got sick and died…..truly one of the toughest people I’ve ever known, and an impressive technician, as far as martial arts go-and someone who met every standard I could conceive for being “masculinity,” except for one, which was really none of my business.

Short answer, to echo everyone else here: what difference does it make? It certainly didn't make any difference to any of us, at the time-you jsut really didn't want to spar with the guy. Not because he was gay, but because he'd kick yer butt,...

 

[tellner]

Have you noticed that the martial arts foster a lot of macho attitudes, and sometimes I'm as guilty as anybody. But that doesn't make it a good thing. If you've been in the arts for a long enough time, you'll remember when sexism and racism were still common in a lot of schools. Fortunately, that's dying out, I think. Here's my question--do you have openly gay martial artists in your school? How do you feel about training with gay students, classmates or instructors?

Hmm, first "macho" and "gay" aren't necessarily exclusive. Far from it. Consider Sparta and Ernst Rohm just to start with.

I don't know if there are any openly gay students currently. Most people don't talk about sexuality very much in class. There have been gay, lesbian and bisexual students in the past. I've trained in schools where the teacher was an out lesbian. When we taught women's self defense there were plenty of bi and lesbian students and the occasional transitioning male to female. I'm sure there have been others I don't know about. It isn't relevant to class and would be rude to ask.

How do I feel about it? It doesn't matter at all. Sometimes queer students have particular personal issues that affect their training in the same way that anyone can. It's either a big deal or not depending on whether it interferes with class. The same can be said for all people.

One of the usual unspoken questions in discussions like this is "Do you get weirded out working with someone who likes other dudes (or chicks if you're a woman)?" Hiding behind that are "What if I'm in close physical contact with someone who might think I'm hot?" and "Will he do something to me?" and "Will people think I'm gay if I work out with him or change in the same locker room?"

My answers are "So what?", "No", "So what?" and "Nobody worth knowing."

Women working in predominantly male schools have to deal with this sort of thing all the time, and they've got the whole size, strength and social expectations things working against them. They manage. You can, too. Speaking of women, I've found that in general they deal with lesbians in class matter of factly without the drama that gay men in a group of straight men engender (so to speak).