Free Sparring Techniques

Kaygee

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It never fails.....I will go to a tournament and get first place in forms, but not win a single match in free sparring. In fact, out of the six tournaments that I have been in, in my very short martial arts career, I have not won a single free-sparring match.......ever!

My masters don't understand why, because they state that I am a very good fighter, although, that doesn't make much sense to me.....if I was a good fighter, I would win sparring matches, correct?
At one tournament, after I lost, I was shaking one of the judges hands and he said to me, "that was a great fight, you're a good fighter" in which I responded, "I lost sir". He responded, "to me, there are two types of fighters....there are fighters that come into this ring and just beat anyone that they are faced against, and there are people that when threatened in a real life situation outside, they beat their attacker to a pulp and throw them under the dumpster"........after a pause, he said to me, "you come off to me as the latter."

Not sure if that was a compliment or not, but I love when masters say things to me.....I always wind up walking away trying to figure it out for months.....

Now, granted, I do not put much stock in free sparring........performing Tang Soo Do moves for points never made much sense to me.....especially when the points are dependent on whether or not a judge knows what they are doing, or even sees the point/non-point correctly, but I would like to start maybe winning once or twice....or at least IMPROVE!

So if anyone out there wouldn't mind sharing some of their free-sparring techniques I'd appreciate it. To give you some background, I am 38 years old and I have been taught to always be mobile and "on my toes" while sparring. I am about 5 ft 8 in and 190lbs. I do a lot of pushups and left lifts, so I have a lot of muscle in my shoulders and upper chest. I actually think that may be slowing me down a bit.

But, in short (no pun intended) I am just a short, stocky old man that is having difficulties with this part of the art. I have a hard time getting any punches in, because I can never seem to get close enough to throw a punch because everyone is always so hell-bent on kicking that I get jabbed with a side kick or something. I am also told that I am very, very tense (during my forms and during free sparring) and that probably makes my moves more predictable, but unfortunately, I cannot break the tension that lies within my body.

Anyway, any help would be appreciated. Thank you!
 

MAist25

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Hey, I wouldnt sweat it too much. Not being able to win in a ring with highly restrictive rules does not mean you cannot fight. The most important thing in competing isnt bringing home a trophy, its learning and getting better. So, if you can come out of a tournament with more knowledge and being better than when you went in, then thats a hell of a lot more valuable than a shiny piece of plastic. Just keep training hard, keep competing if you enjoy it, and you'll eventually get a win under your belt.
 

mber

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I empathize with you. A lot of TSD tournaments tend to be that way (I don't know about in other styles), unfortunately. A lot of people do train toward the goal of the tournament. One particularly disheartening tournament I went to featured very narrow-minded judges who refused to even accept a move if it did not come straight out of the handbook, but would quickly score points to the lightest touch of any outrageous technique, if it fit the TSD bill.

As for practicality, I think you hit on an important point when you mentioned tension. Tang Soo Do is a very rigid style, comparatively, and I was often told by my masters when I started learning new styles that my movements were very mechanical and rigid from TSD training. It's a hard habit to break, and it probably doesn't help that you do have a solid musculature, since TSD was developed by a people who, let's face it, were somewhat smaller than the average modern western student.
I would say to try practicing a lot of freestyle combos with a punching bag, if you have access to one. Try to loosen yourself up. Work on speed, especially footwork. I don't know how your school works, but there is often a great dissonance between how the formal moves of TSD require your feet to move and how you will want to be moving when you are fighting. TSD sparring does not really resemble TSD fighting in real life -- it's for points, not for the real win, like you said. So it may well be that you're just getting caught up by using some more rigid footwork when you move out of bouncing to attack.
Also, this might sound weird, but I would actually suggest practicing rolls. Rolls and tumbles were one of the fastest and best ways I found to learn to move more smoothly. Good rolling form requires you to free up your body, which in turn requires you to pay attention to how your body is moving mentally.

I hope this helps at least somewhat. Best of luck! Don't let those darn tournaments get you down.
 
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Kaygee

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Hey, I wouldnt sweat it too much. Not being able to win in a ring with highly restrictive rules does not mean you cannot fight. The most important thing in competing isnt bringing home a trophy, its learning and getting better. So, if you can come out of a tournament with more knowledge and being better than when you went in, then thats a hell of a lot more valuable than a shiny piece of plastic. Just keep training hard, keep competing if you enjoy it, and you'll eventually get a win under your belt.
I agree! THe whole trophy thing doesn't bother me. I take into account the whole forms "competition" where they have a set range of scoring for certain belts and such and I think about how canned the whole tournament process is so the fact of winning a shiny plastic thing, as you described it, is not important.

The thing is, that I do not feel as though I am coming out of each tournament with more knowledge than when I went into it. I feel like I am stuck in a rut.

Thank you very much for your response!
 
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Kaygee

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I empathize with you. A lot of TSD tournaments tend to be that way (I don't know about in other styles), unfortunately. A lot of people do train toward the goal of the tournament. One particularly disheartening tournament I went to featured very narrow-minded judges who refused to even accept a move if it did not come straight out of the handbook, but would quickly score points to the lightest touch of any outrageous technique, if it fit the TSD bill.

As for practicality, I think you hit on an important point when you mentioned tension. Tang Soo Do is a very rigid style, comparatively, and I was often told by my masters when I started learning new styles that my movements were very mechanical and rigid from TSD training. It's a hard habit to break, and it probably doesn't help that you do have a solid musculature, since TSD was developed by a people who, let's face it, were somewhat smaller than the average modern western student.
I would say to try practicing a lot of freestyle combos with a punching bag, if you have access to one. Try to loosen yourself up. Work on speed, especially footwork. I don't know how your school works, but there is often a great dissonance between how the formal moves of TSD require your feet to move and how you will want to be moving when you are fighting. TSD sparring does not really resemble TSD fighting in real life -- it's for points, not for the real win, like you said. So it may well be that you're just getting caught up by using some more rigid footwork when you move out of bouncing to attack.
Also, this might sound weird, but I would actually suggest practicing rolls. Rolls and tumbles were one of the fastest and best ways I found to learn to move more smoothly. Good rolling form requires you to free up your body, which in turn requires you to pay attention to how your body is moving mentally.

I hope this helps at least somewhat. Best of luck! Don't let those darn tournaments get you down.
This helps a ton! Thank you very much for your response. I too, am told that I am "mechanical and rigid", so it is weird that you say that. You said it was a hard habit to break....did you break it? If so, TELL ME YOUR SECRET!!! LOL!!! It is one of the most challenging things I have ever encountered.

Last night in class, we were doing Chil Sung ee Lo and there is that one part when you are coming back where you swing your arms back and put your hands in front of you like a pyramid and take a deep breath.........well, my instructor would not let me move on in the form until I came out of the center punch and relaxed my arms back and "let gravity do the work". I struggled, and struggled, but for one short moment, I got it! And my instructor noticed and yelled "THAT'S IT!!!!"

I am going to tell you something......and it may sound weird....but when I did that move totally relaxed, as trivial as the move is, I felt so much power and energy going thru my body, that it was intoxicating! I wish I could learn how to do it more because I want to feel that again! I have bought books on ZEN and Meditation, trying to chill the hell out, but it is my demon.
 

Blindside

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Kaygee,

Have you ever had someone watch you and tell you if you are telegraphing your attacks? Particularly if you tend to be mechanical in your movements and aren't real loose, you can tell your opponent what and when you are attacking quite easily. Common mistakes are weight shifting before launching an attack, loading a punch/kick back to a chamber before a strike, tensing before an attack, or always attacking straight at the opponent rather than flanking them.
 

mber

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This helps a ton! Thank you very much for your response. I too, am told that I am "mechanical and rigid", so it is weird that you say that. You said it was a hard habit to break....did you break it? If so, TELL ME YOUR SECRET!!! LOL!!! It is one of the most challenging things I have ever encountered.

Last night in class, we were doing Chil Sung ee Lo and there is that one part when you are coming back where you swing your arms back and put your hands in front of you like a pyramid and take a deep breath.........well, my instructor would not let me move on in the form until I came out of the center punch and relaxed my arms back and "let gravity do the work". I struggled, and struggled, but for one short moment, I got it! And my instructor noticed and yelled "THAT'S IT!!!!"

I am going to tell you something......and it may sound weird....but when I did that move totally relaxed, as trivial as the move is, I felt so much power and energy going thru my body, that it was intoxicating! I wish I could learn how to do it more because I want to feel that again! I have bought books on ZEN and Meditation, trying to chill the hell out, but it is my demon.

Haha I guess I did break it. My secret? There's only one secret in martial arts...practice. It's not much of a secret, I know, but it's true that anything you want to accomplish will be realized if you keep at it (and have a good instructor.) One of my instructors was fond of saying, "a master isn't someone who has practiced ten thousand techniques once, it is someone who has practiced one technique ten thousand times." Though I'm far from that level, I've already found that bit of wisdom to be very true.

Ah, on the beginning of the second half of the form? I think I know what you're referring to. Sounds like you have a high-quality instructor! It's amazing, isn't it, how little things like that can completely transform you. Maybe you're already on your way to beating this particular challenge :)
 
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Kaygee

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Kaygee,

Have you ever had someone watch you and tell you if you are telegraphing your attacks? Particularly if you tend to be mechanical in your movements and aren't real loose, you can tell your opponent what and when you are attacking quite easily. Common mistakes are weight shifting before launching an attack, loading a punch/kick back to a chamber before a strike, tensing before an attack, or always attacking straight at the opponent rather than flanking them.

Yes! As a matter of fact, when my brother and I trained together, he used to tell me that he could tell when I was going to attack because I would "shift" my body in a way. So you are spot on. The issue now is, how do I stop it from happening..... :(
 
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Kaygee

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Haha I guess I did break it. My secret? There's only one secret in martial arts...practice. It's not much of a secret, I know, but it's true that anything you want to accomplish will be realized if you keep at it (and have a good instructor.) One of my instructors was fond of saying, "a master isn't someone who has practiced ten thousand techniques once, it is someone who has practiced one technique ten thousand times." Though I'm far from that level, I've already found that bit of wisdom to be very true.

Ah, on the beginning of the second half of the form? I think I know what you're referring to. Sounds like you have a high-quality instructor! It's amazing, isn't it, how little things like that can completely transform you. Maybe you're already on your way to beating this particular challenge :)

It gets into my mind when I am in a form or something.....prior to starting a form, I will think to myself "ok, I am going to relaxed and flow thru this" but after a move or two, I am concentrating so hard on doing the technique correctly, that I have tensed up again. It's extremely frustrating.


I really appreciate the responses though. It is so nice to know that there are other people that have experienced this issue. I practice often.....my school only holds adult classes three times per week, and I usually attend all three of them, but I practice at home for an hour and a half two times a week. It is during those times at home where I really try to relax and let the energy flow thru me, but more often than not, my mind wanders and I tense up.

I have an issue with focus too.

***WoW! I just realized after typing that how many issues that I have***

But anyway, I will be doing a form very well, and I will peek out of the side my eye and see my instructor looking at me.....and that's it! My form becomes sloppy, my technique goes out the door.
And my instructor knows this. On a few occasions, when he has given me a correction that I just will not seem to get, he will say to me, "ok, I am going to turn around and look at the wall...do what I just told you", and then I will get it right. One time, he had the whole class look the other way while I struggeled with a certain part of passai. The scary thing is, that it works....which is really not a good thing.
Or if my instructor corrects a fellow student during a form and everyone is just staying in their previous position....if the instructor's corrections take 30-45 seconds, my mind wanders and then I have to gain my bearings again and I always pause to get a grip on what part of the form I am in.

My muscle tenseness and my lack of focus are probably what are leading me to completely suck at free sparring.
 

Cyriacus

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My masters don't understand why, because they state that I am a very good fighter, although, that doesn't make much sense to me.....if I was a good fighter, I would win sparring matches, correct?
At one tournament, after I lost, I was shaking one of the judges hands and he said to me, "that was a great fight, you're a good fighter" in which I responded, "I lost sir". He responded, "to me, there are two types of fighters....there are fighters that come into this ring and just beat anyone that they are faced against, and there are people that when threatened in a real life situation outside, they beat their attacker to a pulp and throw them under the dumpster"........after a pause, he said to me, "you come off to me as the latter."

Not sure if that was a compliment or not, but I love when masters say things to me.....I always wind up walking away trying to figure it out for months.....

Where do the shots that do land, normally land?
And what are They?
 

ETinCYQX

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Is it point stop? Full contact? Continuous? These will help me help you, I'm a short stocky guy too and I do ok :)
 
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Kaygee

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Where do the shots that do land, normally land?
And what are They?

Side kicks to my opponent's side/stomach....I have been told by numerous people that they can never tell when my side kick is coming.
Also, when someone attacks me, I am good with performing a block and then spinning around into a back kick and getting the target in the stomach or swinging around a back hook kick to the head. Even though I do not score a lot of point, numerous masters/judges at tournaments stated that they really like the way I spin and throw kicks.

I have been practicing doing a waist high roundhouse kick followed by a face high roundhouse, without dropping my foot to the ground. That works sometimes, but as I stated in an earlier thread that I created, my hips are my enemy.
I have done the same with a hook kick immediately followed by a roundhouse....that seems to throw people off, but the hook kick usually makes them back off so much that by the time the roundhouse comes back, the kick isn't near them.
I have also practicing doing a waist high side kick and then a face high side kick without putting my foot down. I landed that once and I wound up knocking my opponent's helmet off of him.

Another thing I am good at is when someone tries to "rail me"....I am good with throwing a couple blocks and I usually get my opponent in the face with a solid reverse punch........and I do well against "chargers" because, I stated earlier, my side kick seems to be good.

But out of all of that, I suck at sparring. Go figure.
 

ETinCYQX

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Two things you could try...

1) Countering. My favorite is the jump back kick/turning side kick; force an open stance (opposite legs forward) and when he throws his back leg, counter him with the back kick or even spinning hook kick.

2) Jamming. Works especially well against a lead leg fighter who uses his range. Close him in, force open stance again, and put your lead foot outside of his (towards his back). This takes away his front leg kick completely and makes his back leg round kick have to rotate past 180 degrees. It also allows your back leg round kick to rotate less than 180 degrees.

Few things about open stance; it's a very easy stance to read. People aren't comfortable with it, they feel exposed to the opponent's back leg. (They are). But, that back leg is easy to avoid and even easier to block and read with the foot positioning I mentioned. Especially since you like your blocks, use that to set up your counters.

Using your side kick to your advantage is good too especially if you advance well with it. The problem with the sidekick, unless you're setting up the open stance I discussed, is it becomes a speed game; I try and avoid speed games when giving advice but it may work for you. My athletes are becoming known for using this type of open stance work, seems to do them well too :)
 
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Kaygee

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Two things you could try...

1) Countering. My favorite is the jump back kick/turning side kick; force an open stance (opposite legs forward) and when he throws his back leg, counter him with the back kick or even spinning hook kick.

2) Jamming. Works especially well against a lead leg fighter who uses his range. Close him in, force open stance again, and put your lead foot outside of his (towards his back). This takes away his front leg kick completely and makes his back leg round kick have to rotate past 180 degrees. It also allows your back leg round kick to rotate less than 180 degrees.

Few things about open stance; it's a very easy stance to read. People aren't comfortable with it, they feel exposed to the opponent's back leg. (They are). But, that back leg is easy to avoid and even easier to block and read with the foot positioning I mentioned. Especially since you like your blocks, use that to set up your counters.

Using your side kick to your advantage is good too especially if you advance well with it. The problem with the sidekick, unless you're setting up the open stance I discussed, is it becomes a speed game; I try and avoid speed games when giving advice but it may work for you. My athletes are becoming known for using this type of open stance work, seems to do them well too :)

Wow! Thank you very much! I am going to try this next time I spar. I really appreciate the help. Hopefully I can keep a clear enough mind that i can institute these moves in my fight.

Again, I thank you! Tang Soo!
 

ETinCYQX

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Wow! Thank you very much! I am going to try this next time I spar. I really appreciate the help. Hopefully I can keep a clear enough mind that i can institute these moves in my fight.

Again, I thank you! Tang Soo!

No problem, hope it works for you.
 

Cyriacus

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Side kicks to my opponent's side/stomach....I have been told by numerous people that they can never tell when my side kick is coming.
Also, when someone attacks me, I am good with performing a block and then spinning around into a back kick and getting the target in the stomach or swinging around a back hook kick to the head. Even though I do not score a lot of point, numerous masters/judges at tournaments stated that they really like the way I spin and throw kicks.

I have been practicing doing a waist high roundhouse kick followed by a face high roundhouse, without dropping my foot to the ground. That works sometimes, but as I stated in an earlier thread that I created, my hips are my enemy.
I have done the same with a hook kick immediately followed by a roundhouse....that seems to throw people off, but the hook kick usually makes them back off so much that by the time the roundhouse comes back, the kick isn't near them.
I have also practicing doing a waist high side kick and then a face high side kick without putting my foot down. I landed that once and I wound up knocking my opponent's helmet off of him.

Another thing I am good at is when someone tries to "rail me"....I am good with throwing a couple blocks and I usually get my opponent in the face with a solid reverse punch........and I do well against "chargers" because, I stated earlier, my side kick seems to be good.

But out of all of that, I suck at sparring. Go figure.
Yeah - And if it werent light to mild contact, those reverse punches to the face could well facilitate a full on barrage. Try it on a wall (Without making contact, obviously) if that doesnt make sense from hearing it.
Side Kicks to the midsection out of nowere make for either a good time to get out of there, or follow on the same way as above - Provided the other guy doesnt have a nice strong Midsection. If He does, then... Yeah. But that can be said for anything.
Thats what They mean. Youre not landing enough shots to win by points, but were it not for the absense of Full Contact, Youd be doing far better in terms of actual success, if that makes sense.

For those same leg without placing the foot down kicks, be a bit careful with them. A skilled 'Charger' will make You pay for it in a hurry. Youre usually safer making the first kick more of an inclination than an actual leg extension, just to direct focus, if You must do that kind of thing. And since You seem to like that kind of thing, Side Kick followed by Front Kick, both midsection, without placing the foot down. Just make sure You throw Yourself into the Front Kick, or itll be useless.
 
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Kaygee

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Yeah - And if it werent light to mild contact, those reverse punches to the face could well facilitate a full on barrage. Try it on a wall (Without making contact, obviously) if that doesnt make sense from hearing it.
Side Kicks to the midsection out of nowere make for either a good time to get out of there, or follow on the same way as above - Provided the other guy doesnt have a nice strong Midsection. If He does, then... Yeah. But that can be said for anything.
Thats what They mean. Youre not landing enough shots to win by points, but were it not for the absense of Full Contact, Youd be doing far better in terms of actual success, if that makes sense.

That actually makes complete sense! I guess, if I am reading what you are saying correctly, that I am fighting well, but the whole "point system" is something I have to practice on?

For those same leg without placing the foot down kicks, be a bit careful with them. A skilled 'Charger' will make You pay for it in a hurry. Youre usually safer making the first kick more of an inclination than an actual leg extension, just to direct focus, if You must do that kind of thing. And since You seem to like that kind of thing, Side Kick followed by Front Kick, both midsection, without placing the foot down. Just make sure You throw Yourself into the Front Kick, or itll be useless.

I am not too sure it's a "I like that sort of thing" as to compared to "I am looking for anything deceptive to add to my arsenal" thing....and it was all that I could think of.

I really, really apprecaite your help!
 

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That actually makes complete sense! I guess, if I am reading what you are saying correctly, that I am fighting well, but the whole "point system" is something I have to practice on?



I am not too sure it's a "I like that sort of thing" as to compared to "I am looking for anything deceptive to add to my arsenal" thing....and it was all that I could think of.

I really, really apprecaite your help!

Youre on the right track.
In Self Defense, its never one singular hit. But one singular hit can turn things in Your favor. Of course, theres a ton of variables, but generally Youd be better off than people who tap whatever They can to score.

Deception can be achieved by peculiar angles, and peculiar striking as well. Twisting Kicks (I have no idea if Theyre in TSD [
) and Hook Kicks are great ways of getting to peculiar angles. Two random examples would be Lead Leg Twisting Kick Thigh (Probably wont hit, but it isnt meant to. Aiming low means You wont be blocked and countered as easily) > Step Forward and down > Side Kick Body. Right Hook Kick Body > Step down with feet close, and right leg in front > Left Leg Spinning Heel High Kick (Google tells Me TSD calls it a Spinning Heel [The more weak but fast the hook kick is, the better]).

Im just drawing from My pool of stuff I learnt when I used to do point sparring under the ITF. I used alot of this kind of stuff because if I attempted anything Linear, itd wind up hitting way more than Semi-Contact, despite My efforts not to. So instead, I used deceptive things to deal with points, and worried about less peculiar things in actual Training.
 
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Kaygee

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Youre on the right track.
In Self Defense, its never one singular hit. But one singular hit can turn things in Your favor. Of course, theres a ton of variables, but generally Youd be better off than people who tap whatever They can to score.

Deception can be achieved by peculiar angles, and peculiar striking as well. Twisting Kicks (I have no idea if Theyre in TSD [
) and Hook Kicks are great ways of getting to peculiar angles. Two random examples would be Lead Leg Twisting Kick Thigh (Probably wont hit, but it isnt meant to. Aiming low means You wont be blocked and countered as easily) > Step Forward and down > Side Kick Body. Right Hook Kick Body > Step down with feet close, and right leg in front > Left Leg Spinning Heel High Kick (Google tells Me TSD calls it a Spinning Heel [The more weak but fast the hook kick is, the better]).

Im just drawing from My pool of stuff I learnt when I used to do point sparring under the ITF. I used alot of this kind of stuff because if I attempted anything Linear, itd wind up hitting way more than Semi-Contact, despite My efforts not to. So instead, I used deceptive things to deal with points, and worried about less peculiar things in actual Training.

Twisting kicks are not in TSD ( not the version taught to me anyway) but they do look effective and deceptive.
 
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