First negative feedback on self-defense seminar for girls

shesulsa

Columbia Martial Arts Academy
MT Mentor
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
May 27, 2004
Messages
27,182
Reaction score
482
Location
Not BC, Not DC
Today I received some of the first negative feedback I've ever gotten on my pro bono self-defense seminars for Girl Scouts.

I break the sessions up into age groups so I can address questions and talk about things appropriate for just this age. The coordinator for the event is mom to a female martial arts student (not mine) and prefaces these events by telling the troop leaders about the content and format of my seminars in advance. We count on the leaders to communicate with the parents about concerns and limitations and to pass these things on. Parental attendance is encouraged.

Of course, no one can please everyone and I don't seek to do this - I do, however seek to continuously stay abreast of family concerns and safety concerns. I've never been made aware as to any injury whatsoever in my seminars so some of the feedback was surprising to read. Nevertheless, here it is for others to read. I would like some feedback, please.

I'm posting the entire exchange with names, email addresses and dates filtered for safety solely for the purpose of transparency:


First feedback email to coordinator:
From: *****************
To: ********************
Sent: Sunday, October 2, 2011 ******
Subject: Re: ********** Self Defense Day



Hello,

I am not sure if this class is the same one my daughter took last year but
if it was,it was VERY inappropriate for my daughter's troop. We felt the
class was designed for older girls as there was talk of mugging, raping and
harming (a bit too much detail). Also, some of the drills were too rough
for the girls leaving them crying afterwards. I am not sure if you are the
person to be contacting about this. If not, could you please forward this
to whomever should receive it?

Thank you,


**** ********

Coordinator's reponse:
From: ********
To: ********
Sent: Sunday, October 2, 2011 ******
Subject: Re: ******** Self Defense Day



*********,

I'm very sorry that this was your experience. We have always had very
positive feedback about Georgia's program. In order to really teach safety
she talks very honestly about very real situations in our every day lives.
This isn't always easy to accept when we are dealing with children. Our
experience is that she keeps it age appropriate. Not every child has the
exact same exposure. Where some feel it's stuff their child has never seen
or heard other children have been dealing with it it for years. With that
in mind stuff could be brought up in a group that wouldn't normally come up
in a family setting. The best part about this kind of exposure is it opens
the door for further discussions with your child about keeping them safe
before it's too late. Unfortunately, often times this stuff is discussed
too late. Georgia's goal is to reach every girl before the wrong person
does and give them the tools they need to avoid a dangerous situation. Yes,
this is a very scary topic and one none of us want to have to address but
unfortunately in this world we do. The goal of this program is not to scare
but to prepare.



If you have any further questions feel free to contact ***** or myself.
*******'s email is **************
or ******* at************




******

Next email:

From: **********
To: ***************
Sent: Sunday, October 2, 2011 *********
Subject: Re: ************* Self Defense Day



********,



Just wanting to clarify that I am speaking for my family, not the entire
troop.



I appreciate your response and I too feel it is important to teach girls
about safety and that it is never too early to start. However, I think
there are ways to do this with six and seven year old girls without such a
negative impact (or injuries).



Perhaps a full disclosure of what will be covered in class (and how it is
covered) would help prepare the girls and parents better for the class and
allow parents to make a more informed decision on whether or not to send
their girl.



The purpose of my letter was to hopefully help make this class a more
positive and age appropriate experience for these young, impressionable
girls.



Thank you for your time,

******** *******

And another:
[QUOTE]
Re: ******** Self Defense Day



*******, our girls participated in this a couple of years ago, as 1st year
Juniors. I know EXACTLY what you are talking about when it come to age
appropriateness. When rape was mentioned it kind of threw me off. I don't
know about every other family, but I did not have to explain sex to my
oldest (now 11 years old) until she was in 4th grade and they were about to
watch "the video" in school. So when we were at the class and rape was
mentioned, I wondered to myself how many younger girls were going to ask
their leaders/moms what rape was. As a parent, I would not want to be forced
to explain sex to my daughter before she needs to know about it (or before
myself, as her mother, decide it is the right time to talk to her about it).
I had been planning on bringing my now 8 year old to the self defense class,
but am waiting until I have had the birds and bees talk with her.

I think a full explanation of the class is a great idea!

~********~
mommy to ********, ********, ********, ********, ********
[/QUOTE]


Coordinator's email to me:
From: *************
To: Georgia Ketchmark
Cc:
Sent: Monday, October 3, 2011 5:36 AM
Subject: Self defense day

Georgia,



I was going to contact you regarding this weekend. So far I only have 3
girls signed up. I don't know if it is too early in the year or if it is
that our Service Unit has something going ever weekend and the girls just
had to pick what to do. AND then this popped up on our yahoo group. Corrie
Hawke's response is the one we sent out together regarding your class. So I
don't know quite what to do.



Do you wish to respond and I will post your comments to the yahoo group?
Should we cancel since we have so low enrollment, but that just seems like
we are responding to negative impressions and that the adults who posted are
putting pressure on us to cancel. I am willing to come, if you are, but
like I said only three girls parents responded so far.



Our service unit meeting is tonight, would you want to come talk at it, or
could you type something up for me so I can try to diffuse this all.



I have been impressed with this class and so have many other parents and I
know you do good work, I also know it is not for all girls, or maybe I
should say not all parents are ready to admit that these things exist out in
the world and are lurking waiting for unsuspecting girls.



Let me know what you want to do.


Thanks

******

So in a phone conversation we agreed to delay the class until concerns were met and addressed. Here is the general letter I asked her to send out to the entire group. It doesn't answer every question, but I stand up for my position here.

From: G L Ketchmark <>
Date: October 3, 2011 9:58:09 AM PDT
To: *****************
Subject: Re: Self defense day
Reply-To: G L Ketchmark <>


Hi ********.

Please allow me to thank you for your support and your pro-active attitude in this area. Your daughter is lucky to have a mom such as you!

Here is what I put together. Please feel free to give me YOUR feedback on it before sending out (if you think it needs some tailoring). Thanks again for all you do!

-Georgia

=====================
Good morning!

My name is Georgia Ketchmark and I am a self-defense
instructor, martial artist and mom to three children. I hold self-defense seminars and classes for
all ages and recently received some important feedback from some parents of
young girl scouts who attended my seminar.

It is my highest priority to maintain safety and
age-appropriateness for all girls who come to my seminars. That said, every girl is different and there
are many factors to consider such as home life, individual background, ongoing
learning environment and family values. While I have found that the things we discuss at seminar and techniques
we learn are generally age-appropriate, not everyone is always comfortable
either with the discussion, physical learning and sometimes both. The goal is not to scare the girls but to
prepare them. Sometimes, unfortunately, it is impossible to avoid a fear
response and I rely on each girl's support system to help her through
this.

Teaching our young girls about personal safety is a pivotal
element in growth and development and it is not always consistently pleasant. As a mother of three children (two grown) of
my own, I have to say that I haven't much enjoyed their inductions to the unpleasant
truths of living. Collectively, they have dealt with almost the full gamut of
tragedy &#8230; horrible, horrible things for anyone to face and yet my children &#8211;
and believe it or not, all children &#8211; are facing these things &#8230; if not now,
sooner than we want them to. Every
single time I hold a seminar I review the day with any and all assistants I
have with me and we are consistently astounded at two things: 1. What young
girls are doing without their parents' knowledge and 2. How YOUNG these girls
are learning about sex and other things without their parents' knowledge.

Some girls, thankfully, have very little exposure to
physical aggression and physical self-defense techniques can be a bit jarring
to them. No girl is required to
participate and can opt to step out at any time. I pray that the adults escorting these girls
and supporting them in daily life will see this as an opportunity to open
healthy discussion in regards to self-defense training, the emotional distress
experienced and encourage personal empowerment for these girls as they will
most assuredly benefit from the ability to guard their dignity in the future.

I believe if a child asks a question they require an answer &#8211;
an answer which must satisfy their curiosity at their age and which must contain
an element of truth. When we lie to children, we lose their trust and respect
and hence our place as reliable resources in their frames of reference. I have had more than one young girl (far
younger than I would normally expect) ask me what rape is at seminar. The
youngest to ask me was six years old.

It is impossible to address serious sensitivity in very large
groups. I am happy to give free seminars to individual troops, smaller groups
and to follow up with any troop who wants or needs it. I am also very happy to have a meeting with
troop leaders and parents regarding the content of the seminars at any time
whether the children have already taken the classes from me or are new to
self-defense. Further, I have asked that
the October 8 seminar be postponed until November, giving leaders and parents
an opportunity to prepare some questions and have some discussion with me in
regards to what the girls learn at my seminars. With the permission of the service team, I
will attend the November leader's meeting to answer questions and also hold a
preview meeting for concerned parents and leaders at a date yet to be
determined as of this writing.

If anyone reading this would prefer to speak with me privately I am happy to do so. My email is ************* and my phone number
is ***********.

Your feedback is ALWAYS welcome and appreciated.

Most sincerely,

Georgia Ketchmark


And here is what the two troop co-leaders feel about the situation.
From: **********************************
To: ***********************************
Sent: Monday, October 3, 2011 11:19 AM
Subject: Fwd: Self defense day

What do u think






From: *************
Date: October 3, 2011 ********
To: *******************
Subject: Re: Fwd: Self defense day
Reply-To: *************


I love her email. I guess we nailed it or she just used our email to drive the point home. Whenever you have your child exposed to other children you do NOT know what is going to be said or done. At any point in time they could have a girl blurt something out in their troop and they too would have to come up with an explanation. Many children are not sheltered or filtered in any way. I know as a kid rated R movies were acceptable and nothing was monitored. With M****** we have done just the opposite but that was our choice. I have allowed her to read books that have dealt with date rape and serious issues long before I allowed her to watch the movies. That is because then it's her mind creating the image rather than TV. But that is my choice. We have also talked about things as they have come up.


Parents that thing their children aren't hearing these words at school or on the bus are sadly mistaken. They just don't always know what it means. I have to say that when the paper came home for sex ed I really wasn't ready. And then the whole HIV unit, UGH! But my daughter was more ready than I realized. I have struggled and monitored our troop for many years knowing we had a couple that were very advance in their knowledge and some not so much. But there comes a time when you need to step back and allow them to pose questions and then come to you. Where you can answer them as honestly as possible. It's like the whole party conversation that we just had. I so wasn't ready to think of M****** hearing about this stuff. But once my head is pulled out from the sand I face the fact the conversations aren't new. M***** had a couple of friends that got in trouble at Liberty for dealing drugs. I believe that was in 7th grade. Then I reflect back to a classmate of mine in 7th that had a baby. 4th grade may be too late for some of these kids. Some of these kids have had predators in their lives from very early on. I'm sure that could come up in a group setting at any given time. Rather it be a self defense workshop, school, camp or just on a play date.


I don't think kids should be exposed to sexual talk but they should know that sometimes adults do bad things to children. If the word rape is put out there then explain what it is without great detail. Rape is when one person forces someone to do something they don't want and they hurt that person. Hmmm....described without any sex talk. But by their child knowing that information they then know that they can stop it if ever approached by the wrong person. Knowing something is wrong before someone tells them it is okay is the answer to keeping these kids safe.

:::stepping off my soapbox:::: LOL!

***********

I want to be clear - I was never made aware of any injuries whatsoever other than some over-exhuberance on the part of some girls which was thwarted immediately, of course. There are the occasional tears which usually draws a little extra attention, comfort and a little coaching to the attending adults.

Tear it up, folks.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Sukerkin

Have the courage to speak softly
MT Mentor
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Sep 15, 2006
Messages
15,318
Reaction score
480
Location
Staffordshire, England
Doesn't look like there is much to 'tear up' there Georgia.

Clearly as I don't know any of the people involved I can't really say for certain but this has the sound of a protective parent being a bit surprised at the course content for the age group because they are perhaps judging it from their own early years.

About the only practical thing I can suggest to make things clearer for the parents is to let them know before hand that the subject matter, of necessity, will cover such territory as potential sexual assault.
 

Carol

Crazy like a...
MT Mentor
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Jan 16, 2006
Messages
20,311
Reaction score
541
Location
NH
I think you handled a delicate situation quite well, Georgia.

Suke mentioned the content. Is there more that can be done (ie: greater supervision, more training of the supervisors, more supervisors, etc) so the injury issue is less likely to reoccur?
 

MA-Caver

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 21, 2003
Messages
14,960
Reaction score
312
Location
Chattanooga, TN
Sounds more like to me some folks are upset at the reality that COULD happen to their precious little angels. Denial is a wunnerful thing, if you're a crocodile in Egypt. Yet at the same time it is a scary topic for young ones. Perhaps a different wording (euphemism) on the word "rape" so that tender ears (of the parents) aren't offended. Simply saying "attacked with serious intent to harm you". Yet one would imagine that most kids would have to be concerned with bullies (of either sex) physically attacking them. The reality that there's some perv cruising around their neighborhood waiting for that little slip of the guard to snatch up a potential victim and drive off is still a sad possibility.

Everyone knows it could happen but don't really want to talk about it (evident that we are all still inherently superstitious) because it could happen to them.

As for getting negative feedback, well, look at it as an opportunity to fine tune your class. :D
 

Monroe

Purple Belt
Joined
Sep 11, 2011
Messages
371
Reaction score
2
Location
Nomad
I don't think you've done something wrong but there's always room for improvement. :)
 

clfsean

Senior Master
MT Mentor
MTS Alumni
Joined
Jun 15, 2004
Messages
3,662
Reaction score
354
Location
Metropolitan Tokyo
I wouldn't change a thing. In fact I think you've gone as far as you need to in explaining things.

Times are now way different than when we were kids. Kids, unfortunately... need to be aware of these things earlier on. Sometimes the frank langauge & nature of the topic is a bit much for parents to deal with and accept, but the truth is the truth. It's like a 2x4. When applied appropriately, it leaves a mark. To those parents I hope they withdraw their head from the sand & prep their kids for what could happen out in the world away from their safetynet called home. I'm not talking about "the mean streets". I'm talking about at school or the playground or church or camp or... etc...
 

Cyriacus

Senior Master
Joined
Jun 25, 2011
Messages
3,827
Reaction score
47
Location
Australia
My Opinion:

Pedophilia is not exactly Rare.
Molestation is not exactly Rare.
Children are in a Society where they could be Harmed in more ways than Physically.
It can be by Other Children.
It can be by Adults.
It can be at School.
It could be when they move out of sight for one mere second in the Mall.
And just pretending that possibility doesnt exist is Ignorant.

If more Children were Blatantly Informed of, and Prepared for, Valid Threats against their Wellbeing, less Parents would be left in a Fetal Position wondering why this has happened to THEIR Child.




*Clears Throat*
Otherwise, you handled it well.
Better than you needed to.
You acted more than was even necessary, with the Interests of these Families at Heart.
Salutations.
 

Josh Oakley

Senior Master
Supporting Member
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 15, 2006
Messages
2,226
Reaction score
59
Location
Seattle, WA
Shesulsa, I can't think of anything I would have done differently. Keep it up.
 
OP
shesulsa

shesulsa

Columbia Martial Arts Academy
MT Mentor
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
May 27, 2004
Messages
27,182
Reaction score
482
Location
Not BC, Not DC
I think you handled a delicate situation quite well, Georgia.

Suke mentioned the content. Is there more that can be done (ie: greater supervision, more training of the supervisors, more supervisors, etc) so the injury issue is less likely to reoccur?

Yes, in fact, I'll be calling the leaders to come out and participate - that will help if I don't have enough assistants - and using fewer techniques. I'm really confounded, though, as to which techniques hurt the girls. I'm kind of wondering if the girls just said, "it hurt" when it was what you and I wouldn't think of as serious pain. This still needs addressing, of course, but it's the very first time I've *ever* heard of physical injury at my seminars.

Doesn't look like there is much to 'tear up' there Georgia.

Clearly as I don't know any of the people involved I can't really say for certain but this has the sound of a protective parent being a bit surprised at the course content for the age group because they are perhaps judging it from their own early years.

About the only practical thing I can suggest to make things clearer for the parents is to let them know before hand that the subject matter, of necessity, will cover such territory as potential sexual assault.

I have relied on the coordinating leader to convey this to the leaders and what I'm sure is happening is that those leaders are not conveying this to their parents. So I will be assembling some material to distribute to the leaders and parents in the future.

Gosh it almost makes one wonder what the hell these people think their daughters would actually be learning at a *self* *defense* *seminar* ya know?
 

oftheherd1

Senior Master
Joined
May 12, 2011
Messages
4,685
Reaction score
817
First: everyone has had an upbringing unique to them. They assume the values in their family were correct and taught at an appropriate age, or not. Your values and theirs may be worlds apart. I think you are on the right track, making sure leaders know what you are doing and why. Also sending a letter to the children's parents. As parents, whether or not we agree with them, they are the arbiters of what and when their children should learn certain things. They need to know what you are teaching, what you are going to be discussing, and any topics you expect to be brought up and answered by you.

I understand your concern. I share it. But I wonder if it would be more appropriate to simple teach them defenses for certain types of attack/touching. Never minding any motives an adult or fellow student might have. Also instilling in them that avoiding confrontation is better than defending oneself. I'm not suggesting that, since I don't know where you live or what the majority of parents and schools consider proper behavior, but just throwing it out there for consideration.

As to hurt, who knows? Kids can be funny in how they express themselves. My wife started out asking my children if their stomach hurt, when the correct question would have been do you feel sick to your stomach. English is not my wife's native language. I don't know that would explain what you have learned about some girls have told their parents about you have taught, but perhaps it is worth exploring. It could also be a reaction on some of them's part to fear of what they are learning the self defense for. Rather than say they are afraid, they might be saying it hurt. That hoping they don't have to take that class again. As I said, kids can be funny in how they think and express themselves some times.

Good luck with what you are doing. Your motives are good. I don't think your application is wrong per se, but it would seem some fine tuning in advising parents of what your are teaching and why would help. Perhaps more importantly, explaining to parents how their daughters could react, based on feedback and your observations, would be helpful for them in deciding to send their daughters or opt out. Or prepare their daughters before the class.
 

harlan

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Messages
885
Reaction score
42
Location
Massachusetts
My input, as an old woman, studying martial arts, that has also taken self-defense workshops taught through the local police depts: the initial communication for sign up is critical for reaching people ready for the message. If the course is going to address violence through the 'rape lens', then that needs to be clearly communicated so parents can decide if their kids are able to handle the content.
 

OKenpo942

Purple Belt
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
352
Reaction score
7
Location
Calera/Durant, OK
My Opinion:

Pedophilia is not exactly Rare.
Molestation is not exactly Rare.
Children are in a Society where they could be Harmed in more ways than Physically.
It can be by Other Children.
It can be by Adults.
It can be at School.
It could be when they move out of sight for one mere second in the Mall.
And just pretending that possibility doesnt exist is Ignorant.

If more Children were Blatantly Informed of, and Prepared for, Valid Threats against their Wellbeing, less Parents would be left in a Fetal Position wondering why this has happened to THEIR Child.




*Clears Throat*
Otherwise, you handled it well.
Better than you needed to.
You acted more than was even necessary, with the Interests of these Families at Heart.
Salutations.

I totally agree, but I think a better word than "ignorant" when pretending it doesn't exist would be "negligent". Parents who pretend that these harms do not exist or fail to face these realities and prepare their children for them are neglecting their childs safety. Just my humble opinion, but I think kids need to know about the wolves that are out there and what they are capable of.

Georgia, I applaud you for dealing with issues that many parents are either uncomfortable with or just flat out ignore. God bless you and the occassioal negative feedback that allows you to improve your program and motivate you to keep doing what you are doing because so many think that it is inappropriate or just don't care. Thank you.

James
 

elder999

El Oso de Dios!
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2005
Messages
9,916
Reaction score
1,428
Location
Where the hills have eyes.,and it's HOT!
Just for some perspective: the summer I turned 12 was the first time I saw a man being sodomized depicted in the movies. The movie was Deliverance, and, while I had read of such things, and was aware of them, the movie was a bit of a shock-it really brought home just how horrible such an experience would be. At the end of the day, though, the "fancy takedown bow" was what really left a lasting impression-I just had to have one!

Kids are a lot more resilient and capable than their parents can usually imagine. You did fine-it's an ugly world out there, just as it was nearly 40 years ago that day at the movies-and kids need to know that.

As for the injuries, it's possible that the common confusion between the difference between "injury" and pain is what has taken place here-if the kids were dealing out a little pain to each other, some parents might get a little twisted over that.A statement on content should take care of that-though, having had other issues before, you might want to make sure that someone doesn't have an axe to grind.......of course, that advice comes from a raving paranoiac, so your mileage may vary. :lfao:
 

jks9199

Administrator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
22,569
Reaction score
2,793
Location
Northern VA
Several posts have already covered the strong possibility that this is a reaction by parents uncomfortable with the reality that violence does exist in the world, and that their children are potential victims. Rape and other related concepts are things they will be exposed to. And earlier than their parents may wish. As shown -- it can be addressed without "crossing the line" into inappropriately detailed explanations. Sadly, they do need to be covered.

Regarding injuries... First -- it may well be a result of the same protective parents planting the idea in the kid's head, especially if they used unfamiliar muscles or did get some mild hurts, like a little "rug burn" from a grab. I'm sure you've had the experience of a child being perfectly fine after a fall until a parent showed concern! There's very little you can do about that -- but what you can leads into my second thought. Especially when I teach outside my normal students (who know and expect {and sometimes brag about!} some minor bumps and bruises in training), I ask two questions: Is anyone hurt? Is anyone injured? And I explain the difference -- hurt is discomfort, minor stuff that'll be fine in a day or an hour. Injured needs a doc to at least check it out.

Especially for your public service self defense classes, I encourage you to start asking those questions, if you don't already. Bluntly -- it'll cover your *** a bit, so that when someone's parent complains, you can honestly say you gave them a chance and asked them to tell you about injuries, and none were reported.
 

WC_lun

Senior Master
Joined
Aug 7, 2010
Messages
2,760
Reaction score
82
Location
Kansas City MO
You handled this well. It really does sound as if this woman wants to eat her cake and have it too. She wants her child to be as prepared as posible for a terrible situation, but don't talk about it or have any realism when it comes to self-defense. Her expectations are off by a mile.
 
OP
shesulsa

shesulsa

Columbia Martial Arts Academy
MT Mentor
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
May 27, 2004
Messages
27,182
Reaction score
482
Location
Not BC, Not DC
Thanks for all the support and feedback, folks.

The first bit of investigation reveals some girls didn't like having their hair pulled. The same girls felt upset and confused because - AND THIS PART IS IMPORTANT, FOLKS -

... THESE GIRLS ARE CONTINUOUSLY ENCOURAGED AND TOLD TO BE NICE, TO BE GOOD, TO BE POLITE ... AND THEY FOUND THIS EXPERIENCE TO BE INCONGRUANT WITH ALL THEY'VE LEARNED ABOUT BEING GOOD PEOPLE. :angel: :shooter:

I wondered if we were going to uncover this little gem.

Ima go lift weights with my ladies now. Y'all have some java and ah ... discuss. *chortle*
 

KELLYG

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
717
Reaction score
21
Location
North Carolina
I think that being a parent, especially in this day and time, it would be a great advantage to instruct their girls on basic self defence. They should be instructed as to who a stranger is and what types of touching are appropriate or inappropriate. Who to tell if someting 'bad' happened, and also give them the freedom to ask questions. I think that a moment of enbarssment (from the parents) at telling the young ones about the birds and the bees at a younger age, is so much easier to deal with than having to explain what happened to them, if such an incident occured.
 

harlan

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Messages
885
Reaction score
42
Location
Massachusetts
While the subject matter can be embarrassing, it should be age appropriate. R.A.D. offers classes for different ages/genders. As an old woman, the ladies and I found the whole 'rape lens' humorous. We were seasoned veterans of life, so to speak. But the mothers there with their 15 year old daughters experienced it differently. And I could not imagine that the concepts, nor the physical techniques, could be taught to responsibly to children younger than that. The test we went through was actually...scary. Affected us all deeply. Not for children.

It must be age appropriate.
 
OP
shesulsa

shesulsa

Columbia Martial Arts Academy
MT Mentor
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
May 27, 2004
Messages
27,182
Reaction score
482
Location
Not BC, Not DC
I think it's poignant to consider that girls are taught to be *nice* and that as a side effect they perceived the act of protecting themselves to be *not nice* and *upsetting.*
 

Carol

Crazy like a...
MT Mentor
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Jan 16, 2006
Messages
20,311
Reaction score
541
Location
NH
[yt]nTh5JzRziHE[/yt]
 
Top