Eyes of Hate

[kidswarrior]

]I've had the best luck with ignoring people and avoiding eye contact. I've received advice to the contrary and found that anything that stimulates the other person in to conversation is usually more trouble than its worth.

Excellent point. While I want to show some humanity, do not want to start a relationship! (Read: give a predator any reason to think I'm weak/prey)

While you're not wrong, I don't think everyone else is either.

I think it really depends on the situation - you get to a point where you have a "feel" for what's the right thing to do.

:idunno: Like I said, I think there's a "feel" to the situation at hand.

Very incisive.

A good point was made above a few posts, there's a lot of thugs out there who have felt little natural respect from people and they think the only way to get it is to enforce it. Showing them a little of that natural respect, by acknowledging them, saying you thought they were familiar or even just smiling is usually enough to gratify that respect craving.

However, when you get someone who is really after you for some reason like with Shesulsa, then the respect does nothing, it's not what they are after, you have to use different tactics then like Shesulsa did.

Thank you, Women of the MA, for reminding us it's a whole different ball game for females in our society. I have to admit I was thinking/writing as a male in my earlier post. :disgust: But these later posts filled in the huge gaps I left very nicely.

 

[Skip Cooper]

Yes, I agree with kidswarrior, things are different for women. While guys are always posturing, whether they know it or not. If a woman tries to follow our advice of maintaining eye contact and greeting the possible threat...this could be misconstrued as interest. And when the interest is not reciprocated, this could lead to more problems.

Excellent point, ladies.

 

[Sukerkin]

A very interesting thread with good points being put across all over the place :tup:.

As I think shesulsa said first, you have to get an instant 'read' on the circumstance and respond as you feel appropriate.

Some 'aggressors' are merely looking for validation of their existence or their 'strength'. If that's what they want, then let them have it. If you allow your own hackles to rise, a fight ensues and you deck them, then all you have done is beat up a fellow human i.e. they wont change because you beat them and it could've all been avoided with a little pleasantry. For myself, this has often amounted to no more than a quizzical look in response to a taunting enquiry and keeping on walking at the same pace.

Others are more tricky. Some want a fight and they don't care who with. With these, if subservience works then I have no compunction about giving them their sense of dominance - it doesn't dent my sense of self worth and saves me having to break limbs (done it once, don't want to do it again).

If subservience will not work then the next step is nonchalance (almost playing stupid, as if you don't understand the situation) - this is tricky as you're seeking neutral unconcern rather than condescension. I'm told by non-MA people who've been with me in such scenarios that I'm not very good at this - apparently I give a distinct aura of "You're not good enough, mate", which is not what I intend at all . All I know is that it hasn't ended in violence; that's good enough for me.

If none of the above seems applicable, then you're in a dangerous circumstance as your 'read' on the other person is that they are seriously intent on harm. It's still worth a play of the "I'm no challenge, you'd have more fun attacking someone else" card but, with this kind of predator, defusion is probably not going to work. Break his leg and run away is, sadly, the best I've come up with under such duress :embarassed deeply:.

 

[INDYFIGHTER]

Preditors always seekout the weakest prey. You never see two 'big guys' pushing each other around. They talk crap behind each others backs and then get in the face of the next little guy that walks by and take it out on him. Running your mouth to in my bar will get you thrown out just as fast as a push or a punch.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

Seems to me that Carol's experience and that of most of the other posters is there simply because of gender. Sucks, but probably true.

Two strange men walk towards each other. There's a subconscious idea in the back of the head "does this fella mean me harm?". A sincere grin and greeting will defuse that idea in most people.

A man and a woman walk towards each other. The woman has a (probably more than subconcious) idea "does this man mean me harm?". Meanwhile, the man's subconcious thought is "can i have sex with this woman?". A sincere grin and eye contact in that scenario could be taken as a yes....which leads to more trouble than it's worth.

Exceptions in all cases, natch, but it probably goes a long way towards explaining the two very different experiences.

Shesulsa's anecdote, for instance, was aggressive eye contact with no friendliness at all. Which answers 'no' to the subconscious question. The same behavior in a man would answer 'yes' to 'does he mean me harm', thus creating a problem.

Just my two cents.

 

[seasoned]

Eye contact does work like a charm. Next time your driving and are trying to get into a line of traffic if you make eye contact and motion nicely, in you go. Try pushing your way in and it is road rage in the making.

 

[seasoned]

Thank you both. :asian: I used that line about a year ago when I was out walking my dog thru my condo complex. A car with two guys, probably in their 20s drove by. Both occupants looked at me as they drove by, so thinking that maybe it was someone I knew or someone that knew me, I looked back. Thinking nothing of it, I kept walking. Next thing I hear is, "Hey, you got a ****in' problem?" I stopped, turned around and saw the passenger out of the car. I replied, "Nope, thought you looked familiar, thats all." I stood there for a minute, thinking I'd get a reply back, but nothing. Now, that could be because that reply was good enough for him, or he saw my dog, a Shepherd/Husky mix, who was also looking back at him, and maybe he figured he didn't want to risk a bite. In any case, I turned around and continued my walk.

Mike

Good one Mike, something about a dog and his best friend. "owner"

 

[Skip Cooper]

Eye contact does work like a charm. Next time your driving and are trying to get into a line of traffic if you make eye contact and motion nicely, in you go. Try pushing your way in and it is road rage in the making.

In Houston, the only way to merge is to push your way in. Otherwise, you will be sitting on the shoulder of the freeway until the traffic clears. I love the "I don't see you looking at me" body posture that these drivers have. They avoid all eye contact...if they don't see me then I don't exist.

 

[thardey]

I think that realizing how people see you is as important as properly recognizing what people are trying to accomplish.

I was a little guy in High School, about 150 lbs. and I had to deal with certain situations in certain ways. If somebody pushed me, I had to push back, or I looked like a target. Now I weigh 240 lbs., and I can usually get away with making eye contact, and giving the "'sup?"

Also, I've been told that I look like a "nice guy" even though I have a shaved head and a dark goatee (I look like a choir boy when I grow out my hair, shave, and wear my glasses). That changes how I respond to people as well, it makes it easier for me show respect to "touchy" guys. Even though they respect my size, I'm not threatening, apparently.

A friend of mine quit shaving his head because people kept telling him it made him "look like a racist" (against Hispanics). I've been to Mexico a couple of times with a shaved head, and the kids there loved it. It's just something about the way we look that makes people feel differently. You have to adjust for it.

I was talking about this to an FBI friend of mine who summed it up quite well:

"Everytime I walk into a room, I take my impressions of who's in there, and I take their impressions of me. How do they see me? Am I a threat? Am I a target? Or am I just another guy?"

 

[thardey]

Also, regarding the eye contact thing --

Sometimes, if I think that someone will react negatively to direct eye contact, I look at their eyes, but not into them, and then look beyond them, as though they simply passed through my line of vision.

That way, they know that I am aware of them, but that they don't interest me.

It's like hunting -- one the first lessons my dad taught me was "never look your prey (a deer, in this case) in the eyes, look at them or around them, but if you make eye contact, then they know you have seen them, and they feel threatened."

 

[bayonet]

Hawaii has a bad methamphetamine problem, according to the police, probably the worst in the nation. A direct look means the fight is on. I have seen it way to many times working security. I have seen the local PD hit a meth head with a taser and then it took five cops to cuff him. I agree with all the aforemetioned suggestions but sometimes a crazy look of your own with a very brisk walk and a don't f*** with me posture also works. Just my 2 cents.